Accident at the Reno Air races

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:31 pm

Less than an hour ago, Galloping Ghost, a P-51D flown by Jimmy Leeward, augured in at over 300 MPH near the grandstands during today's Gold Unlimited race. The plane exploded into tiny bits and many folks were injured and perhaps some dead. The horrific crash cost Leeward his life for sure, but since it's breaking news little is being said at this moment about how serious and to what extent the injuries are. Debris is scattered over a large area and may were hurt. The place is still in chaos., with triage ongoing. Pray for all involved.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:40 pm

bummer, prayers sent.

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:53 pm

Terrible!

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/09/ ... air-races/

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:10 pm

wow...prayer sent..........80 year old pilot

Aussie Chris · Post by **Aussie Chris** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:21 pm

That is shocking! Hope things are not as bad as they seem at this point.

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:34 pm

I left right after seeing the video on local TV and just returned. What a situation. I can only imagine the docs at Washoe Med being overwhelmed by the number of injured. Washoe is one of only three trauma centers in N. Ca and NV. The others are Enloe in Chico and U.C.Davis in Sacramento.

My wife will never go to the races again. The last time we went there were two crashes.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:38 pm

My eldest is a Reno cop. I've called, no answer. Likely he as called in if he wasn't on duty. I left a message, if he gets back with more news I'll post it.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:47 pm

Prayers going out.......very sad to hear of this.

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:04 pm

Raced too long - killed how many people?

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:14 pm

I have a brother in law like that, 73 years old and has no business flying any more. Won't give up his ticket.

gak · Post by **gak** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:45 pm

Looks relatively up to date and pretty bad.
http://news.mobile.msn.com/en-us/articl ... 695&afid=1
This or another report mentioned "mass casualties."

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:51 pm

Old Savage wrote:Raced too long - killed how many people?

Yes, 80 years old and still racing is nuts and the promoters will probably face law suits over it. But being a libertarian at heart I guess I'd say, "You buy your ticket and take the risks!" And the risks are fairly known - lots of crashes at Reno over the years - but maybe this will remind people.

What's more troubling to me is that the lines of flight were set up such that a massive failure of either the equipment or the pilot could lead to the aircraft spinning into the crowd. Huh? Someone signed off on that?? Would seem to be basic Safety 101 in an airshow like this if you ask me, but whadda I know - I've never flown shows or demos.

Oly

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:52 pm

Mike D. wrote:Less than an hour ago, Galloping Ghost, a P-51D flown by Jimmy Leeward, augured in at over 300 MPH near the grandstands during today's Gold Unlimited race. The plane exploded into tiny bits and many folks were injured and perhaps some dead. The horrific crash cost Leeward his life for sure, but since it's breaking news little is being said at this moment about how serious and to what extent the injuries are. Debris is scattered over a large area and may were hurt. The place is still in chaos., with triage ongoing. Pray for all involved.

Friend of mine texted me that he was at the show about two hours before the crash! I was pretty doggone concerned when I saw the news, but he answered a text query quickly. Said it was pandemonium. Very bad crash.

Oly

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:08 pm

olyinaz wrote:
Old Savage wrote:Raced too long - killed how many people?
Yes, 80 years old and still racing is nuts and the promoters will probably face law suits over it. But being a libertarian at heart I guess I'd say, "You buy your ticket and take the risks!" And the risks are fairly known - lots of crashes at Reno over the years - but maybe this will remind people.

What's more troubling to me is that the lines of flight were set up such that a massive failure of either the equipment or the pilot could lead to the aircraft spinning into the crowd. Huh? Someone signed off on that?? Would seem to be basic Safety 101 in an airshow like this if you ask me, but whadda I know - I've never flown shows or demos.

Oly

A man has to know his limitations...including ageing. The whole affair was a first class foul up. Oly, you are right IMO. There comes a time when a man has to quit thinking he's bulletproof. The ego thing. Pilots have it bad. So do martial arts people...that's why I retired last year.

Think I'll go fishing................I can't foul that up too bad and I won't kill a lot of innocent people doin' it either.

LB

Thunder50 · Post by **Thunder50** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:10 pm

Prayers out for everyone.

Looks like it might be pretty bad. Pilot here also. Been to Reno before. Hope I didn't wait too long to make it back.

Might be the end of Reno races as we know them

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:29 pm

I have read other blogs along with this one. The pilot was 74 not 80. But if he was 30 what would be said? No one knows he even was to blaim or what really happened. I did read one report he radio`ed mayday just before the crash. That sounds mechanical to me, not a age thing if so. I read where he had altered the plane recently by bobbing each wing by 5 feet. That sounds pretty extream to me. Also he had done something radical to the cooling system. There was no fireball or even fire that I could see. That looked highly suspect to me. By the way I am 70, and about to bring my license up to date after a many year layoff. This accident aint helping me on the homefront !

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:49 pm

What a horrible thing......and, btw, I'm so tired of the blame game. We can only guess what happened.

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:19 am

Prayers up for all involved.

Cruise · Post by **Cruise** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:16 am

I am 70 as well. I don't feel I have lost my touch: either with the propeller on the top or in front. It was an unfortunate incident but not a reason to close down the Reno Air Races. There will always be people who push the envelope and people who want to watch them.

The last time I was at Reno was when my son was a member of the Golden Knights and the solo jumper with the American Flag + commentator for their performance. It was an experience I will never forget. I rode in the Army jump aircraft on another day which ended in a faux race with a C-130 around the course. The show announcer created the color commentary. Who could not marvel at Bob Hoover's performance at his "advanced" age.

We do this stuff whether it is at Reno or a skate park in our community. Let's not go overboard with the armchair critiques. Accept the risk for what it is and your part in it and move on. The folks in the chalets down front were there because they wanted to be. The infield at the Kentucky Derby is just as crowded. Celebrities are in the stands at the Lakers ball games. Everyone wants to be close to the action. Isn't this a part of American exceptionalism? I could go on with analogies to a bunch of other hard chargers in other endeavors and those that want to be a part of it . . . Seals, LRRPs, Delta Force, Rangers, FBI, Secret Service and all of the other groups of self-selected members. They accept the risks and move on.

"When you are green, you grow. When you are ripe, you rot."

Flame on . . .

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:28 am

The idea that people at spectators events are knowingly accepting the risk of death is I do not believe a reasonable concept. What about children there? If that is the case then the Reno Air Races are a threat to public safety as is now obvious. The public should be able to trust that the risks have been managed to the point that they are negligible. Apparently that it not the case here and has not been the case at other air shows at times. The risk should be all on the part of those who participate and profit. But, the courts and the lawyers here will likely take a large toll on this for not managing the risks for those they invited/enticed to see the event. Maybe age played no part but on the face of it most will suspect that it did and oldsters are notorious for not seeing their limitations in this respect. A 94 year old ran somebody down in this town last week after two previous accidents of course, in Calif people will walk out in front of cars expecting them to stop. The whole thing is a sticky wicket.

mod71alaska · Post by **mod71alaska** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:13 am

Old Savage wrote:The idea that people at spectators events are knowingly accepting the risk of death is I do not believe a reasonable concept. What about children there? If that is the case then the Reno Air Races are a threat to public safety as is now obvious. The public should be able to trust that the risks have been managed to the point that they are negligible. Apparently that it not the case here and has not been the case at other air shows at times. The risk should be all on the part of those who participate and profit......

Well said, OS. You should be a lawyer! Or are you?

The accident is a tragedy. Beyond OS's comment on risk, I'll reserve further opinion until the facts are known.

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:29 am

They show'ed photos of the left elevator coming apart this morning. It also seems that the pilot managed to avoid the greater part of the crowd.

As to aging... I've seen some 50-year olds that were plumb wore out and 80-year olds who were in pretty good shape physically AND mentally. MANY commercial pilots aren't those 30-year olds and they have a pretty good safety record. Let's see what the investigators get from this.

BTW, no flaming here. Let's remember that.

PS - I should add that the FAA apparently has approval on the race course layout and that the risk factor is well-enough known that some schools have at least closely evaluated the risk in sending field trips to the races.

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:56 am

Last evening news report still listed his age as 80, but he was ONLY 74. We won't know a thing concrete until the investigation is completed, so no blame will be laid.

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:37 am

As usual, the press can be counted on to get it wrong. In the no-holds-barred game that is aging there's a world of difference between 74 and 80 in my opinion. But in any case, it does look like mechanical failure is going to be the problem here. The age debate will only add spice in the courtroom because after all, how is one to prove anything regarding age if the pipes are clean and the mind still sharp? It is, as Doc said, a very sticky wicket!

Oly

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:42 am

You could say that the mandatory age limits are like the zero-tolerance policies. Simple rules for simpletons. Also, why would this not also apply to driving automobiles, operating farm machinery, even to being a practicing physician...?

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:09 pm

There is no good across the board answer here and he would have been 75 in a few weeks if we are looking at age lines. I have a patient whose condition I know well who is 90 and sharp as a tack and still uses here electric chain saw. Others as has been said much younger not so much. Then we get into the liability of flying an airplane that old at those speeds over or near a crowd. By the nature of the situation some judgement went very wrong. You see people taking crazy risks to stand by the road on the Baja but this is an event run by professionals. We will see how the liability shakes out here.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:12 pm

My boy didn't respond, but said from what his friends on the force that were there said, it wasn't all that chaotic. Folks followed directions and stayed out of the way of the emergency responders.

As to whether the fellow was too old to fly, remember that pilot undergo regular flight physicals. If he wasn't in condition to fly, his ticket would have been pulled. Oh, and as I can attest (my cousins boy died in a plane crash a bit ago), death in airplanes has no discrimination on age. But, both this pilot and my cousins son died doing something they enjoyed. I hope I get to go out that way.

In regard to the comments about danger to the crowd. If you attend air races, you know things happen. Air races and air shows require the spectators to be somewhat near the action. As was said, you buy your ticket and take your (well documented) chances.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:39 pm

And on the other side of the coin, you sell your tickets and you take your chances - on the people you let perform and their maintenance - let's see what the courts say and if they get sued out of business. There are going to be a passel of very expensive medical cases here.

rbertalotto · Post by **rbertalotto** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:50 pm

risks have been managed to the point that they are negligible.

The hard part is defining "negligible"..............Pretty boring world if we removed every event where every few years there is an accident.........Millions of people attend air shows. Less than 50 deaths to spectators since man started to fly..........is that negligible?

I bet there are more deaths coming and going in cars to and from airshows.........

Or you could be going to a state fair and have the staging collapse on you................Was the risk managed?

Life is full of risks..........when your time is up, it's up!

Let's just pray that the politicians don't get all gooey and start passing more unnecessary laws.

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:18 pm

OK...I understand the arguement of the age thing. Kenpo taught me that "action reaction keys my next action", Ed Parker. I can attest that at age 62 my response time has markedly increased. I would have to use guile & deceit to defeat a much younger opponent. Where I could hit a heavy bag 15 times a second when younger, I can muster maybe 8-10 times if I practice heavily for a while.

The downgrade starts at about age 30 in terms of ones metabolism. If you train, then the slope down is lifted up, however, there is still a negative gradiant. Reaction times continue to degrade thruout life. This is fact.

I copied a closeup photo of the plane with the left rear wing missing parts of its' trimtab. You can get the photo on the Nevada Appeal.com website.

Will one of you who is a pilot (I''m not) please inform me as to how this would cause such a drastic response in the planes flyability? Would he still have some control without those small pieces at the rear edge of the wing?

Also, in the pic is a small puff of smoke along the fusiloge (sp?) just behind the left frt. wing that seems to trail slightly when the photo was taken.

There is no doubt in my mind that the pilot did the best that he could.

My original opinion still stands....with respect.

LB

quietman · Post by **quietman** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:46 pm

Update
http://news.yahoo.com/reno-police-9-peo ... 54782.html

Sick of everyone complaining about the pilot's age. If the pictures do show the trim tab missing then there was something mechanical going on. The tab alone won't cause that kind of control issue but if it came off, it's the sign of a much more serious problem.

As for the pilot, here's a report from one individual.

Linville said after the plane went straight up, it barrel rolled and inverted downward, crashing into an area where at least 20 people were sitting.

"If he wouldn't have pulled up, he would have taken out the entire bleacher section," and hurt thousands of people, Linville said.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:13 pm

OK, so who was responsible for the maintenance of this airplane and was it inspected by the Reno Air Races as approved to compete? There are sharks in the water here and they will be going after the venue and Leeward Ranch or however those interests couch themselves. There are apparently 56 to 70 parties here and they will all have top lawyers to go after all the holdings of Leeward and who ever else is involved. Govt entities are protected by a cap but are private interests. And this will be looked at not with the friendly almost excuse making here in some cases but in the most negative light for those involved.

As we speak, guaranteed, all the injured parties are being solicited by the biggest liability firms in the country. Deep pockets, mega bucks coming at the parties.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:25 pm

Old Savage wrote:OK, so who was responsible for the maintenance of this airplane and was it inspected by the Reno Air Races as approved to compete? There are sharks in the water here and they will be going after the venue and Leeward Ranch or however those interests couch themselves. There are apparently 56 to 70 parties here and they will all have top lawyers to go after all the holdings of Leeward and who ever else is involved. Govt entities are protected by a cap but are private interests. And this will be looked at not with the friendly almost excuse making here in some cases but in the most negative light for those involved.

As we speak, guaranteed, all the injured parties are being solicited by the biggest liability firms in the country. Deep pockets, mega bucks coming at the parties.

Replace your terms with "guns" and "crime" and "shootings" and you sound like....GASP....can't say it

Stuff happens and sharks will be there to make money off of it.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:32 pm

Where I would be concerned here is removing or defeating safeties or manufacturing the means to do so. If something were to happen. I have been close to one of these liability occurrences for 5 years and the emotions fly and they get very unpredictable. If you have any accumulated wealth and are involved it can be very "unpretty". I think the Leeward heirs are in for 3 to 5 years of legal hell.

Thunder50 · Post by **Thunder50** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:33 pm

Never flown a P-51 so really can't comment on what a loss of trim tab would do to controlability in that aircraft. Plane might have a tendency to climb or descend without the tab. Could be a "pitch up" if tab was lost and he rolled the aircraft to descend and figured that it was uncontrollable and he was going to crash, so decided to deliberately crash to where the least amount of damage/injury might occur. Don't know.

The "smoke" you see might be steam/hot coolant venting as IIRC, the radiatory is in the scoop in the underside (belly) of the aircraft.

Prayers for all involved

samb · Post by **samb** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:01 pm

Lever Bob,
In the photo the trim tab is missing, in most airplanes the trim tab can be adjusted on the elevator to lighten control forces in the pitch moment. The pilot pulls back on the stick or yoke and the airplane noses up, the pilot then trims off the back pressure required to keep the elevator in the position required to keep the nose up. In essence the trim tab allows you to trim the airplane so that no control force is required to continue in a climb or descent.

I talked with a buddy who was about 150 feet away from impact zone, he said it was pretty obvious as he pulled up, there was something wrong with his tail as the airplane had lost a lot of stable flight characteristics and it apeared that a high speed stall caused one wing to stop flying because it changed direction faster than anything he has ever seen.

I was just very happy he answered his phone.

LeverBob wrote:OK...I understand the arguement of the age thing. Kenpo taught me that "action reaction keys my next action", Ed Parker. I can attest that at age 62 my response time has markedly increased. I would have to use guile & deceit to defeat a much younger opponent. Where I could hit a heavy bag 15 times a second when younger, I can muster maybe 8-10 times if I practice heavily for a while.

The downgrade starts at about age 30 in terms of ones metabolism. If you train, then the slope down is lifted up, however, there is still a negative gradiant. Reaction times continue to degrade thruout life. This is fact.

I copied a closeup photo of the plane with the left rear wing missing parts of its' trimtab. You can get the photo on the Nevada Appeal.com website.

Will one of you who is a pilot (I''m not) please inform me as to how this would cause such a drastic response in the planes flyability? Would he still have some control without those small pieces at the rear edge of the wing?

Also, in the pic is a small puff of smoke along the fusiloge (sp?) just behind the left frt. wing that seems to trail slightly when the photo was taken.

There is no doubt in my mind that the pilot did the best that he could.

My original opinion still stands....with respect.

LB

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:18 pm

jeepnik wrote: As to whether the fellow was too old to fly, remember that pilot undergo regular flight physicals. If he wasn't in condition to fly, his ticket would have been pulled.

Not true at all. FAA physicals are only designed to ensure that a pilot will not drop dead or pass out while flying, there are NO cognitive tests. A pilot with dementia, for example, could easily bluff his way through an FAA physical. Not saying this guy had any issues! Just pointing out the truth about pilots and FAA physicals.

Cheers,
Oly

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:27 pm

samb wrote: I talked with a buddy who was about 150 feet away from impact zone, he said it was pretty obvious as he pulled up, there was something wrong with his tail as the airplane had lost a lot of stable flight characteristics and it apeared that a high speed stall caused one wing to stop flying because it changed direction faster than anything he has ever seen.

I was just very happy he answered his phone.

I would like to know if he was in the turn when everything went bad. If so, it's possible that high speed stall under heavy load on a clipped wing P-51 might be a near instantaneous event. Eventually they will have a good hypothesis about this.

I hear you on the "I was just very happy he answered his phone" part - I had a friend from work at the event also and he answered a text message promptly which was a huge relief.

Unfortunately, I've just learned (while typing this) that one of my co-workers lost his son at the event. I cannot fathom the depths of their loss. Prayers up.

Best,
Oly

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:50 pm

Read this earlier today. Very sad. Prayers up for those injured, and the nine who lost their lives.

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:51 pm

I too mourn the loss, humans are imperfect & produce imperfect things. Having made a few mistakes myself I can emphathize.

In Hobie's photo I noticed two holes at the left wing rear wing root with the vapor trailing. As I have come to understand, they redesigned the cooling system including relocation of the radiator, thus losing the radiator bottom cowling. This eliminated the "belly" of the original mustang. Were those holes originally there as part of the design? Or, did something blowup in the rear & cut hydraulic or control wires? Flyers...help me sleep tonight.

My apologies if I'm digging into this too much....it's a problem & something as horrendous as this will not let my mind rest until I figure it out. The loss of a superb pilot, young people with a future, old people with yet many years to enjoy....what a tragedy. Sometimes things like this drive me batty.

LB

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:17 pm

The pilot had bobbed 5 feet off each wing recently. That alone would make the plane very squirrely. The elevator trim aids the pressure needed to fly the plane. I once had a trim cable break on me and it took a lot of forward pressure on the wheel to control and land it. With the stubby wings a stall or high speed stall would occur at a much higher air speed, and they already were pushing way beyound normal flight. I had also read that he was trying some new approach to the cooling system, called total loss? I dont understand that one. Suppose to be like the space shuttle. The P51 engines are liquid cooled. I really suspect bobbing the wing span 10 feet had to be a huge factor.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:05 am

They were hyping the speed it would produce. Read down.

http://www2.leewardairranch.com/racing

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:40 am

LeverBob wrote:In Hobie's photo I noticed two holes at the left wing rear wing root with the vapor trailing. As I have come to understand, they redesigned the cooling system including relocation of the radiator, thus losing the radiator bottom cowling. This eliminated the "belly" of the original mustang. Were those holes originally there as part of the design? Or, did something blowup in the rear & cut hydraulic or control wires? Flyers...help me sleep tonight.

I suspect, given the parts obviously gone missing in the photos circulating, that what occurred was structural - something broke from stress, strain, or fatigue. I suspect the vapor you see trailing is the cooling system sans radiator. If you think about it, you can cool the liquid in the cooling system and recirculate it for engine cooling or you can just let a fresh supply of liquid boil off and suck the heat out of the engine that way. Losing heat to vaporization is a grand way to draw heat out of something and if you know you only need to run for X number of minutes all you need is enough gallons of coolant to get you through the race. I don't see how the cooling system could be involved in this in any way, but that's just my theorizing without information...and you know how useful that is.

Oly

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:25 am

Oly....you're pretty astute Pard. I researched the cooling system on the plane. It was a "blow off system" and was as you described. You nailed it to a tee...kudos to you Pard & thanks. It couldn't have been a reason for the accident.

Leeward had only microseconds to respond & he did. What is driving me nuts is why he had only minor control. He had power from his Allison engine, but couldn't control the planes attitude. Either the plane mechanically couldn't respond or he couldn't.

Maybe Bill is right...Leeward had a high speed stall due to the modifications of the wings. Had a mechanical mishap & it proved fatal. Just like a hotrod. Or he had a heart attack or stroke & couldn't respond. I guess we'll never know. Thanks Bill........

I didn't get to fly...couldn't afford ground school....guess I'll never know. I can sleep now.....

darn it all....really wanted to fly...

LB

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:29 am

One thing I just heard on the Local Fox station here in Tampa was that he was the founder of Leeward Ranch a pilots community near Ocala. I didn't put 2 and 2 together at first but I think that's the place where John Travolta owns a large house where he houses something like 3 planes. IIRC a DC-3, a 707 and a much smaller one.

Gary · Post by **Gary** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:38 am

What is also odd is that the tail wheel deployed...

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:30 am

All I can truthfully say is that I will offer up my prayers for the families & friends of all lost.

But... in our highly regulated world of cars, trucks, ships, trains & planes; even the operators thereof, mechanical things break, humans over-extend their abilities to control such events, and tradjedies are often the result. We makes our choices and sometimes pay the ultimate price, be we participant or spectator. Life is ultimately short, a hard, but simple fact. Full of danger, not even safe to remain in bed, cowering under the blankets.

Would'ves, could'ves and should'ves are useless. They only lead right back to the fact that the unexpected happens. There's a school of thought that sez there's no such thing as an "accident". There's always a trail of circumstances and decisions that lead to any event. While that might just be true, not all of those are ours to control.

Sorta like the question, "do seatbelts save lives?" Sirs, the right answer is, "... Yes, sometimes." May be they do, much more often than not; but, in fact, they also sometimes kill. Given that set of facts, do we wear ours or not? Since people have been killed at airshows in the past, do we attend or not?

wecsoger · Post by **wecsoger** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:38 am

It's a tragedy all around. Regardless of the snap judgement of the news media, we'll have to wait for the full investigation for the real reasons.

On another forum, the pilot had passed a FAA flight physical - 2nd class medical cert., not 3rd like most private pilots. So barring something major, age was not a factor. Indeed, he may have been more healthy than most on the board.

D**ned shame.

Rube Burrows · Post by **Rube Burrows** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:55 am

Very sad indeed. I will offer up my prayers for everyone involved.

I wont blame anyone.....these things happen. We as fans want to be as close to the action as possible....football, baseball, basketball, racing.....its all the same. We all want the best seats.

At an air show it would be hard to make fans completely safe as the planes cover so much ground/air and things can go wrong and send the plane anywhere.

The first thing people want to do....(esp people who do not attend such events) is blame people and try to change or ban things.

There is risk in all we do.

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:11 am

Latest info from the NTSB is that a piece of the trim tab on the horizontal stabilizer had possibly fallen off just prior to the accident. This would cause the aircraft to yaw and lose positive control. Thy investigation could take months to complete. Leeward's Mustang was highly modified and capable of speed in excess of 500 MPH. At the rate all systems must work perfectly, and loss of any control surfaces putting the plane into immediate jeopardy.