I keep crushing the necks

[chadbr]

On my brass...

CrushedNecksSmall.jpg

Usually just the 1st 2 or 3... but it sure is annoying...

-Is there any good way to get the bump out of a loaded round (I assume not...)

-Any tips on how to get the die adjusted for the 1st few rounds

I'm using a lee press / dies (picture is 25-35 brass) - and I though I followed the instructions...

I've done the same to Colt 45 and 357 brass...

HELP! PLEASE!

[AJMD429]

The gut feeling of many will be just to tell you to chuck the Lee dies and get 'real' ones by another maker* , but I think it is the adjustment that's the issue. It looks like your bullet is still coming down/seating after the crimp is starting, buckling the brass.

Question - is the seating and crimping happening on the same stage/die, or two different steps? What type of Lee dies are you using? The setting methods differ for their different types.

*I've used Lee, Redding, RCBS, Lyman, Pacific, and probably others I've forgotten, but haven't found any cartridges where I've found dies I prefer over the Lee's. In fact, the only problems I've ever had were with RCBS ones.

[Grizz]

I'm guessing you need to trim to length, bevel the necks SLIGHTLY and expand them a little more. Are your bullets oversize?

[JP_TX]

It's just a guess, but I'd say you are seating and crimping in one setting and the crimp is set shorter than needs be. Also you may want to check the tool you're using to trim the length of the case. Both of those things will give you what you got there.

I like the Lee Case trimming tools. If they don't make one for your ammo, you can call them to have one made. Not expensive. It's impossible to not get the right sized case with the Lee trimmer, is why I like them.

Also you might think about seating and crimping in two different runs. Or again, Lee makes a factory crimping tool. Not sure if they make it for your caliber but if not they will for a reasonable price. It's really tough to screw up a crimp with that too.

Good luck
JP

[Griff]

The theory and practical application are the same, regardless of caliber: Proper Rollcrimp Adjustment.

But, as mentioned above... 1st you need to have your brass all trimmed to the same length.

[Malamute]

If you mean how to get the adjustment right when you start, I back off the crimp (die body) a little, slowly seat the bullet carefully and keep checking it til it's seated where I want it, back off the seater, and turn the die body in til it touches the neck with the ram all the way up, then lower the ram and turn the die down slightly til it crimps where I want it. Then run the seater back down onto the loaded round and lock it. Next one should be good, or very close, and not take any time at all.

You can use a loaded cartridge to set the adjustments, but once the die is set, you should be good to go unless your brass grows. You can feel some rounds that crimp hard, don't force them, just crimp by feel instead of bottoming out the ram handle and trim next time you load that bunch.

[Hobie]

If you mean how to get the adjustment right when you start, I back off the crimp (die body) a little, slowly seat the bullet carefully and keep checking it til it's seated where I want it, back off the seater, and turn the die body in til it touches the neck with the ram all the way up, then lower the ram and turn the die down slightly til it crimps where I want it. Then run the seater back down onto the loaded round and lock it. Next one should be good, or very close, and not take any time at all.

You can use a loaded cartridge to set the adjustments, but once the die is set, you should be good to go unless your brass grows. You can feel some rounds that crimp hard, don't force them, just crimp by feel instead of bottoming out the ram handle and trim next time you load that bunch.

Yes, that's what I do. BUT as said before, using the chamfer tool on the case mouth helps a lot as well.

[WinM71]

Yup, gotta be that you have the body of the die set too low (too close to the shellholder at the bottom of the die). When you're ready to load your first one, leave the die backed off considerably, so there's no chance of the neck crimper having an effect. Then screw the bullet-seating stem into the die a little ways, run the bullet & round up into the die & see if it starts to seat. If not, lower the round, screw the seating stem in a bit more, and try again. Do this until it starts to seat the bullet, then several more strokes with a slight screwing-in of the seating stem between each stroke until you get the bullet seated to just the depth you want (likely with the case mouth covering half or so of the bullet's cannelure). Now back the seating stem out a good long ways, and do several more strokes, screwing the die body a little deeper into the press between strokes. Once you get the first feel that the crimper in the die is beginning to contact the casemouth, go VERY slowly on further screwing in of the die between strokes. Take a good close look at the casemouth (I keep a little magnifying loupe on the bench for this) after every stroke. When you're getting a good strong roll crimp, you're where you want to be with the die body, lock it in place with the big lock ring. Then depress the ram to put the round fully into the die again, and screw the seating stem back into the die until it contacts the bullet. You're now good to go.

One note, once you get the die all set up, if you're still buckling the occasional neck, you probably have fairly significant differences in the lengths of your cases. Usually this doesn't happen with a group of cases of the same brand which have been fired the same number of times in the same gun.

Having said all that, the best answer is to buy a Lee Factory Crimp die. It crimps via a collet which it compresses around the casemouth, putting no "downward" pressure on the case.

[stretch]

What everybody else said!

Trim your cases to the same length. If you don't have a trimmer,
then buy the Lee Factory Crimp Die, and seat the bullet and
crimp in two separate operations. The Lee Factory Crimp Die
won't buckle your cases like that.

I always seat and crimp in two separate operations when I can.
It's slower, to be sure, but I get a more harmonious outcome......
Progressive presses with revolver or pistol rounds are the exception.

If the cases all measure the same length, here's how I do it:

1. Seat the bullet to the COAL required, or until the case mouth sits
in the cannelure. I like the case mouth nearly to the top of the cannelure,
as I believe it allows tha maximum amount of case to crimp into the cannelure.
Seat all your bullets for the batch.

2. Unscrew the bullet seater a ways - or just remove it entirely. Then
screw the die body down until it touches the case mouth, plus a quarter of
a turn. Crimp. Screw the die in or out until you get the desired amount of
crimp, then set your lock ring (without, of course, moving the die body.)
Then crimp the rest of your cartridges.

I've never found an IDEAL result with EVERY cartridge doing seating and
heavy crimping in the same operation. Mild taper crimp, no trouble. Heavy
roll crimps for magnum revolvers or levergun cartridges I've always found
work better in a separate operation.

Let us know how you get on!

-Stretch

[6pt-sika]

When I loaded the 25-36 Marlin as well as the 25-20 I got a Lyman 25 cal M Die . That thing sorta bells the case ever so slightly . It usually worked well . I also had a machinist friend make me a hand held belling tool for 22 and 25 cal that I could tap slightly with a plactic hammer . The inside bevel as the others say helps a good bit also .

[3leggedturtle]

You could also get a Lyman "M" die. I have one for every rifle caliber and use it for both cast and jacketed bullets. Have gone so far as to take out decapper rod and put a smaller diameter inside neck expander, (cant think of the term for it) so I aint overworking necks more than need be.

[AJMD429]

Having said all that, the best answer is to buy a Lee Factory Crimp die. It crimps via a collet which it compresses around the casemouth, putting no "downward" pressure on the case.

I agree, BUT take note that the Lee Factory Crimp dies for "pistol" cartridges are made totally differently from the "rifle" ones.

See this thread for the difference - http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=36654

I ordered the RanchDog ones he got as a 'special order' from Lee (you can special-order them from Lee yourself for about the same cost, I think), because I prefer the "rifle" type crimp, even on .44 Mag, .45 Colt, and .357 Mag.

The .32-20 ones Lee makes are of the "rifle" type already.

[chadbr]

Thanks for the detailed replies… very helpful. especially WinM71.

I was doing *almost* the same thing.

I was trying to 'squeeze' the 2 together… i.e. setting the crimp, then turning seater until the bullet was seated at the correct depth. I can see from your procedure why that won't work! Well, it works, but you lose a few!

I wish the manuals had this kind of detail... They gloss over a lot of details.

Printed for future reference with Griff's pictures.

Thanks again, Chad

[earlmck]

Now you've got your crimping procedure worked out Chad, you can salvage most of the scrunched ones. Pull the bullets, dump the powder, put on some fresh lube at the mouth area, and run 'em into the size die far enough to iron out the scrunch. Don't run 'em all the way in or you'll punch out the primer, which isn't necessary. Then just finish as usual. You might loose one that is messed up as bad as the one on the left side of your picture but the others should be OK.

If you don't own a bullet puller you can do just fine with conventional pliers. Put your cartridge on the press, run it up until you can grip it with the pliers (nose pointed down). When you lower the shell the pliers go into the die hole in the press and get tightened there as you lower the cartridge; the bullet should remain with the pliers while the case goes on down. You'll have a little scarring on the bullet but it will be just fine for anything but bench-rest shooting.

[chadbr]

Great idea, I never considered doing that.

I'll give it a go tomorrow!

Thanks again. Chad

[stretch]

Earl, that's a good shade-tree solution for pulling bullets. I like it!

-Stretch

[AJMD429]

I wish the manuals had this kind of detail... They gloss over a lot of details. Printed for future reference with Griff's pictures. Thanks again, Chad

That's one of the reasons a site-visit by an experienced reloader/friend is so valuable.

Please SHARE your experience with reloading (or any other stuff) with anyone/everyone you can - they can't learn it from a book..!

[earlmck]

Please SHARE your experience with reloading

You boys are not gonna' believe this! There must be some kind of virus after us poor old .25 shooters.

Last night as I was describing the "plier pull" method of pulling bullets when you don't have a bullet puller handy I thought I should maybe grab a picture or two. Nah, too lazy and it was already getting kinda' late. So what happens today but I proceed to size and load some 25 Remingtons (rimless version of the 25/35 for those of you not familiar with it). I don't have 25 Rem dies: I use a 250 Savage die set to neck size and to seat bullets and a Lee 260 Rem factory crimp die to crimp. Yes, I'm a cheapskate.

So what does old dummy do but run several of the cases too far into the size die and pooch out the shoulder a bit (the dimensions of the 250 Savage allow this to happen if you don't pay proper attention). And didn't discover this booboo until I thought I'd see how they fed through the gun. Nope -- not even close to chambering. Nothing to do but pull the bullets, dump out the powder, and run them into my 30 Remington die to put the bodies back into proper shape. As you might suspect, after putting that "Factory Crimp" on them they are really tough to pull! Here's the sequence with the pliers:

plierpull7276.jpg

plierpull7277.jpg

plierpull7278.jpg

plierpull7280.jpg

For most loads you don't need to grab the bullet as hard as I did this one with the dang "factory crimp". I really had to grab hard to keep the bullet from slipping in the pliers as I lowered the case with the press handle. So it put in those deep plier scars. And you can see that the shape of the plier nose results in the plier automatically being tightened by the action of the press as it withdraws the cartridge, but I still had to add a fair amount of "squeeze" with my hand to go along with the automatic "squeeze" from the action of the press. I don't think you'll have to squeeze yours this hard, Chad.

I had intended to just write about the "shade tree" plier-pull method. I did not intend to demonstrate the method. But you know how it goes!

[gundownunder]

Sorry folks, I don't like earlmck's way of pulling bullets. I use side cutters to grab the bullet across the top of the press and just dump the bullets into my scrap lead container. Reason being that I would rather trash the bullets than the threads in my press.

[Tycer]

I use tile nippers.

[earlmck]

I would rather trash the bullets than the threads in my press.

Yeah, it looks like that should be a concern, Bob. But I've been using this old press with an occasional "plier-pull" (and a couple of times I did a bunch of them when pulling some military stuff) for over 40 years and there hasn't been any thread damage yet.

And yes, as a high-error (or maybe just a frequent mind-changer) I have an impact bullet puller I usually use. Us old Scotsmen just hate to throw anything away. A couple of times I have shot "plier-pulled" bullets at paper and with the level of precision produced my me and my old rifles there was no detectable deterioration in accuracy.

[chadbr]

Thanks earlmck! Those pictures are worth a 1000 words, although your previous description was excellent.

Bob, I was thinking the same thing as I was reading his description, but if you look in his 2nd picture, it doesn't look like the threads come to the top of the press like they do on mine. Nothing to damage on his.

I was thinking to shield the threads somehow, but I think I'll do as you suggest and just trash a few bullets...

The main thing is I have several clear options now when just a few days ago I had almost no clear options!

I'll get some time this evening to try it out and report back.

Thanks again for everyone time and experience.

Chad

[WinM71]

For pulling bullets "pliers-style", I use a pair of full-sized longnose pliers. I lay the pliers across the top of the press. The jaws are plenty long enough to reach across the die-hole and there's no chance of anything contacting the threads that way. The bullets are, of course, throwaways; given the pretty substantial damage from the pliers. I have an inertial puller, but I've just never been completely comfortable slamming it with a loaded round into something hard. I have used it quite a lot when I couldn't bear to ruin the bullets. I know it's very unlikely a primer would detonate, but it still doesn't feel quite "right".

[chadbr]

WP_000030 (1).jpg

Well, I finally got around to pulling those bullets, using a pair of snippers worked like a champ with minimal bullet damage.

I resized the necks and they came out just fine.

Thanks for all the info guys, I learned a lot.

Happy Easter everyone,

Chad

[wolfdog]

When pulling heavily crimped and military bullets I will back the body of the seater die out untell body does not touch the case, then run the seating stem in untell it will push the bullet a little bit deeper into the case. This will usualy loosen the crimp/ break the miltary sealant and make the bullets much easier to pull by whichever method you use.

[Griff]

Much better chadbr! By jove, I think you've got it!

[walks with gun]

I'm sorry but when I saw the title [ I keep crushing the necks] I right away thought of a couple of my neighbors.

[El Chivo]

I used to have that happen so I always seat smoothly and carefully and if anything takes too much force I stop and check.

I stopped it by backing out the die. I adjust the die with the lever raised all the way and the holder touching the base of the die so the holder makes contact before mouth of the case does.

[horsesoldier03]

I make a dummy round with each type of bullet that I load. Then when I go to set the dies up for the next reloading session, I grab the caliber with the specific type of round that I will be reloading and adjust the dies with the dummy round. It makes it a quick process when you have to reset your dies. Other than that, like all have mentioned, make sure you have them all trimmed to the same length.