44 Mag Levergun Loads Using 44-40 Load Data??

[COSteve]

I was thinking the other day that a 44-40 levergun would be fun to plink with but the brass is hard to come by, expensive when you find it, and won't take very much pressure. On the other hand, 44 mag brass is readily available, cheap when you find once fired, and will take lots of pressure.

I understand that both calibers use the same bullets and the cases are pretty close to the same size so I'm wondering if you could load up 44 mag brass using 44-40 loads like the ones below. What say you?

[Timothy]

I use 8grs unique in my rossi 44mag with a 200gr bullet. Very accurate and economical. I figure its pretty close to 44wcf performance.

[Lefty Dude]

My 44mag. Accuracy load with lead is a 240 gr. SWC behind six gr's of Unique.

The 44-40 loading W/ the 240 gr SWC is 6.7 gr. of Unique, also a very accurate load.

The 44-40 case has a little more internal volume than a 44 mag.

Both loads are shot out of Rossi's 92's.

BTW; Both Rifles shoot the 240 gr. SWC more accurate than a two hundred grain RNFP. This would be at distance of 100 yds. and greater.

You can shoot them hotter than the above, if you like to clean lead from the leade of the barrel.

[Malamute]

I've shot more 9 grs Unique/200 rnfp loads in my Browning 92 than anything else. Very pleasant to shoot. Makes a decent small game load also. I havent chrono'd it, I've guessed it to be about 1300 fps, near original 44 WCF velocities.

[COSteve]

Good to know. Thanks to all.

[Griff]

Steve,

If you're thinking of using .44Mag brass in a .44-40 rifle, my only concerns would be the smaller case volume of the .44Mag and more importantly, the difference in the neck thickness of the brass. Both will have the effect of increasing the pressure... how much, I don't know... but I think I'd work it up from a reasonable minimum loading.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

... and more importantly, the difference in the neck thickness of the brass.

Yeah, I think you'd end up turning/thinning the necks to keep the fit proper.

[willygene]

8grs of unique with 200gr lead is my favorite load in the 44-40 I haven't had any trouble getting good brass or loaded ammo in 44-40 the lead cast for most 44-40 is 427 or 428 the 44mag is 429 and remember the 44-40 is bottle neck and the 44mag is not.

[COSteve]

Steve,

If you're thinking of using .44Mag brass in a .44-40 rifle, my only concerns would be the smaller case volume of the .44Mag and more importantly, the difference in the neck thickness of the brass. Both will have the effect of increasing the pressure... how much, I don't know... but I think I'd work it up from a reasonable minimum loading.

Thanks, but I was actually thinking more of just getting a 44mag and loading it down. I assumed that it would be fine to load it down but you know what can happen sometimes when you do so I thought I'd check with you experts.

BTW, I looked up the two calibers on Wikipedia and they list the following information:

44-40.......................................................................44 mag

Bullet diameter...........0.427 in (10.8 mm)....................0.429 in (10.9 mm)
Neck diameter............0.443 in (11.3 mm)....................0.457 in (11.6 mm)
Shoulder diameter........0.457 in (11.6 mm)
Base diameter.............0.471 in (12.0 mm)....................0.457 in (11.6 mm)
Rim diameter..............0.525 in (13.3 mm).....................0.514 in (13.1 mm)
Case length................1.31 in (33.3 mm)......................1.61 in (41 mm)

That looks to me like there's too much difference to consider switching cases. Also, I note that the bullet diameters are different.

Are the 44-40's bored smaller too? Seems that shooting a jacketed .44mag bullet through a 44-40 wouldn't be a great idea if the bore is smaller. Or, they might just bore them out to the same as a 44 mag for economy.

[txpete]

steve over the years I have owned several 44/40's handguns and rifles.one of my fav was a smith wagon train com. N-frame smith.the vaquero was a problem child.
good article here
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/4440.htm

my first rossi in 44/40 was very accurate but a brass muncher..429 cast bullets of 15 bhn worked great using 2400 and imr 4227.I ended up swapping it off for a marlin in 44/40.the marlin was "interesting" trying to get it to shoot cast bullets worth a hoot.I ended up shooting my cast bullet as cast just a tad over .430 and water quenched them and that worked.the rossi I had at first was a more accurate carbine.the smith and the vaquero or the smith wouldn't chamber the same loads with the bullets used in the marlin.
for brass I started using rem first its thicker than the win brass that can be a problem with what bullet your are using in a handgun.I had more splits with rem brass than win brass.the answer imho is starline brass for the 44/40.
bottom line after all of years of shooting the 44/40 I sold it all to cass guys and now shoot the 44 mag. in handgun and the 444 for hunting.
you can down load the 444 with cast and jacketed bullets using 2400 for pig and deer or wind it up with some AA2015 for bigger game.
ymmv

pete

[alnitak]

I have a Trapper in .44 spl/mag and download it all the time -- from easy shooting range loads all the way down to cowboy loads. I find AA#9 and 2400 useful in these applications, and use very similar loads with each powder.

As an example, with a 240 LSWC bullet, full house loads generally run 19-21 grains; easy shooting loads are in the 16-18 range, and soft shooting cowboy loads are in the 13-15 grain range. Because of the ability to download .44 mag, I no longer shoot .44 special out of the Trapper.

I will say that the 2400 burns dirtier at the lower load levels. For those loads, I have found AA#5 works well too (IIRC with 7.5-10 grains of powder).

[jlchucker]

CoSteve, Have you considered trying some of the milder listed loads for the 429215 gr Lyman cast bullet in your 44 Mag? I've used that bullet in a Winchester Trapper, and later in a 24 inch EMF Rossi for several years. It's listed as being a 210 grainer in Lyman Reloading Handbook No. 48, but I've found mine to be closer to 220 grains as cast, with the gascheck. I've found this to be an accurate bullet, with lighter recoil than one weighing 240 grains. There's lots of data for it, for all of the common powders, with velocities listed as ranging from 914 fps on up. You might want to give this one a try. I've loaded all of mine with 2400 powder and a Winchester Large Pistol Primer--it's listed as one of the choices in the Lyman book.

[w30wcf]

Steve,
The length of the .44 mag case on your chart is incorrect. It should be about 1.28". Most of my .44-40 cases run about 1.29" long. In testing both cases, the 44-40 has about 8% more internal volume but that would be fairly insignificant in using 44-40 loads in the 44 Mag case.

Most .44-40's made these days have groove diameters of .429-.430" .....the same as the .44 Mag. No doubt factories are using the same barrel stock for both. Original Winchesters / Marlins, for the most part have the smaller .426-.427" groove.

Have fun!

w30wcf

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Here is the SAAMI drawing for the 44 Magnum cartridge and chamber:




Here is the information for the 44-40:



I'm not sure if you want to simply load 44 Mag cases to 44-40 pressures, or if you want to shoot one cartridge in the other chamber. The drawings will tell you the story.

You should have no problem loading 44 Mag down to 44-40 pressures.

Originally, groove diameter for 44-40 was set at .427 in the 19th Century. Actual 44-40 groove diameter could vary quite a lot. 44 Mag groove diameter has always been .429, as has its parent round the 44 Special and its parent round the 44 Russian.

I have a couple of 19th Century rifles, a Marlin '94 and a Winchester '92. Both slug at .427. I have an Uberti '73 and it too slugs at .427. My more recent Uberti Henry slugs at .429. As noted, many manufacturers use the same .429 barrel blanks today for 44-40. However that Uberti '73 of mine does slug at .427.

[jd45]

A LOT of .44MAG rifles have been coming thru with over-large groove diameters. MtBaldy Bullets will make oversize bullets for you to give better accuracy, after you slug your bore to determine just what diameter bullet you require. Call Frank & discuss it with him. jd45