OT S&W Revolvers

[Otto]

Am I correct in my belief that the Models 25 and 29 are the same gun, different chambering? I know they are both 'N' frames, but...

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/ ... rrorView_Y

[jdad]

The 27 & 28 are also "N" frames.

[GoatGuy]

As I remember it - The model 25, as pictured, was originally chambered in .45 acp used 1/2 moon clips, and had a shortened cylinder. It was a target revolver. Sometime later (1980's?) S&W began chambering it in .45 Colt. The early Mod 25 .45 Colt had some accuracy issues, but I believe that was resolved in the 90's or very early 2000's. As you will note, the M 25 pictured on the referenced site has a Patridge style front sight, as did the .45 acp version. The original .45 Colt version had a ramped front sight in barrel lengths of 4" and 6".

The Model 29 was designed from the start chambered as a .44 S&W Magnum. That has continued to this date. Over the years it has been produced in a few iterations, notably one with a full underlug barrel and one with an adjustable front sight. The m 29 is generally seen with the ramp front sight in all barrel lengths. The M 29 had a reputation of developing some issues after firing a large quantity of high pressure 44 mag loads, primarily seen in the chicken, turkey, pig and ram competitions. At some point this was mitigated by some re-engineering of the revolver and later versions are said to be much sturdier.

Hope this brief report answers your questions. I recommend that you search the Smith&Wesson forum for additional info regarding these two seperate models.

[firefuzz]

Both are the same frame size and use the same grips, holsters, and internal parts. I don't know if there's any difference in the heat treatment or testing of frames used for magnums or not.

These guns are the "N" frame: (don't paste this in your Bible, but I'm pretty sure this is the complete list of "N" frames)

fixed sight versions

Mod 20 .38/44
Mod 21 .44 spec
Mod 22 .45acp
Mod 58 .41 mag

adjustable sight versions
Mod 23 .38/44
Mod 24 .44 spec
Mod 25 .45acp/.45colt
Mod 27 .357 mag
Mod 28 .357 mag
Mod 29 .44 mag
Mod 57 .41 mag

There was also a model 610 "N" frame chambered in 10mm, to my knowledge is was never made in a blue steel version.

A "6" prefix to any of these denotes the guns manufacture material of stainless steel. Dash numbers (-2) mean design changes to the original design of that model.

Rob

[firefuzz]

As I remember it - The model 25, as pictured, was originally chambered in .45 acp used 1/2 moon clips, and had a shortened cylinder.

The Model 25 is interesting as far as S&W's go. The 25-2 was in 45acp as stated, the 25-5 was chambered in .45 colt. The cylinder of the 25-2 was shorter than the 25-5, the barrel extended into the frame further. What a lot of people don't know it there was a 25-3, very limited run anniversary special, that was chambered in .45 colt that used the barrel and overall cylinder length of the 25-2 .45acp. I had a 6" 25-2 with a .25-3 cylinder fitted to it at the factory back in the 80's. Foolishly I let the gun get away from me.

Rob

[Otto]

I think I have my answer. If I had one of each, blued with 6-1/2" barrel, and changed the front sight to a ramp, would you be able to tell them apart without looking at the rollmarks?

Do speedloaders for the 25-5 work for all the .45 Colt iterations?

Thanks for all the responses.

[Booger Bill]

I dont know about the heat treating, they say they are heat treated different. For me that is hard to belive. Sure seems to me if your doing thousands of frames and clyinders at a time that it would be just as easy, IF NOT EASIER to heat treat them all the same at the same time. I have been a skeptic on that tale for 50 years! I have a 5" 29-2 and a 5" 544 44-40 texas trail commemerative. I cant tell them apart except for the clyinder length and engraveing. The same for a 4" 25-5 that I have.

[J Miller]

I will tell you this. My early 80s 25-5 is not heat treated the same as the 29s. At around 8000 rounds it's already had the end shake fixed twice and all the central locking parts replaced. The hole in the frame the cylinder center pin locks into has become egg shaped. This is with standard pressure loads.

My late 50s Mdl 28 has nearly the same round count and has to be retimed about every 3000 rounds.

My friends 29-2 has been retimed as well.

None of the early ones hold up to magnum pressures or big bore continual use. They are after all a hundred plus year old design and NEVER intended for magnum pressures.

S&W fixed this a bit starting in the late 80s with the endurance packages on the 29s, but to what extent this has helped I do not know.

With the advent of the Klinton agreement, MIM parts and key lock I totally lost any interest in anything to do with S&W. I've kept mine for home defense guns and they almost never see any range time.

Joe

[GoatGuy]

Do speedloaders for the 25-5 work for all the .45 Colt iterations?

I would expect so.

[firefuzz]

I dont know about the heat treating, they say they are heat treated different. For me that is hard to belive. Sure seems to me if your doing thousands of frames and clyinders at a time that it would be just as easy, IF NOT EASIER to heat treat them all the same at the same time. I have been a skeptic on that tale for 50 years! I have a 5" 29-2 and a 5" 544 44-40 texas trail commemerative. I cant tell them apart except for the clyinder length and engraveing. The same for a 4" 25-5 that I have.

Like I said earlier, I don't know about differences in the heat treating and testing of the "N" frames. I do know that prior to about '76 the cylinders for "K" frame .357 mags were X-rayed and the other "K" frames weren't. After that a new, cheaper method allowed all of them to tested.

To answer you speed loader question Otto...yes.

Rob

[CaptainFinn]

There was also a limited-edition Model 544, a blued, adjustable sighted N-frame in .44-40, and a 520, a blued, fixed-sight .357 magnum.

[Malamute]

The gun in the picture you linked has the tapered barrel like the 1950's and the 44 spl's, not the heavier untapered barrel like the 25-5's and 29's have. Most of the tapered 6" barrel N frames seemed to come out with the squared, target type front blade, rather than the ramped front sight. Some front blades were integral with the barrel forging, and some were pinned on and can be changed relatively easily. I believe most later guns had the sight blade integral. Havent seen any new ones closely enough to see how they're attached.

[bobbyjack]

Both are the same frame size and use the same grips, holsters, and internal parts. I don't know if there's any difference in the heat treatment or testing of frames used for magnums or not.

These guns are the "N" frame: (don't paste this in your Bible, but I'm pretty sure this is the complete list of "N" frames)

fixed sight versions

Mod 20 .38/44
Mod 21 .44 spec
Mod 22 .45acp
Mod 58 .41 mag

adjustable sight versions
Mod 23 .38/44
Mod 24 .44 spec
Mod 25 .45acp/.45colt
Mod 27 .357 mag
Mod 28 .357 mag
Mod 29 .44 mag
Mod 57 .41 mag

There was also a model 610 "N" frame chambered in 10mm, to my knowledge is was never made in a blue steel version.

A "6" prefix to any of these denotes the guns manufacture material of stainless steel. Dash numbers (-2) mean design changes to the original design of that model.

Rob

You left out the Model 17 ,one of the first N frames in .45acp.

Bob

[Ray Newman]

"You left out the Model 17 ,one of the first N frames in .45acp."
--bobbyjack

The S&W Model 17 is a K frame, 22 LR. It is identical to the Model 14, 38 Spec'l. The Model 18, a .22 LR K frame, is identical to the Model 15, 38 Spec'l. The Model 19, 357 magnum is another K frame.

The S&W contracted to build N frame .45 ACP Model of 1917 for US WWI use as a result of a shortage of M1911/1911A1 pistols. Colt also built a .45 ACP Model of 1917 revolver.

[awp101]

There was also a model 610 "N" frame chambered in 10mm, to my knowledge is was never made in a blue steel version.

I thought the 610 was an L Frame? Guess I need to check The Book when I get home.

[Homer Simpson]Mmmmmmmm, pre-83 S&W revolvers...[/Homer Simpson]

[Idahoser]

aside from heat treatment, the remaining wall thickness of the chambers is thinner on the larger caliber. A LOT thinner.

[Booger Bill]

Someone said a 45 acp was a model 17. It wasnt! I think it was a slip of the lip and they meant "1917"! I own about a dozzen S&Ws, and through the years owned many more. As far as N frames go, right now I own a 29-2, 27-2, 544 (44-40 texas wagon trail commemerative), a 1917, a triplelock, a model 24-3, a pre 24 target, and a old HD that I had converted to .44 special. Many look alike. There are variations in the barrels, heavy- straight as opposed to light-thin (pencil). Wide or narrow hammers & triggers, full or half length ejector houseings, sights, stocks, finishs etc. Probley the biggest differance is the magnums are heat treated different, so they say! My 544 and model 29, and 25-5 "Look" identical. Choices is what keeps the market going.

[medicdave]

On the L frame it was the 646 in 40s&w. Some have been converted to 10mm but not so wise imho. 610's are N frames.

[CJM]

There was also the Model 26, 45 ACP and 45 Colt with the tapered barrel instead of the heavy barrel of the Model 25.

[Idahoser]

I once had a .45Colt 625 Mountain Gun. Tapered barrel. Couldn't get to like the ports, got rid of it. Loved it otherwise, and started my quest for a 629 Mountain Revolver, which I'd love to find when I can afford it.

[HEAD0001]

I have been looking pretty hard at the Model 25 in 45 Colt. There are some pretty big differences. The major change came along in the 25-5 model. Up to and including the early 25-5's the barrel was pinned and the cylinders were over bore. From what I understand the cylinder was .4545 All the models up until then had accuracy issues because the cylinder bore did not match the barrel bore.

Then later in the 25-5 series S&W went to the non-pinned barrel and bought new tooling to cut the cylinder's to proper diameter. Then they brought out the 25-7(most were non-fluted cylinders).You guys may remember the 25-7. It is the one that says----"45 caliber model of 1989" on the barrel.

I am looking for a good 25-7 revolver with the 6" barrel. Tom.