Father-in-Law has a new nickname: "Sparky"

[Triggernosis]

He was electrocuted while working in the attic yesterday when he bumped against a cast iron plumbing vent pipe that has somehow become charged. Did the shimmy-shake for over 3 minutes before my neice could get the power cut off. Unconscious, bleeding from the mouth, CPR....and a very expensive helicopter flight to the trauma center. He was trapped in the attic for over an hour before they could get him out.
75 yr. old ornery bastid is probably going home today, though. He's one lucky dude that someone was there that heard him yell initially.

[Mike D.]

I spent 32+ years in the high voltage line construction industry and worked hands on with energized circuits of 2400 to 500,000 volts. Far more people are killed every year by "ordinary" 120V household wiring. Incorrect, or in his case probably worn wire that was contacting the vent pipe, circuitry is usually the culprit. If the home wiring is up to date and correctly protected by proper breakers this event would likely not have happened. Unfortunately, many older homes retain the ancient knob and tube wiring that is a known killer due to it's often overloaded capacity and failing insulation.The old habit of "saving a few cents" by placing pennies behind old screw in fuses to stop them from burning out is also responsible for electrocutions and house fires. NEVER scrimp on home safety by letting old and unsafe wiring remain in service. It may cost a lot of money to rewire a home, but what value do you put on your family's lives?

[Triggernosis]

Mike,
That's exactly what they have! That is, old wiring, with old fuses, and likely overloaded breakers. House was built in late 50's. I know he told me not too long ago that he couldn't even purchase the kind of breakers he has anymore. There's no telling about that house.......

[Mike D.]

Mike,
That's exactly what they have! That is, old wiring, with old fuses, and likely overloaded breakers. House was built in late 50's. I know he told me not too long ago that he couldn't even purchase the kind of breakers he has anymore. There's no telling about that house.......

I fear that he may have old Zinsco breakers that are known for wearing out and being impossible to replace. Bad JUJU!

[AJMD429]

My house I built initially to convert later to a barn/workshop, so enclosed ALL the wiring in metal conduit (due to exposed masonry, etc.). Now most is covered by paneling and drywall, but it's nice to have that extra layer of security. Every room has a shared regular lighting/outlet circuit, plus a 20 amp utility circuit for that room only.

[Mike D.]

My house I built initially to convert later to a barn/workshop, so enclosed ALL the wiring in metal conduit (due to exposed masonry, etc.). Now most is covered by paneling and drywall, but it's nice to have that extra layer of security. Every room has a shared regular lighting/outlet circuit, plus a 20 amp utility circuit for that room only.

A little thoughtful "overbuild" of your circuitry is a great idea and can pay off in spades in the future. When we redid our wiring 20 yrs ago I left plenty of room in the panel for future add ons and put the circuit to the garage UG with it's own 50 amp panel. There are only 2 breakers in it at present, though, one for lights and the other plugs. Not much out there but a couple florescent lights, outdoor water features, irrigation and a lonely freezer that's only a few months old.

[draperjojo]

Zinsco or the old "Federal Pacific", which we referred to as "disconnects", not breakers....lol

[Ysabel Kid]

[Ysabel Kid]

[Mike D.]

Zinsco or the old "Federal Pacific", which we referred to as "disconnects", not breakers....lol

FPs pull out and really can't be called "breakers". Fused "disconnects" maybe, but to me a disconnect is a solid opening point without a fuse. Some FPs are exactly that, though, with slide in contacts.

[new pig hunter]

Trigger,

first question: what's a 75 yr-old dude doing in the attic ??

I say that in semi-jest, with lots of "oh my goodness" attitude. A couple of years ago I caught my 90 yr-old father on the 4th rung of a rickety ladder leaned up against a tree .... wielding a small gas-powered chain saw with one hand while trimming some limbs. He survived.

Sheesh, these old people can get into more trouble than any 5 yr-old I've ever met.

Cheers,

Carl

[williamranks]

Get the house checked thoroughly.
The first time I saw energized plumbing was 40 years ago.
The neutral coming into the house from the overhead lines had broken and the plumbing became the only neutral path for the whole house. (All metal plumbing is required to be connected to the fuse panel neutral bar)
The water line coming in from the street had a leak and when the guy from the water company cut it off to replace the damaged section he became the neutral path for the whole house, sitting in a wet trench. He didn't make it.

[piller]

Part of the problem with the 110 volt circuitry is that it will cause the muscles to contract and hold the person in place on it, and the alternating of the current makes it worse. Whereas, the high voltage sources will heat the water inside the skin cells to a vapor and cause an explosion which blows the victim away from the power source. Or, at least, in most cases. There are anomalies. Several years ago, one of my Pharmacy Patients/Customer was electrocuted while installing fluorescent fixtures in a warehouse in the 100 degree heat. He was sweating and making good contact, when some darned Fool down below cut off the lock that had been placed over the circuit breaker box and switched on the lights, because he didn't think that as a District Manager for the company that owned the warehouses, that he sould have to use a flashlight to look around in an empty warehouse. The lock was only a heavy duty cable tie, and it broke one of the knife blades on the DM's knife. My customer was given permanent disability as his spine was damaged by the contractions to the point that he is now in a wheelchair. The DM was charged with criminal negligence, convicted, and fired. What helped convict the DM was that he had to use a second blade on his knife to cut through the cable tie, and the scratches on the outside of the circuit breaker box showed that there was intent to remove the lock.

Even 12 volts can harm you if there is enough amperage behind it. I once made contact with a combination wrench to the positive terminal and the frame of my car. There is a nice big area where the metal was burned off the wrench by the arc. I was 14 and was tightening the battery cables on my car. I was fortunate that I jerked the wrench out of the way very quickly and dropped it on the ground. That wrench was hot! If 12 volts can burn metal, it can do damage to you if the situation is just right.

[Mike D.]

Yes, high voltage electrical contact will throw you away, but the current uses your bones as the path of least resistance and what are known a 4th degree burns result. This does not happen in all cases, but when a person offers a solid ground potential for the voltage and amperage to travel to this is the likely result. In many cases death happens quite quickly due to burns to vital organs and cessation of heart activity. I have seen a number of death associated with HV contact and it often is not pretty.

One one occasion I was called to a scene where a falconer had found his way up a pole to attempt the retrieval of his bird that was dangling by it's jesses from one phase a 21 KV 3 phase circuit. He had reached for the bird and offered a sufficient path to ground for the current. As I recall, the circuit was running around 400 amps at that location. Both he and the falcon were killed instantly and he fell a few feet where his belt became hooked on a pole step. It was my job to get his fried body to the ground by climbing up and rigging a handline to him and dropping him to the ground. He was burned grotesquely, a bad ending to a real bad decision on his part. Others were worse, but any death as a result of HV electrocution is not for the faint of heart to witness.

[olyinaz]

I fear that he may have old Zinsco breakers that are known for wearing out and being impossible to replace. Bad JUJU!

Mike, can you tell me when those Zinsco breakers that are bad were used? They still make electrical equipment today no?

Here's an eye opener:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMV1jmDn3o4

Thanks,
Oly

[olyinaz]

He was electrocuted while working in the attic yesterday when he bumped against a cast iron plumbing vent pipe that has somehow become charged. Did the shimmy-shake for over 3 minutes before my neice could get the power cut off. Unconscious, bleeding from the mouth, CPR....and a very expensive helicopter flight to the trauma center. He was trapped in the attic for over an hour before they could get him out.
75 yr. old ornery bastid is probably going home today, though. He's one lucky dude that someone was there that heard him yell initially.

Wow!! Glad to hear he's okay. Sheesh, talk about not seeing that one coming.

Oly

[piller]

My father worked with 3 phase electric motors to run the pumpjacks at well heads. He used a Simpson meter all the time. Like most people who work with electricity, he was extremely careful. There were a few people he knew of who made a mistake, and it usually takes only one. Your Father in Law is very lucky. I would bet he is in a lot of pain right now from the muscle contractions.

[stretch]

"Sparky?"

"Lucky."

Maybe, "Really Lucky."

His wife can call him "Mr. Hot Pants" with that tone of
scorn in her voice that only a wife can muster for the
less-than-successful home impovemnet adventures of
her husband. (Yep, I've heard it, too.....)

He's a lucky fella - ya'll be careful out there, y'hear?

-Stretch

[Triggernosis]

Yes, I, too, asked him what the hell he was doing up there. But you know how we old men can get.....

He went home yesterday and back to the burn center today. The electricity cooked his arm pretty good (3rd deg. burns UNDER the skin)...and now his face a lips are blistering (that was the entry point - the exit point was basically the rest of him, and particularly his arm, since he fell down on his stomach with his face still against the pipe).

And yes, he's now complaining about being really sore and tired.

Schit, that old codger will likely be splitting wood by the end of next week!

[Mike D.]

I fear that he may have old Zinsco breakers that are known for wearing out and being impossible to replace. Bad JUJU!

Mike, can you tell me when those Zinsco breakers that are bad were used? They still make electrical equipment today no?

Here's an eye opener:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMV1jmDn3o4

Thanks,
Oly

The old Zinscos made from the late 1950s to early 70s are the problem. Of course, the longevity of any breaker is an unknown, especially if they are routinely maxed out or overloaded. Zinscos are now roughly 3 times as expensive as Square D or other comparable brands. There was a "Z" panel on this place when we bought it and I saved all the good breakers after installing the new Square D set up. One of our buds also had one and he gave me the old breakers. Our mountain cabin has a "Z" that was put in in the 60s, but the load is so low that there have been no problems. I have several replacement breakers to use in the event than any of them fail.