Tell me about the "71"

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:35 pm

My first exposure to the "71" was that several folks said that IT was the "one" levergun they'd say they just had to have.

Then, I see pics of a Browning "71" for sale, that looks like a stretched-out version of a Rossi 92.

I don't know if the original "71" was a Winchester design from 1871 or if it has anything to do with the Browning one, but I guess I'll learn...

So, what is/are the "71(s)", and what are the chambered in, and why are they so good...?

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:50 pm

The 71 was a continuation of the 1886 with some mechanical improvements. The '86 was dropped in 1935 and the Model 71 was introduced the following year. The cartridge designed for the 71 was the .348 W.C.F., a tapered and necked down case based on the old .50-110 EX. Originally it was going to be the .34 W.C.F., but the idea was quashed in favor of the "larger" sounding 3 number name. It is a very potent round and was heavily advertised as a killer of large game such as Grizzlies, Moose, etc. I have one original 71 and have taken it to the elk camp twice. At 200 yds, or less, it is a stone killer of elk, mule deer, and the like.

Grizzly Adams · Post by **Grizzly Adams** » Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:14 pm

Here's a little info on the 71.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/model71.htm

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:23 pm

AJ -

Since the 1892 is simply the 1886 "downsized" to handle pistol-caliber cartridges, I can see where you would see a "stretched 1892" in looking at the Model 71. As noted, the 71 is simply a re-introduction of the 1886, "new and improved", so to speak (when it came out), but an iteration of the 1886 nonetheless.

I guess I am at the opposite end of the spectrum versus many of our levergun brothers. Though I would like to have someday an example of every Winchester levergun model, the 71 will probably be one of the last ones I pick up (unless I find a heck of a deal on one). I just do not need yet another caliber to deal with in my collection, and though I love the 1886 action, I have never been a fan of anything other than "straight stocked" leveractions.

I know - I'm strange!

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:39 am

Thanks guys for all the info. I feel edjumicated now.

Looks like the '71 is a pretty awesome gun/design.

I'm kind of with YK on it though, if I had one, I'd probably immediately destroy its collector value by re-barreling it in a cartridge I already have, just to avoid another round to have to stock/reload.

RKrodle · Post by **RKrodle** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:48 am

Hey Doc,
Think 30-06 velocity with 200-250 gr. bullets in a traditional style levergun. A very well designed stock, according to some info I read a lot of debate was made to the style of stock to be used with the NRA style (?) winning out. A wider forearm for better grip purchase, especially in cold weather with gloves. I like mine, a Browning, and have shot a few hogs and one Water Buffalo with it all using 250 grain bullets. Haven't found a pig that would stop a bullet yet but the Water Buffalo did. Lots of power out of a quick handling package. I plan to take it along on an Elk hunt in December.

Oh and I shot one really mean runaway goat.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:59 pm

RKrodle wrote:A very well designed stock, according to some info I read a lot of debate was made to the style of stock to be used with the NRA style (?) winning out. A wider forearm for better grip purchase, especially in cold weather with gloves.

Looks like the forerunner to the 'wide body' Marlin forearm...! I actually do like the feel of those from a 'shooting' standpoint, although the slimmer looks of the old style is prettier to look at.

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:38 pm

RKrodle wrote:
Oh and I shot one really mean runaway goat.

Which one is the goat

I hope to be burning some powder out of a .348 by the end of the week. 220 gr bullets are all I have been able to find in stock,but I bet they'll shoot just fine.

RKrodle · Post by **RKrodle** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:07 pm

hey watch it there pilgrim

.

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:31 pm

I use one for collecting elk ivory's, the stock design of the 71 & 64 is the appeal they shoulder and hold well, that 348 is just bad berry on elk, deer and moose. danny

RKrodle · Post by **RKrodle** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:03 pm

Danny,

What bullets are you using for Elk? I have a chance to go after a spike or cow in December. May be the only chance I ever get for an Elk hunt and I want to do it right. I usually just load the Hornady 200 gr, but also have some Barnes and Woodleigh 250gr. I'm thinking Hornady should be more then abdicate.

mohavesam · Post by **mohavesam** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:47 pm

All the above is true. The 71 is one fine bear/elk/boar rifle. Not much out there that can shake off a 220gr Barnes at 2375+ fps, or a 200gr X-bullet at 2500+. My first fall black bear took a 200gr Silvertip just above the heart and crumpled within 2-3 steps.

IMO: The Brownings are much lower in production numbers than the Winchesters and are fine rifles with modern steels - I bought my first Browning in late '86?; but the originals were essentially hand-built (due in part to antiquated quality control of Winchester's post-war "bins-o-parts" manufacturing practices). They are usually smooooth, I'll admit, even with low hours.

But watch out for anyone who claims: "The Model 71 was the only gun ever chambered for the 348 Winchester cartridge." They obviously haven't kept up with the times

Uberti made @550 High Wall rifles in 348 Winchester, sold via the Cimmaron brand circa 2004-05?. Two grades at least. I own only one; a 26" octagon tube with color-CH receiver, tang sight, a plain stock and curved butt I bought in 2006 after it sat in a rack for more than a year (then I learned the store had sold more than a dozen!). Not sure but I think 550 qualifies as "production" ? What say ye?

Own one.

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:26 pm

Rick, 200 grn hdy 53 grains of imr 4895 for 2450 fps and 3/4 group at 100 Ive gotten 30+" of penetration with the hdy on elk soft tissue usually shoot thru on a lung/heart shot I try not to shoot them in the shoulders as I like eating them too much. danny

This hdy weighted 186 grs and went 30" from behind the left side diaphragm and lodged at the right brisket under the hide on a meat bull.

RKrodle · Post by **RKrodle** » Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:01 pm

Thanks Danny, I'm running pretty much the same load but with H4895. I haven't taken any game with the Hornady, I have with some 250's, but I've heard it's a tough bullet and that confirms it for me.

pharmseller · Post by **pharmseller** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:11 pm

This mulie lost a one-sided battle with a Winchester Silvertip.

P

mod71alaska · Post by **mod71alaska** » Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:35 pm

AJMD429 wrote:My first exposure to the "71" was that several folks said that IT was the "one" levergun they'd say they just had to have.

Then, I see pics of a Browning "71" for sale, that looks like a stretched-out version of a Rossi 92.

I don't know if the original "71" was a Winchester design from 1871 or if it has anything to do with the Browning one, but I guess I'll learn...

So, what is/are the "71(s)", and what are the chambered in, and why are they so good...?

Here are several photos of the venerable Model 71 to help with this discussion. The 3 Winchester Model 71s are mine. The 2 Browning 71s were mine and now are owned by fellow Levergunners as I'm paring down my rifles. (I hope you don't mind me posting a photo of your 71s, guys.)

L-R: 1936 Deluxe long tang with original bolt peep sight; 1941 Standard short tang with original bolt peep sight (This might be the rarest configuration of Winchester 71 rifles); 1955 Deluxe short tang with original Lyman receiver sight.

This photo clearly shows the pre- and post-war long and short tang and hammer style differences:

Notice in this and the next photo that the (middle) 1941 Standard Model 71 with the newer short tang has a buttstock comb that extends tight up to the tang and still is shaped like the earlier pre-war long tang stock on the left.

Here is a photo of the beautiful Browning re-issue of the Winchester Model 71: 20" Carbine top; 24" Rifle bottom, both with upgraded deluxe checkered stocks and Williams receiver peep sights.

Yes, I think the Model 71 is one of the finest lever action rifles ever made!

mod71alaska · Post by **mod71alaska** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:18 pm

In the early days in Alaska (before and just after statehood) you'd often see the Model 71 .348 carried by Brown Bear guides. I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't taken more big bear in Alaska than any other caliber. After Winchester discontinued making the Model 71 in 1957, it continued to be in high demand in Alaska and very expensive on the used market. I'd call the .348 Model 71 "The Alaska Lever Action Rifle!"

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:56 pm

Wow, mod71alaska, (who'd have guessed you'd like '71's...

) awesome collection.

It's nice to see a 'set' of different models/vintages/variations of a given type of gun, particularly in such good shape.

I'm gonna post more "Tell me about the ____" threads in the future - I might learn something, eventually...

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:12 pm

mod71alaska wrote:
Here is a photo of the beautiful Browning re-issue of the Winchester Model 71: 20" Carbine top; 24" Rifle bottom, both with upgraded deluxe checkered stocks and Williams receiver peep sights.

Yes, I think the Model 71 is one of the finest lever action rifles ever made!

Boy howdy, that bottom rifle is a beaut! If a feller could get his hands on her, he'd be set for life

Wouldn't want nothing else in the whole wide world, except an endless supply of .348 bullets.

(If my wife finds out that " I've had that one quite a while." means I've had it 4 days. . . .I may be single for life.

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:37 pm

Jeez Victor. Are you sure you're not violating any regulations having that many 71's with bolt peeps? Great looking rifles.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:44 pm

Doc,
71's are owned by guys who have always secretly wanted an '86. Ha! This is gonna pee some dudes off.

Relax, I have a couple of 'em--safe queens mostly.--------Sixgun

Gary7 · Post by **Gary7** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:35 am

Sixgun wrote:Doc,
71's are owned by guys who have always secretly wanted an '86. Ha! This is gonna pee some dudes off. Relax, I have a couple of 'em--safe queens mostly.--------Sixgun

71s are owned by guys who know the 70 isn't really "The Rifleman's Rifle."

Ravenman · Post by **Ravenman** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:12 pm

Here some more infos about the great M 71

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=26236
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... f=1&t=1763

For me one of the best leverguns and cartridges ever

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:44 pm

Ah, Sixgun, you just had to play the high hand, didn't you? Maybe that's why I only own one 71 and more than a dozen '86s. Victor's beautiful 71s are winning me over just a little bit, though.

tman · Post by **tman** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:25 pm

mod71alaska wrote:In the early days in Alaska (before and just after statehood) you'd often see the Model 71 .348 carried by Brown Bear guides. I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't taken more big bear in Alaska than any other caliber. After Winchester discontinued making the Model 71 in 1957, it continued to be in high demand in Alaska and very expensive on the used market. I'd call the .348 Model 71 "The Alaska Lever Action Rifle!"

Well said!

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:45 pm

Mike D. wrote:Ah, Sixgun, you just had to play the high hand, didn't you? Maybe that's why I only own one 71 and more than a dozen '86s. Victor's beautiful 71s are winning me over just a little bit, though.

Ha! Yea, 71's sure are a piece of fine machinery. In shooting thousands of rounds, I have never had one hang up or fail to feed in any way. Maybe I choose 86's over 71's the same way the old head collectors turn their nose up at anything made after 1898.

Those guys are always talking Henry's, 66's, engraved guns--you know, the ones we probably will never see.

---------Sixgun

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:35 am

I certainly don't qualify as an "old head" collector because I turn up my nose at any 1886 made before 1898.

Idiot · Post by **Idiot** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:47 am

The Model 71 was next in development and public offering sequence to Winchester's Model 70. As a result it was dubbed the Model 71.

I like mine, especially after Steve Young of Steve's Gunz ( www.stevesgunz.com ) fixed and improved it. It shoots straight and hits hard.

Alan Wood · Post by **Alan Wood** » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:51 pm

Mike D. wrote:I certainly don't qualify as an "old head" collector because I turn up my nose at any 1886 made before 1898.

Ok so for us not in the know what's the reason for that?

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:38 am

Alan Wood wrote:
Mike D. wrote:I certainly don't qualify as an "old head" collector because I turn up my nose at any 1886 made before 1898.
Ok so for us not in the know what's the reason for that?

Initially, it didn't start out at way. Like every other collector I only bought "antique" 1886s, but as time went on and prices rose faster than the space program I began to rethink the process. I like to use my rifles as they were intended and the older guns with BP bores were often great looking but often suffer abysmal bores. Post-1899 Winchesters were given little attention, so my collection direction changed. Between the years 1902 and 1911 Winchesters could be ordered in "BP" calibers but with the then recently introduced nickel steel barrels. Those guns have the smokeless powder frames, same as the .33 W.C.F. ones, and can be used with modern powders without fear of an unexpected "explosion". I especially seek specially ordered Extra Lightweight rifles in the so called Black Powder calibers. During the first decade of the 20th Century Winchester discouraged ordering the new lightweight 1886s in the older calibers but did accept them customers who insisted on a brand new rifle in their favorite caliber. The "late" 1886 EL was cataloged in .33 W.C.F. and .45-70, but some were built in calibers .38-56 W.C.F., .40-65 W.C.F., .40-82 W.C.F., .45-90 W.C.F., and .50 EX. I am fortunate to have located ones in .33 W.C.F., .38-56 W.C.F., .45-70, and .45-90 W.C.F. Examples in .40-82 W.C.F. and .50 EX are known to me but currently out of my limited financial reach. I am a champagne collector on a water diet.

Alan Wood · Post by **Alan Wood** » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:57 am

Thank you Mike!

I certainly understand that!

dbateman · Post by **dbateman** » Sun May 13, 2012 10:33 pm

I did do a search but have not come up with much info.

So I thought instead of starting a new thread I would just add to this one.

Dose anyone know if the Mod71 ever came with a sling stud in the stock and not the fore end ?

Thanks.

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Sun May 13, 2012 10:49 pm

The front sling eye was integral to the forfend cap. You've run into something with a mix?

dbateman · Post by **dbateman** » Sun May 13, 2012 11:17 pm

Yeah I have a Mod 71 with a stud on the stock but not on the fore end, it doesn't look like it has been broken off the cap.

Dose this look like a factory stud?
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh93 ... 040058.jpg

Maybe someone fitted the stud to it.

Here is the fore end cap.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh93 ... 040063.jpg

I can get better pics my camera is flat I just need to find the charger.

Edit: it wont let me atach pics because there to big and I don't know how to resize them.

big bear · Post by **big bear** » Mon May 14, 2012 7:50 am

The buttstock stud is not factory. The sling attachment on buttstock was inletted held in place by 2 scews for detachable sling swivels. Stud style not original, in my opinion at least. Get an uncle Mikes barrel band attachment for front, sling up and go hunting with your nice 71. Don't worry about originality, let the estate sale folks sweat that one

dbateman · Post by **dbateman** » Mon May 14, 2012 8:12 am

Thanks.

I am not to worried about the stud I am however very excited to have a Mod 71 been looking for one for a long time.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh93 ... 000722.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh93 ... 000726.jpg

Cant wait to get some ammo loaded up and take her out and have a shot.

big bear · Post by **big bear** » Mon May 14, 2012 10:14 am

Looks like a fine 71, enjoy. A liitle trick for you. Saw a 30-30 shell in half and the neck end makes a great bore guide!

Montana Outfitters · Post by **Montana Outfitters** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:24 pm

Got a Winchester 71......1947.......I shoot it a lot............round balls for grouse at around 500 fps, Rcbs cast hard at around 1850 fps and Hornady 200's at 2575 or so.............no extra holes just iorn sights and tipps over Elk just fine.....no chasing them around......just DRT!!!!!!!!! Would I buy another.........sure and a Jap copy .......No if you look hard you can find a used original for less then the Jap prices.........I got mine at the Winchester
show in Cody with bullets,brass, dies and a case for $900 and it has paid me back with a nice elk to eat and is more then willing to keep on feeding me at no additional charge...................

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:46 pm

I just about choked on coffee seeing Mike's post, before looking at the date.....(a little something in my eyes...) He was a good'un.....Knew more than most of us put together....

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:53 pm

Doc, got a twin to my Browning 1886, some day I will have time to shoot this one too...

WinM71 · Post by **WinM71** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:00 pm

When Winchester laid out their product-release plans, the Model 70 was supposed to be ready for release before the Model 71, hence the numbering. Problems in development, however, caused the Model 70 to be delayed. The result was that the Model 71 was released before the Model 70. The generally accepted date of official release was January 1936. Perhaps the main upgrade from the model 1886 was the improved metallurgy, by which the 1886 platform was made suitable for the .348 cartridge. In the "Dope Bag" column in the January 1936 American Rifleman there was a very brief teaser with the header NEW LEVER ACTION COMING. "To be reviewed next month, a new hunting rifle with improved action, sling, modern stock and peep sights; caliber .348, apparently a rimmed form of the .35 Remington". Obviously the author didn't have any solid information on the new cartridge when he wrote the piece. In the next month's issue, February 1936, Dope Bag author F.C. Ness provided a lengthy (about 2 1/2 pages) write-up on the new rifle and cartridge.

tman · Post by **tman** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:31 pm

71/,348WCF combo was designed as a hunters/explorer arm for alaska. out to 250 yards it will take big game. Close up with the 200 grain silvertip it will take kodiak bear. The rifle/cartridge combo was designed to feed slickley under adverse conditions. Those winchester engineers of the 1920's and 30's knew what they were doing. of course,in modern times the puny 348 will bounce off of a black bear and drop 7 feet at 100 yards, making it a barely adequite squirrel rifle ,only if u can get close enough

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:40 pm

I just about choked on coffee seeing Mike's post, before looking at the date.....(a little something in my eyes...) He was a good'un.....Knew more than most of us put together....

I had the exact same reaction Blaine. He and I were going to get together on his family's ranch in Hollister to go shoot but we could never get our schedules right (he lived around Sacramento IIRC) and would have to come down to the ranch. I feel bad I wasn't even around here when he passed on.

-Tutt

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:56 pm

BlaineG wrote: I just about choked on coffee seeing Mike's post, before looking at the date.....(a little something in my eyes...) He was a good'un.....Knew more than most of us put together....

Mike was a great guy. Kinda tired of losing all the good 'uns...

6pt-sika · Post by **6pt-sika** » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:20 pm

To be honest when I first traded comments or barbs with him I didn't really care for the guy .

But later on I saw I had jumped a little to quick . He checked out several Winchesters for me a couple years before he left this world . I never asked he sent me a PM and offerred which I thought was way above and beyond .

Ragnor · Post by **Ragnor** » Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:51 am

I really enjoy shooting and hunting with my Winchester 71 (1937) vintage. The 348 is a great cartridge for hunting, I find it accurate and loaded with Hornady 200 gr puts game down fast. With the Aoudad, I had a shot through the front shoulder at an angle and passed completely through. Range approx. 60 yrds. I also shoot a 50 Alaskan but need further load development with it. If its levergun power you want, the 50 Alaskan in a 71 would fit the bill.

mod71alaska · Post by **mod71alaska** » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:46 pm

Ragnor wrote:I really enjoy shooting and hunting with my Winchester 71 (1937) vintage. The 348 is a great cartridge for hunting, I find it accurate and loaded with Hornady 200 gr puts game down fast. With the Aoudad, I had a shot through the front shoulder at an angle and passed completely through. Range approx. 60 yrds. I also shoot a 50 Alaskan but need further load development with it. If its levergun power you want, the 50 Alaskan in a 71 would fit the bill.

Very nice photo...good looking 71 Deluxe and trophy! A very happy guy in the middle, too!