Conceal Carry Gun?

tomtex · Post by **tomtex** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:59 pm

What is the best conceal carry hand gun ,and what cal of ammo for cities use? Note: looking small profile gun and ammo that want go threw the human body and hurt others?

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:06 pm

I personally have J Frame S&Ws in .22, 38spc and a tiny Ruger in .380.....they all disappear in my leather vest pocket, or other niche that are handy to get to...

jhrosier · Post by **jhrosier** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:25 pm

I just picked up a Walther PPK in .380.
It is small enough, powerful enough, and looks nice.
I've put about 350 rounds through it and after the first couple of hundred am not having any reliability issues.
I have some Hornady Critical Defense ammo on order. This ammo is said to expand reliably.
The current crop of plastic throwaway pistols are highly regarded in some circles. I wouldn't want one.

Jack

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:30 pm

In a mousegun I carry the Kel-Tec P3AT. No worries about over penetration with the .380 ACP . Go shoot some different guns and see which one you like best. None of the major manufacturers make bad guns.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:41 pm

i'm using a naa Ranger, a break open 5 shot .22mag that is always with me. May not be the most ideal, but it is ALWAYS available and that beats any that are sitting home in a gun safe or in the car or anywhere else except on me

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:43 pm

plastic throwaway pistols

Which are those? Some are horrible and some are carried professionally everyday

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:09 pm

slow2run wrote:What is the best conceal carry hand gun ,and what cal of ammo for cities use? Note: looking small profile gun and ammo that want go threw the human body and hurt others?

ARE YOU TRULY SO LAZY AND INNEPT YOU CANNOT FIND AND READ AT LEAST SOME OF THE 10,000 VOLUMES OF INFORMATION WRITTEN UPON THIS VERY SUBJECT IN THE PAST FIFTY YEARS. DO WE REALLY HAVE TO SPOON FEED YOU LIKE PABLUM TO A BABY ??? AT LEAST GO READ ENOUGH TO ASK AN INTELLIGENT QUESTION; HINT : THERE IS NO-NONE-NADA-ZILCHO " BEST "

THIS IS WHAT WE GET GUYS WHEN SOMEONE MADE THE DECISION THAT NOTHING IS " OFF LIMITS ". THE HECK IT IS NOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT NOW SEEMS 90% IS MOSTLY OFF-LIMITS AND I FOR ONE AM darned SICK AND TIRED OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!! DO WE WANT ONE OF THE PREMIER GUN SITES ON THE 'NET TRASHED BY SIMPLEAZZED QUESTIONS FROM EQUALLY SILLY PEOPLE ???

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:22 pm

I've never seen a plastic pistol I could warm up tp but that's me. Jr. likes his glock. To me guns should be made from blue steel and walnut with only a few substitutions.
J frame Smiths are my first choice but a NAA minis are nice too.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:34 pm

slow2run wrote:What is the best conceal carry hand gun ,and what cal of ammo for cities use? Note: looking small profile gun and ammo that want go threw the human body and hurt others?

There is no such thing as "best". There is only "Best for You".

As for "over-penetration" that is ALSO an entirely subjective issue. A round that will over-penetrate a tweaker won't make it through the first layer of Bubba Beer Gut...

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:39 pm

slow2run , There are as many ideas as to what gun is best and what caliber is best as there are stars in the sky. It is best you do some research before deciding what way to go and don`t just take a pole.

I like the Ruger SP 101 .357 mag. Mine is very handy, concealable and an accurate pistol. I have the 3" one.
I have the Hogue over-molded rubber mono grip on mine.
They are a handful with the factory grip and full house ammo.
the 125 gr. bullet is said to be the best for stopping humans. That said,I prefer the 158`s.

Terry pounced on you quite hard. He does that on occasion.
He is a very intelligent and experienced shooter who sometimes thinks we ALL should know half as much as he.
Please don`t take it to heart.

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:44 pm

I wont go under a .38 special. There are quite a few versions that should please anyone in various smith & wesson J frames. 22s are good to assainate someone, but I aint eager to see how quick it stops a hopped up doper or madman. That pretty much go`s for .380s too.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:48 pm

For a low profile gun that doesn't print when dressed for every day type activity, or if I have to work, I currently carry either a Ruger LCP (.380) or a Ruger LC9 (9mm). When I can wear heavier clothing or a jacket, I carry a Kimber Ultra II (.45ACP).

Each one is reliable, ultra reliable in fact, which is the primary qualifier for a carry or self-defense gun, at least in my book.

Again depending on how I dress, I carry using either a pancake on the strong-side hip, a strong-side IWB, a belly-band or a smart-carry pouch.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:49 pm

"best" is in the eyes of the beholder.

One of my picks:

The gun, not the phone

Keltec PF9. 9mm Very thin, very lightweight and holds 7 + 1 rounds.

If I'm going to use this to defend my/wife's, etc life, it's got to be at least a 9mm IMHO.

A good quality hp ammo will stay in the body or not have much poop left if it does penetrate.

I carry various pistols for different situations though.

Ruger makes a version of this as does several other makers... but this is my pick.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:51 pm

Not to be sarcastic but the best one is the one is you have with you!

For me it's a Sig P238/ .380 ACP.
Fits in my pocket well and I don't feel under gunned as it is extremely accurate.

I'd rather carry my Glock 26 but in my occupation it's a bit large.

jb

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:51 pm

Make mine a Kel-Tec P32

Under 10oz FULLY LOADED w/8rds if you want an always gun(that can fit in your front tee shirt pocket or jeans little front watch pocket this is it.Throw some Grizzly Extremes in it and your good to go.

Just remeber to check for it when you wash the clothes cause you can easily forget.
I also like the P3-AT but 1 less rd and much more recoil with stiff rds and slightly bigger,I like the P32

if you have never picked up a .32ACP that will handle 8rds and the gun only weighs in the 6oz whelm (you need to)
My very favorite handgun of all my handguns.
Every time I pick it up,I smile and say"amazing"

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:05 pm

madman4570 wrote:Make mine a Kel-Tec P32

Under 10oz FULLY LOADED w/8rds if you want an always gun(that can fit in your front tee shirt pocket or jeans little front watch pocket this is it.Throw some Grizzly Extremes in it and your good to go.

Just remeber to check for it when you wash the clothes cause you can easily forget.
I also like the P3-AT but 1 less rd and much more recoil with stiff rds and slightly bigger,I like the P32

if you have never picked up a .32ACP that will handle 8rds and the gun only weighs in the 6oz whelm (you need to)
My very favorite handgun of all my handguns.
Every time I pick it up,I smile and say"amazing"

My .32 is the NAA Guardian... All Stainless and I say the same thing.

I run Grizzly Solid Copper HPs or Fiocchi 60gr SJHPs exclusively.

My NAA is my "Deep Cover"/BUG. (I also have taken it swimming in questionable waters around Gary IN...)

My "Main" CCW is my 2" .357 SP101

I really liked my old AMT .45ACP belly gun (can't remember the name)

I've been known to carry anything from a .22 to a .44 depending on circumstance & clothing.

It's all up to what works best for you.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:18 pm

Tycer wrote:In a mousegun I carry the Kel-Tec P3AT. No worries about over penetration with the .380 ACP . Go shoot some different guns and see which one you like best. None of the major manufacturers make bad guns.

Ruger LCP is a very similar gun and they get high marks.

Oly

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:25 pm

madman4570 wrote:Make mine a Kel-Tec P32

Under 10oz FULLY LOADED w/8rds if you want an always gun(that can fit in your front tee shirt pocket or jeans little front watch pocket this is it.Throw some Grizzly Extremes in it and your good to go.

Just remeber to check for it when you wash the clothes cause you can easily forget.
I also like the P3-AT but 1 less rd and much more recoil with stiff rds and slightly bigger,I like the P32

if you have never picked up a .32ACP that will handle 8rds and the gun only weighs in the 6oz whelm (you need to)
My very favorite handgun of all my handguns.
Every time I pick it up,I smile and say"amazing"

I love my P32. Love it. Buffalo Bore makes some slammin' .32ACP loads also.

As someone said - the "best" CC gun is the one you'll actually carry!

Clint says, "It isn't supposed to be comfortable, it's supposed to be comforting!" OK, fine, but we know how most folks are into discomfort and hassle...NOT.

Just sayin'!

Cheers,
Oly

Cliff · Post by **Cliff** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:53 pm

One of the best loads I have found in both my Walther ppks and Kel-tec 380's the winchester white box of 100 rounds from Wal-mart. Their impact is impressive, a flat nose and I don't see much difference with the hollow points. It is cheap so you can practice with it. at 10 or 15 feet it will do the job. Just an opinion. Good Luck.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:06 pm

http://mouseguns.com/semis.htm

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:06 pm

Cliff wrote:One of the best loads I have found in both my Walther ppks and Kel-tec 380's the winchester white box of 100 rounds from Wal-mart. Their impact is impressive, a flat nose and I don't see much difference with the hollow points. It is cheap so you can practice with it. at 10 or 15 feet it will do the job. Just an opinion. Good Luck.

+100

My EDC

tomtex · Post by **tomtex** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:30 pm

Hay thanks For the comments, has anyone killed a human with the 380 rd what happen, did it stop them, if it did what type or brand of ammo? Also will the 9 mm over power these small guns, what is best type of 9 mm ammo ,that shouldn't over penetrate the body ,in your opinion?

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:39 pm

You can't shoot a 9mm in a 380. a 380 is known as a 9 mm kurtz in most of Europe but that translates to 9mm short. Not the same as 9mm parabellum.

alnitak · Post by **alnitak** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:59 pm

slow2run wrote:Hay thanks For the comments, has anyone killed a human with the 380 rd what happen, did it stop them, if it did what type or brand of ammo? Also will the 9 mm over power these small guns, what is best type of 9 mm ammo ,that shouldn't over penetrate the body ,in your opinion?

Each question you ask is at least a whole thread by itself. On this, I agree with Terry...Google your questions...that's what I did when I researched my decision for months.

Choice of caliber is personal. Many say nothing less than .38; others use a .22lr or .32. Some don't like plastic guns, other do. Etc.

Do some research on the calibers, including ballistics and gel penetration tests. Results comparing the calibers are out there. Many different types of acceptable SD ammo.... Decide on a gun and then you can argue the brand of ammo.

Everyone's opinion is just that...an answer they've determined based upon their own CC requirements...e.g., work conditions, type of dress, age, weather, pistol aptitude, anticipated scenarios, etc., etc.. Whole sites, like Defensive Handguns are dedicated to your questions.

For me, I chose a 9mm subcompact, the PM9. In that category alone there are at least ten contenders, including the CM9, G26, PF9, M&P 9c, XD9c, PPS, LC9, 709Slim, R9 and DB9.

Invest the time...the answers are out there and you will learn more reading the existing literature.

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:28 am

FWIW, I prefer the DA revolver for CC for simplicity and reliability of operation. No safeties, magazine releases or anything else but a trigger to deal with in a stressful situation. If I had the time and money to practice more, I might find one of the semi-autos more appealing.

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:13 am

Since when does the fact that there has been "10,000 VOLUMES OF INFORMATION WRITTEN UPON THIS VERY SUBJECT" mean that it's accurate and worth a spit. I see and read stuff every day that is dead wrong and BS, some of it by gun writers paid for their dribble. Why would one come here to ask a question? Maybe because asking one question here where "most" of the members are fairly level headed, honest and offer good advice can be a 1000 times better than a hundred hours spent elsewhere reading magazines, books and the internet.

All circumstances are different. Buy what you think you need, make sure for yourself it's reliable and pray the the odds continue to be in your favor that you'll never need it.

LK

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:41 am

There are several very good 9x19 comercial defense loads out there - Speer Gold Dots, Remington Golden Sabers, Winchester Black Talons, the old Federal Hydro Shocks and newer ones like Hornady critical defense - which is probably your best bet for not over-penetrating.

I personally prefer either 9mm or 38 Special for defensive use - as a minimum. But I do have a Keltec 32 that I sometimes carry - something is better than nothing.

I like to use what I practice with - Winchester hollowpoint defense ammo - sold at walmart... cheap enough for me to shoot it for practice along with the fmj white box.

cz93x62 · Post by **cz93x62** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:53 am

My usual carry sideiron is S&W Model 19 x 2.5" or S&W 686 x 4", with agency-reqd. W-W 158 JHP 357 loads, or the Glock 23 (40 S&W) stuffed with 180 grain W-W Ranger SXTs, again agency-reqd. Having worked robbery-homicide for a number of years, I've seen a significant number of the 40 cal SXT 180s and 45 cal SXT 230s on and in recipients. After removal during surgery and/or autopsy, these bullets mostly look like ad copy for Winchester ammunition.

No ER or autopsy work with the 357 loads, but I've shot deer and enough large coyotes with the loads to say that they work about as well as the SXT bullets in the autopistol calibers, just less expansion and more penetration. I think very highly of the 357 Magnum caliber as an assailant processor, though the J-frame revolvers it is lately chambered in aren't the best platform for CCW. The FBI's old Model 13 x 3" issue revo was about as good as it gets for a concealable 357, and that M-19 x 2.5" is a close 2nd.

The 4" 686 runs the 158 grainers about 1225-1235 FPS, the 2.5" gives 1150-1175 FPS. From the 4.02" Glock 23 barrel, the 180 grainer goes 925-940 FPS.

A lot of folks who CCW tend to adopt very small pistols that are harder to control and/or chamber anemic calibers for what is an extremely critical tasking--the saving of lives, your own and those of loved ones. The people that cops shoot are the same people citizen CCWs shoot--violent, vicious, drug-addled predators intent upon killing you. Carry enough gun and caliber to manage the threat. 32 and 380 ACP are marking pellets from another age, best used on fleeing felons going away. 38 Special and 9mm are "floor calibers", and in the 9mm use 125 grain-class +P loadings--not those excreble down-loaded 9mm subsonic 147 grain JHP Facklerite Fluffballs. +P in the 38s is a good plan, too.

tomtex · Post by **tomtex** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:57 pm

L_Kilkenny wrote:Since when does the fact that there has been "10,000 VOLUMES OF INFORMATION WRITTEN UPON THIS VERY SUBJECT" mean that it's accurate and worth a spit. I see and read stuff every day that is dead wrong and BS, some of it by gun writers paid for their dribble. Why would one come here to ask a question? Maybe because asking one question here where "most" of the members are fairly level headed, honest and offer good advice can be a 1000 times better than a hundred hours spent elsewhere reading magazines, books and the internet.

All circumstances are different. Buy what you think you need, make sure for yourself it's reliable and pray the the odds continue to be in your favor that you'll never need it.

LK

LK I agree with you!

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:19 pm

I do too. At first I didnt want to insult anyone, but thinking on it, the guru is pretty quick to insult. Why should he get a pass? Any other newby come in here and react like that would be attacked by many like stink on, -- well you know what I mean! I know he is more knowledgable and experianced than me, but I think of my dad. Pa was one of the tallest, toughest well built men in our area, a lot like clint walker, (cheyanne). Never ever did dad try to intiminate someone or throw his weight around. If he got off a plane or train he was the last one off. Dad was one of the most respected people of all that knew him. GET IT TERRY?

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:09 pm

Slow: I just purchased an LC9 for concealed; at 5'10" and 160 pounds, I'm just too "compact" to comfortably conceal an XD45! I'm real happy with it so far. Ran 100 rounds of Winchester bulk 9mm through it like grease, and it is accurate with the Hornady 147-grain TAP. The long trigger takes some getting used to, but that's what weapon familiarization is all about. Hoping to run at least 200 more rounds through is real soon. It's very easy to keep the bullets on a playing card at 7 yards in fairly rapid fire, and fun to slap a small rock at 30 yards regularly, thanks to the very decent sights.

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:10 pm

cz93x62 wrote:A lot of folks who CCW tend to adopt very small pistols that are harder to control and/or chamber anemic calibers for what is an extremely critical tasking--the saving of lives, your own and those of loved ones. The people that cops shoot are the same people citizen CCWs shoot--violent, vicious, drug-addled predators intent upon killing you. Carry enough gun and caliber to manage the threat. 32 and 380 ACP are marking pellets from another age, best used on fleeing felons going away. 38 Special and 9mm are "floor calibers", and in the 9mm use 125 grain-class +P loadings--not those excreble down-loaded 9mm subsonic 147 grain JHP Facklerite Fluffballs. +P in the 38s is a good plan, too.

Cops get a pass and special hero treatment when they respond appropriately to dirtbags who threaten them. An ordinary citizen who acts to defend his life is treated with the same delicate deference as the dirtbag.

While it is only common sense to "carry enough gun" and use a proper ammunition, IMO, real effort is made by prosecutors and the courts to penalize ordinary citizen CCW holders for doing so.

Post by **Hobie** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:46 pm

slow2run wrote:What is the best conceal carry hand gun ,and what cal of ammo for cities use? Note: looking small profile gun and ammo that want go threw the human body and hurt others?

You presume a 100% hit rate with anything. You can't count on that. Different times of year in some places and you NEED a penetrating round other than, say, a Glaser safety slug.

Seriously now, it would help us if you were to set some parameters for the discussion. I'd start with the 5 "W"s...

WHO is going to be using the firearm?
WHAT are they going to be using it against?
WHERE are they going to be carrying it?
WHEN are they going to be able to carry? Put another way, WHEN will they be unable to carry and have to store it and we're back to WHERE.
WHY are is the person going to be carrying?

Then, you should read Masaad Ayoob's "In The Gravest Extreme" and re-examine your questions and THEN come back to us.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:35 pm

My favorite is my AMT .45 acp Backup.

Now before anyone says anything, I just finished an article in Gun Digests "Classic Combat Handguns" in which it was recommended. Of course the article was written in 1998. Mine goes back a "few" more years than that though.

It's small, but not particularly light, and those 230 gr JHP's will likely slow way down, if not stop completely in a human size target.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:48 pm

jeepnik wrote:My favorite is my AMT .45 acp Backup.

Now before anyone says anything, I just finished an article in Gun Digests "Classic Combat Handguns" in which it was recommended. Of course the article was written in 1998. Mine goes back a "few" more years than that though.

It's small, but not particularly light, and those 230 gr JHP's will likely slow way down, if not stop completely in a human size target.

THAT'S IT. I had one of those for a good long while. Great Belly Gun. Will take 1911 mags if they are very minorly modified...

RustyJr · Post by **RustyJr** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:08 pm

My usual CCW handgun is a Glock 23 in 40S&W loaded with 180grn Hornady TAP ammo. My always everywhere gun and backup gun to the Glock is a NAA 22 Magnum. What ever you choose make sure that it fits your needs and that you are proficient with it.

RustyJr

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:01 pm

For CCW you really need several guns, from tiny to big enough to start a gun fight with. Now, keep this one thing in mind, a perp is going to probably be armed with a cheap 9mm or bigger, and it might not be a cheap gun, either, could be stolen or whatever.

Picture yourself at close range, with his gun already in his hand, and maybe even pointed at you. Do you want to start a gunfight with him from that position, with even a 44mag, or 45 auto, let alone a tiny mouse gun?

How about stopping at a lonely gas station, at midnight, in the wrong part of town, (it seems I always end in the wrong part of town when I travel). Well one thing's for sure, when you stop for gas, and you have to pay for it thru a tiny hole in wall, with a drug deal going down in the parking lot, and some of your family in the bathroom, no gun feels to big or too unconfortable at that time of night.

But you still need some little guns, to go with some bigger guns. For deep concealment, I like the little NAA 5 shot 22mag revolvers, Keltec 32's and 380's, Ruger's Little 380 seems to work good, at least mine does. Better yet if you want to hit something with a little bit more accuracy, I really like the discontinued Colt 380 Mustang lite, or even the Colt 380 Gov.

Crank it a notch up, and one of the best and most reliable, but a little harder to carry smaller guns, is the Smith and Wesson J-frame 38 specials. I prefer the hammerless models, as they can be shot from inside a coat pocket etc, without jamming. Not much else can be.

Be a little bit careful of the tiny 9mm's, as reliability is sometimes an issue, but you can have problems with any of the automatics, may sure you can trust yours.

If you like plastic guns, then the Glocks are generally pretty good, with the Glock 19 and 23 models at the top of my list, with the Glock 22 being a good car gun, but definately getting into the bigger duty gun class, however it can be carried CCW with a good holster.

My favorite carry gun, is a 4 to 4-1/4 inch barreled 1911, but I have been shooting them most of my life. My favorite carry gun of all, is a resonably priced Springfield GI Lightweight 4 inch gun. It's a no frills 1911, with tiny sights that won't hang up on clothing, etc with a lightweight alloy frame, but it's been very reliable, and I shoot it well. Don't get too hung up on all of the Laser sights and nite sights, out there for CCW, you probably won't have time to use them anyway, if came down to having to defend yourself.

COSteve · Post by **COSteve** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:40 am

Deleted

tomtex · Post by **tomtex** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:08 pm

Booger Bill wrote:I do too. At first I didnt want to insult anyone, but thinking on it, the guru is pretty quick to insult. Why should he get a pass? Any other newby come in here and react like that would be attacked by many like stink on, -- well you know what I mean! I know he is more knowledgable and experianced than me, but I think of my dad. Pa was one of the tallest, toughest well built men in our area, a lot like clint walker, (cheyanne). Never ever did dad try to intiminate someone or throw his weight around. If he got off a plane or train he was the last one off. Dad was one of the most respected people of all that knew him. GET IT TERRY?

Note I've been here for over ten years, been here though the all the crashes!

tomtex · Post by **tomtex** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:17 pm

Hobie wrote:
slow2run wrote:What is the best conceal carry hand gun ,and what cal of ammo for cities use? Note: looking small profile gun and ammo that want go threw the human body and hurt others?
You presume a 100% hit rate with anything. You can't count on that. Different times of year in some places and you NEED a penetrating round other than, say, a Glaser safety slug.

Seriously now, it would help us if you were to set some parameters for the discussion. I'd start with the 5 "W"s...

WHO is going to be using the firearm?
WHAT are they going to be using it against?
WHERE are they going to be carrying it?
WHEN are they going to be able to carry? Put another way, WHEN will they be unable to carry and have to store it and we're back to WHERE.
WHY are is the person going to be carrying?

Then, you should read Masaad Ayoob's "In The Gravest Extreme" and re-examine your questions and THEN come back to us.

Thanks, will do in the future.

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:54 pm

Glock 27 or S&W 638, both of these options are allowed as back-ups or off-duty for the LE Dept. I hang with--most prefer the Glock 27 (my personal choice, use a Glock 23 mag as a reload)--Glock 27 or a 26 are a big gun in a small package--and what is carried must be qualified with on a quarterly basis. Sometimes a 4" service weapon isn't practical.

Beaker · Post by **Beaker** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:24 pm

I recently aquired a new Ruger SR9c for IDPA, general target, 3 gun comp and possible CCW. I have put 100 rounds through it so far with out a hiccup. So far so good but time will tell how it works out.

Catshooter · Post by **Catshooter** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:40 pm

What an interesting thread.

Terry, I'm pretty sure that if I had posted the exact same post you did (yelling all the way like you did) I'd've gotten body slamed by the next ten or twelve posters and gotten a visit from a moderator. Maybe even slapped by you. And rightfully so, too. Is there some reason you don't need to abide by the forum rules?

slow2run,

The answers to the questions you are asking are very personal, and individually arrived at. One piece of advise I will give you though is this: In finding out what people prefer to carry, I would seperate the answers (if you can) into two groups: first are people who have used a firearm to fight for their life and second: everybody else.

Of course you'll find the vast majority will fit into group #2. Most of those people you will find are the one's who will recomend mouse guns. Those people who fit into group #1, well, you will almost never find one of them recomending anything less than a four inch .38/9mm. Usually more/bigger.

Good luck.

Cat

rimrock · Post by **rimrock** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:23 pm

For me, a wheel gun is what I'd carry. Recently, I had 2 fail to feed--admittedly my fault for not rejecting my poor cast bullets. The poor cast resulted from too slow a drip from the the bottom pour pot, followed by a faster pour. Ended up with a fine line around the tip of both cast bullets which failed by breaking off in the chamber. The ragged edge bullet in wheel gun would have cut a jagged hole, but the semi auto coughed. Not critical as I was punching paper, but made me realize why I still have wheel guns. YMMV. Of course, I've refined my casting procedure to hopefully eliminate such defects.

rimrock

Paladin · Post by **Paladin** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:39 am

I agree with Terry

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:14 am

slow2run wrote:What is the best conceal carry hand gun ,and what cal of ammo for cities use? Note: looking small profile gun and ammo that want go threw the human body and hurt others?

From my experience--it will all penetrate--some more some less

Post by **Hobie** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:11 am

Catshooter (now there's a handle that could be considered inflammatory in some circles

),

Terry's use of all caps is for a reason. Old timers know, new guys just have to grow with that. Just take the content and work with that.

slow2run,

We never, ever, ever, ask anyone if they've ever killed anyone. Not ever. Bad form. We can talk about shootings in general and if a person cares to mention a personal experience, observed or paticipatory, that's fine BUT we never ask.

Further, the questions you ask are so broad in scope that it is obvious you DO need to do a lot of reading before asking any questions. There are literally thousands of pages on the subject and it isn't reasonable to expect them to be rewritten here.

lthardman · Post by **lthardman** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:00 am

I guess it is different for everybody. But IMHO a gun that does not fit my hand or that is too small for me to shoot more than once accurately won't do me much good. Usually the problem is my fault and not a flaw in the gun. And while a Kel Tec P3AT works for some people, it did not work for me. I now have a Para USA LDA in 9MM and while a more difficult concealed carry it works for me. In an emergency, at least I would have more confidence that I was proficient in what I was reaching for.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:21 pm

Hobie wrote:
slow2run wrote:What is the best conceal carry hand gun ,and what cal of ammo for cities use? Note: looking small profile gun and ammo that want go threw the human body and hurt others?
You presume a 100% hit rate with anything. You can't count on that. Different times of year in some places and you NEED a penetrating round other than, say, a Glaser safety slug.

Seriously now, it would help us if you were to set some parameters for the discussion. I'd start with the 5 "W"s...

WHO is going to be using the firearm?
WHAT are they going to be using it against?
WHERE are they going to be carrying it?
WHEN are they going to be able to carry? Put another way, WHEN will they be unable to carry and have to store it and we're back to WHERE.
WHY are is the person going to be carrying?

Then, you should read Masaad Ayoob's "In The Gravest Extreme" and re-examine your questions and THEN come back to us.

EXCELLENT advice.

Oly

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:35 pm

http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/pistols/p-11/

An outstanding little 9mm that seems to get no love these days.

Oly