OT: My cats must be defective .... ;)

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:12 pm

I've heard so many times from various individuals how cats are destroyers of wild life, birds, squirrels, and how they even chase little baby ducks in the water.
Well, my cats must be defective cos for the last several days this nice juicy rabbit has been hopping around our yard ........

Fat juicy rabbit.JPG

...... and the couple that we actually let go outside have totally ignored him/her.

On the serious note I've heard lots of stories from different folks about how their cats cause trouble with anything that comes around. We have opossums, coons, rabbits, squirrels, snakes and a myriad of different birds around here and for the most part the only thing that's in trouble are the snakes and squirrels.
Our oldest male has brought us several dead squirrels he's caught, and a couple other kitties, now deceased have brought us snakes.

But the rest of the critters don't seem to interest them. I guess they are too well fed.

Joe

Lobo · Post by **Lobo** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:42 pm

Yeah.....we get mice and moles from out kitties.

Jeff H · Post by **Jeff H** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:38 pm

Our cat leaves the adult rabbits alone but will ruin a mess of babies quickly.
Don't tell my wife though or she will have me out there chaperoning the cat.

It totally disregards skunks and coons and they her. Smart cat.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:43 pm

Jeff,

I suspect the same might be true here. I haven't seen any baby rabbits yet.

Joe

Mokwaw · Post by **Mokwaw** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:15 am

Hi Joe, I don't think your cat is defective, just smart. That appears to be a full grown rabbit, and it wouldn't take long for it to whoop a cat, may even send that cat packing with it's innards dragging behind it if that rabbit can get it's rear feet into the cat's belly and start kicking. Seen my grandpa's old beagle catch a rabbit once and by the time the rabbit was done old Gomer had a dandy gash along side his head where that rabbit's toe nails sliced him open, Gomer had a rabbit dinner but it cost him pretty good. Any cat that would try to take on a coon would have to be wanting a death wish.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:58 am

J Miller wrote:...they are too well fed.
Joe

There's your answer!

Ours will bring baby mice... and leave 'em in the living room, must be just to show his appreciation from time to time... probably doesn't understand the wife's reaction!

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:02 am

Cats are excellent hunters by nature. But like all animals, they don't hunt for sport. They hunt to eat. A well fed cat is far less inclined to hunt up a meal.

Cats get lots of critics because there are so many folks who dislike them and are quick to point out and even exaggerate any of their negative qualities. Many folks don't like cats, because can't can't be controlled by humans. Even house cats retain their independent spirits.

Even though they can't be controlled, cats do bond with humans. Cats are wonderful animals with which to share life, IF we respect them for what they are and don't try and turn them into dogs with long tails.

pdawg.shooter · Post by **pdawg.shooter** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:58 am

I live 25 mi from town and drive it every day. I see a cat more than a 1/4 from a farm house I kill it. Every time. No exceptions.

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:09 am

you feed your cats - makes all the difference. Feral cats are something else.

My boxer is the fastest dog I've ever seen - he runs for fun. But there is a pair of rabbits inside the fenced acre with him and he pays them no mind. I'm sure they showed him up once, so he decided not to try again.

My elkhound or akita would have dispatched them and laid them at the back door, as they did with roadrunners, other birds, squirrels, and feral cats.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:50 am

pdawg.shooter wrote:I live 25 mi from town and drive it every day. I see a cat more than a 1/4 from a farm house I kill it. Every time. No exceptions.

Guy, the way I read your post I sure hope in heck you are only talking about just your own house/property?(possibly State Hunting Land or someones that gave you that type permission to do so)????(I wouldnt do it)
Shooting someones cat on their property will probably land you with losing your guns/hunting licenses/and probably spending time in the pokey and a civil lawsuit.?(felony ring a bell) ?? (not cool guy!)

Myself, I see kitty cats rarely way out in my woods (I leave them be)
In fact people down the road died recently and now the cats(3) come up every night at my place and get some cat food(I buy for them)placed on a railroad tie. just enough to aid them some with what they catch around the barn! I monitor how they look and feed accordingly.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:41 pm

pdawg.shooter

A quarter mile is well within the home territory of domestic cat. Should you get caught indiscriminately killing every cat you find you will be in deep trouble.
Many counties now have animal cruelty ordinances on the books and they enforce them.
Cat haters such as yourself cause much pain to animal owners. I feel sorry for you. Hatred is such a horrible thing to hold in your soul.

Joe

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:15 pm

people shoot feral dogs, and they should.

people call feral cats "kitties."

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:55 pm

bulldog1935 wrote:people shoot feral dogs, and they should.

people call feral cats "kitties."

bulldog,
I have killed my share of feral cats. I do not do so cruelly, with hatred in my heart or just because the cat is there.

The only cats I call "kitties" are my own.

Joe

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:43 pm

I just am not seeing this feral thing going on up here? too many people assume"that dog/cat is loose,its feral" ?
I sure as heck don't consider 3 cats that were left abandoned trying to make it on there own now(feral)
I have a lot of log roads and I might see a couple times a year a dog wandering down a trail then taking off when it sees me which I do'nt consider feral either.
Last summer while I was changing my oil lying underneath my car I heard a growling,I came out from under the car and here is a Rhodesian Ridgeback growling at me.I could tell the dog was just bluffing I yelled at it and it took of down the driveway.
Myself to shoot a dog/cat it would have to be the very last resort.(I love dogs and I also like cats)
Most are someones pet,at least around these parts.

If someone like described in below link did what he did to my dog ??????????????????

http://www.pressconnects.com/article/20 ... g-incident

piller · Post by **piller** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:00 pm

Had a neighbor who had a bunch of cats. Prior to my moving in to this house, it sat empty for a year. She had trained her cats to come to this yard for their bathroom. I retrained them with rat traps and sardines. Only 2 cats got whacked and the rest left the yard alone after that, too. I did take the traps apart and weaken the springs before using them. The cats only got slapped enough for a surprise. Hurting them would have been wrong, but it doesn't take much to surprise a cat. They started going around her bushes and she was furious with me.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:27 pm

pdawg.shooter wrote:I live 25 mi from town and drive it every day. I see a cat more than a 1/4 from a farm house I kill it. Every time. No exceptions.

Thats idiotic and i hope for your sake you are exaggerating, but oh well ----- it must be torture going through life being that bitter.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:07 pm

After awhile, pets become like their owners.......

pdawg.shooter · Post by **pdawg.shooter** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:58 pm

I have ask for, and received permission from all but 1 land owner on my route to and from town. I have also received the thanks of a number of these land owners for keeping the number of feral cats down in number. As long as I am able I will continue to to shoot these cats and improve the chances of game birds to spread. I also call and kill coyotes year around to limit their numbers. No difference between coyotes and feral cats that I can see.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:45 pm

Well pdawg.shooter, this aughta make you happy. One of our boy kitties; Charlie, just came in panting and heaving. He's probably been poisoned. All he did was try to rid the neighborhood of mice.

We're probably gonna loose him cos there's no funds for vets. We're into the vets so heavy now because of Slick and the attempt to save his life that we can't do anything for Charlie. Not to mention the human DR bills I've run up cos of my fall and regular bills we can't pay.
Wife just had a $100 winning lottery ticket and it all went to pay bills.

I'm so darn sick of this pelosi I could scream!

Joe

Sarge · Post by **Sarge** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:02 pm

Streetstar wrote:
pdawg.shooter wrote:I live 25 mi from town and drive it every day. I see a cat more than a 1/4 from a farm house I kill it. Every time. No exceptions.
Thats idiotic and i hope for your sake you are exaggerating, but oh well ----- it must be torture going through life being that bitter.

This was pretty much the unwritten rule among the bird hunters I learned under as a kid, although the eradication was always done on property owned, leased or used with permission of the owners. I still hunt some of that ground and we had a damsight less stray cats, and more quail, in those bygone days.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:49 pm

Sarge,

Cats now have become the primary pet of the city dweller. From articles I've read they've outnumbered dogs for quite some time. Unfortunately, they are not regulated as dogs are so they have also become a disposable pet. That is how we've gotten most of ours. Rescuing pets that others abandon.

Abandoning cats in the country is about the cruelest thing I can think of. They may be hunters at heart, but most barely survive a week before being run over or killed by dogs or other predators.
Then before those that do survive have a chance to find a new home we have cat haters killing them just for the fun of it.

Oh well, we will all face judgment eventually.

Joe

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:50 pm

The poor cats around here hardly don't have a chance anymore Joe!
Up here the poor boogers are afraid to even go out in the woods most the time because the bald eagles and coyotes have been getting them.
One of them now even comes up on the deck to get some of his food(the other two cats kinda beat him up when feeding on the railroad tie bank, he has only 3 legs and no tail. He actually is a beautiful cat(this weird multi colored gray calico.
That cat is the nicest little thing. When he gets petted he almost goes into a frenzy because he is so happy and here he probably got caught in someones trap.

If only humans could be so forgiving as dogs/cats after being treated in such a way.
I named him Tommy and he now lives way back halfway under my large equipment shed.Even the dogs now kinda like him.

In fact about 2 hours ago wife just fed him a can of white albacore for July 4th early celebration(other two got cat food and a hot dog.

Nope, I am not into shooting dogs/cats.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:10 pm

Madman,

I'd take Tommy to the vet, get him neutered and vaccinated and make him an indoor pet. As crippled as he is, he's open to all sorts of hurts outside.

Matter of fact, as of today with Charlie coming in sick, all our kitties just became indoor kitties. Weather they like it or not.
I'm going to try to build some window boxes so they can go there to be "outdoors". Enough is enough.

Joe

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:33 pm

We just might do that Joe!
Its amazing our dogs seem to know this cat has a disability and they treat him in this weird real sensitive way.
The other two abandoned cats live in the barn while this other guy lives by himself about halfway underneath our equipment shed which is about 14ft back.(shed is a 14x28)
Now this cat is tough though,he has kicked out a large woodchuck that for the last two years has lived there.
Also my daughter wants to take Tommy.She already has two female cats(one which is pregnant,and she said she is keeping the kittens)
Whats one more kitty!

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:19 pm

All cats are defective.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:09 pm

Meeow, spit spit sputter tthhpppppppppt

J

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Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:13 pm

Unless of course, they are chasing rats out of barns or the like.

And, you wouldn't want to be ticking off the big cats - lions, tigers or mountain lions - unless, you were adequately armed.

Only time I was actually concerned about a mountain lion I had a 7-08 with me but I stayed on high alert until in the vehicle in the mountains at dark.

Sarge · Post by **Sarge** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:05 pm

J Miller wrote:Sarge,

Cats now have become the primary pet of the city dweller. From articles I've read they've outnumbered dogs for quite some time. Unfortunately, they are not regulated as dogs are so they have also become a disposable pet. That is how we've gotten most of ours. Rescuing pets that others abandon.

Abandoning cats in the country is about the cruelest thing I can think of. They may be hunters at heart, but most barely survive a week before being run over or killed by dogs or other predators.
Then before those that do survive have a chance to find a new home we have cat haters killing them just for the fun of it.

Oh well, we will all face judgment eventually.

Joe

You insinuate I'm a cat hater for refusing to allow strays to overpopulate my ground--and eat my quail, who evidently don't rate in your cruelty quotient.

Then you insinuate I'm going to hell for exercising dominion over the animals that occupy it?

Laughable, in a sad kind of way.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:13 pm

Sarge wrote:
J Miller wrote:Sarge,

Cats now have become the primary pet of the city dweller. From articles I've read they've outnumbered dogs for quite some time. Unfortunately, they are not regulated as dogs are so they have also become a disposable pet. That is how we've gotten most of ours. Rescuing pets that others abandon.

Abandoning cats in the country is about the cruelest thing I can think of. They may be hunters at heart, but most barely survive a week before being run over or killed by dogs or other predators.
Then before those that do survive have a chance to find a new home we have cat haters killing them just for the fun of it.

Oh well, we will all face judgment eventually.

Joe
You insinuate I'm a cat hater for refusing to allow strays to overpopulate my ground--and eat my quail, who evidently don't rate in your cruelty quotient.

Then you insinuate I'm going to hell for exercising dominion over the animals that occupy it?

Laughable, in a sad kind of way.

Nope, no insinuations what so ever. Just a poor choice of wording, punctuation, and post location. I kind of figured you'd get peeved at me for posting that on your quote. I should have changed that.

As for exercising dominion over the animals we encounter I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.
Quail are just birds, something's gotta eat 'em. Might as well be fluffy.

Joe

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:35 am

Once you've made a pet of something, you can't look at the species the same ever again. But, in the end, they are animals no matter how much we miss them when they are gone. I love my Thor like a son I never had, but if he gets real sick and expensive, he's going on a very gentle and loving trip to the RainBow Bridge

Sarge · Post by **Sarge** » Sat Jul 02, 2011 4:02 pm

Guys, I love dogs to death but if one of mine ever chased stock or bit kids, they got a one-way trip to the treeline. I guess some of it is how you came up and another component is the realities of where you live.

OJ · Post by OJ » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:18 am

We don't have any cats around here - they're considered tasty I think

This little girl was adopted - looks like a Boxer but thinks and acts like a Terrier. Big dog in a small (relative - we showed Mastiffs more than two decades) body - "Boxerrier".

She was really upset when she bought a rabbit she caught into our dining room to eat (we eat ther - she thought she should also) and we denied her that privilege. Guess other rabbits got quicker since she hasn't caught any since - or she eats them outside.

She did issue warning to this larger visitor in our yard - eating plum trees -

But, he didn't spook - so they have some understanding, I guess.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:40 am

Pretty much every cat I've had would kill critters and bring them home as gifts. But our current male, darned thing weighs 15 pounds, eats whatever he catches. And, based on the feathers and other bits and pieces, he catches lots. His favorite eating place is our welcome mat. So finding the "evidence" isn't hard.

He does have a goal (keeps him happy I guess). Our neighbor has a flowering plant that attracts humming birds. He'll spend hours (wish I had his patients) trying to ambush a bird. He's come very close a time or two, so I figure he's still hopeful. He always seems to be moving slow, but I've watched him stalk. It takes ages for him to get into position, but once there, and the timing is right, his last rush is just a blur.

Oh, and by the way, his favorite is snack, oriental waterbugs. At night we can hear him out in the yard, pounce, crunch, crunch, crunch. Repeat.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:46 am

jeepnik,

That about describes our mellow yellow boy kitty that got sick last week.
We're not sure what he got, but we almost lost him.
Slow and lethargic looking till the final charge then look out!

About half those who've posted on this thread would probably like to terminate your cat cos of all the birds he's eaten. So best keep him close.

Joe

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:57 am

J Miller wrote:jeepnik,

That about describes our mellow yellow boy kitty that got sick last week.
We're not sure what he got, but we almost lost him.
Slow and lethargic looking till the final charge then look out!

About half those who've posted on this thread would probably like to terminate your cat cos of all the birds he's eaten. So best keep him close.

Joe

Lot's of cat people where I live. And, more than a few of the dogs around here have been so "citified" they think of cats as just another small dog. Fortunately he does his hunting in the canyon behind my place. Since the puma left, he is the biggest predator around. The only ones we've lost other than to natural causes have been to cars.

By the way, here's a shot of the last one we lost. Died from a heart attack. But she really like crickets. Hever ate them, just brought them in "alive". I miss the cricketing in the night sometimes.

Oh, and here's one of the "killer".

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:03 pm

OJ,

That's on heck of lap dog!

Ever since I left AZ I've missed having a dog. Weird thing is our landlord don't mind our kitties, but won't let us have a dog.

Joe

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:18 pm

Just for the fun of it, here's a couple pics of our mellow yellow kitty Charlie:

Charlie & Millie.JPG

Charlie in kitchen window.JPG

Charlie in tent b web.JPG

kitty pics 07 001.jpg

Charlie is the first yellow and while TC we've ever been able to keep.
He showed up in '02.

OJ · Post by OJ » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:19 pm

J Miller wrote:OJ,

That's on heck of lap dog!

Ever since I left AZ I've missed having a dog. Weird thing is our landlord don't mind our kitties, but won't let us have a dog.

Joe

You have my sympathies - except for my WW II service, med school, and surgical training at the county hospital in Detroit, I've always had a dog - got my first dog and first horse when I was four years old (grew up a cowboy) - I even had a Boxer during my Korean tour.

She is really a sweetheart - and -

"DOG IS MY COPILOT"

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:36 pm

Most of my life growing up we had dogs of one form or another. We had Pekineses, Chinese pug bulls, Doxandes (?) weenie dog, mixed large and small, but the last one was a doozy.
Mom bought him from a family where she was delivering phone books one time for a whopping $5.00. He was a mixed breed, mostly lab but some other breed(s) too. I think there was some ridge back in him cos when he got on alert the fur right down the middle of his back would stand straight up. Mom named him Tinte.
He was very smart and loved to go for a walk. Never tried to run off and he just loved to dig up mice and dispatch them. He was a better mouser than any cat I've ever had.
When mom died my aunt took custody of him. We wanted to bring him back to IL with us but couldn't. I miss that old mutt.
He lived to be 17.

Tinte 3-03 web.JPG

Joe

OJ · Post by OJ » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:04 am

What's a cat ???

We have these in our yard -

Maybe this -

and, even this - but, we are all friends - though that black & white guy was a little reserved at first

No cats, though - unless you count the black & white guy.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:36 am

My aunt lived out in the desert and had trained her dogs to leave the cats alone. One day a family of skunks came in and the dogs wanted to play with the skunks. The only thing my aunt could think of to control the dogs was: "Leave the kitties alone now". Funny looking kitties, but it worked.

Joe

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:58 am

When I was a kid we always had a cat and a dog around the place, so I ain't a cat hater but I must say that when I was a professional game keeper cats were the worst predator I had to control, not only did they take game birds including full grown pheasants but their presence caused game birds to leave the area. I got into all sorts of trouble for shooting feral cats by folks that did not understand the damage they were doing.
As a professional pest controller I have also had to deal with feral cats in large numbers living in towns, most had to be put down because of the feline diseases they carried.
I guess I look at cats a bit differently now but I still stop to stroke the the occasional one I pass on the street.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:36 am

J Miller wrote:Most of my life growing up we had dogs of one form or another. We had Pekineses, Chinese pug bulls, Doxandes (?) weenie dog, mixed large and small, but the last one was a doozy.
Mom bought him from a family where she was delivering phone books one time for a whopping $5.00. He was a mixed breed, mostly lab but some other breed(s) too. I think there was some ridge back in him cos when he got on alert the fur right down the middle of his back would stand straight up. Mom named him Tinte.
He was very smart and loved to go for a walk. Never tried to run off and he just loved to dig up mice and dispatch them. He was a better mouser than any cat I've ever had.
When mom died my aunt took custody of him. We wanted to bring him back to IL with us but couldn't. I miss that old mutt.
He lived to be 17.
Tinte 3-03 web.JPG
Joe

Joe,
Don't think Tinte had ridge back in him but that's from the Lab.
Especially noticeable with the male yellow Labs.
Our Charlie (pure yellow lab)when he goes into guard mode he shows a very pronounced raised darkened stripe from the neck down to base of tail.His growl tone drops way down to a deep fierce sound and he paws the ground(like a mad bull)throwing sod all over.
Best guard dog at least I have ever had including 3 Dobermans/2 German Shepards/1 Bull Terrier)maybe cause he's not fixed?

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:20 am

game keeper,

Feral cats can a big problem especially when diseased. I have dealt with that myself on my aunts property. They are no different than a pack of feral dogs in that respect.
I guess my problem is with those that want to kill every cat they see if it's not penned up somewhere. Even domestic cats have an outdoor territory and deserve to be left alone. Some folks refuse to distinguish the difference and will as has been said in this thread, kill every one they see. There is where my problem lies.

.....................................................

madman4570,
You just described Tinte perfectly. The ridge of fur down his back, the low pitch rumbling growl when in guard mode......... oh yeah, I miss that mutt.

Joe

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 11:58 am

Just to keep it straight, we all live in very different jurisdictions, some with widely differing mores and laws. Most places I've lived, dogs were viewed as domesticated animals and cats as free-spirits. In short, dogs can be owned and considered someone's property, cats aren't. Therefore, while shooting a neighbor's dog might be illegal, shooting a cat isn't.

I think I've posted this same thing before, it all depends on where you live. There are vast differences between city, suburbia and country beyond just the views. My country home seems to be swiftly turning into suburbia. Although it's several thousand yards to homes to the south and east of me, it's only a couple hundred to the west and north. My nearest neighbors either have horses like me, or maybe a dog or cat. Neither is an annoyance, until they chase my horses. Once the neighbor has been warned, their "pet" is fair game. While shooting a roaming dog is not considered proper neighborly conduct, shooting a dog that chasing your livestock (of any kind, including quail, which are tasty treats, both animal and human), is considered your right as protection of your livelihood.

Cats don't even register on most livestock owner's radar except as pests or control animals. Cats, since they're considered "free-spirits", and aren't "owned" or controlled by humans, they are often looked upon as indiscriminate hunters, and therefore, often as a pest. Controlling pests is part of being a responsible landowner. Just as possums and racoons are troublesome pests, so can uncontrolled cats. Yes, I have a house cat... it barely tolerates me, unless it finds me in the kitchen when it feels it's food dish is too low... then I'm it's new bestest friend. We usually have a couple of cats in the barn... they stay well out sight and seem to have both a never-ending job with mice, and defending their turf against the occasional possum or racoon. And, staying hidden from roving bands of coyotes.

Since all my neighbors have barns, we all face the same job of keeping unwanted predators from them. There's always grain and feed in my barn as well as my neighbors, and like them, my horses take precedence to any other animals in the area.

Coyotes are the most common predator in the woods behind my house, but, with encroaching suburbia, (new developments are slowly choking off some traditionally open areas), they are fast becoming more scarce... but since they're traveling, they're also heard more often. As fire-ant populations expand or contract, so do both mouse and rabbit populations, therefore my need for cats to control those. Cats CAN be just as big a problem as other more-commonly described pests, such as possums, racoons, skunks, etc. They can be carriers of disease as easily as being a help in controlling small rodents.

Being critical or self-righteous over others view of how we individually deal with our views of whether cats make for good target practice is counter-productive.

Whenever one posts an "OT" post, one must face the possibility that one will have raised a bone of contention. And just as we all don't love the Winchester mdl 94 .30-30, we all aren't going to be in agreement that a cat is just about the perfect pet. Just as I have to exercise self-control when someone denigrates the Winchester .30-30, one might be well-served to excercise some self-restaint when being critical of how someone responds describing how they resolve issues as they're viewed where they live.

Sarge · Post by **Sarge** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:39 pm

Griff wrote: And just as we all don't love the Winchester mdl 94 .30-30.....

WHAT?!! There are heretics among us?!!