.357 mag levergun as a "bad times" gun

[N40W111]

I've been kinda wonderin' at everyone's opinion as to the concept of a .357 mag. levergun as maybe the perfect "bad times" gun. By "bad times" I mean serious civil insurrection, looting, protecting your home from roving bands of troublemakers...etc.
Not to be a fatalist but I believe that such times are coming in this country and without getting into a big political discussion, how do you feel the .357 mag would measure up?
I find that it is inexpensive to shoot, easy to reload, and has sufficient power inside of 100 yds. With cast bullets, I think it might be just the ticket. Frankly, one of the reasons I shoot at all is because I feel such times are on the horizon and I want to be prepared but not look for trouble. I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of a .357 mag. at neighborhood distances.
Opinions? If not .357 mag. then what levergun do you consider as ideal for such a scenario and why?

[mran1126]

I have both the .357 and .44 mag. I like them both, but I think I would take the .44 mag in the situation you describe. Still easy to reload for and ammo is also pretty available. I just like sending more lead down range. More lead,,,,more damage.

[Streetstar]

It would work, and i currently use a .44 Mag lever gun for home defense and late night coyote medicine -- but for situations like you are describing (end of civilization scenarios) , i truly think a magazine fed rifle would be more closely tailored to that situation. Roving bands of miscreants in theory, may demand reloading, etc.

As i said, i am more than confident in the levergun for home defense , but i have several rifles in my safe that are better for a real firefight
You dont have to get a "black rifle" -- Mini-14. M1A, a nice Garand, M1 Carbine, a few others would fill the bill nicely

[Tristan]

Either the 357 mag, or the 30-30 would fit the bill. The 357 will do most anything that needs doing, though the 30-30 will have considerably more range if necessary.

The 357 gets points for the quantity of ammo it can carry in it's mag, and the relative power for weight of the ammo, as top end loads are encroaching on the power of the 30-30. The ability to use 38 specials which are relatively inexpensive, is a plus if you like to practice a lot.

I think the cost of components for the reloader are a plus for the pistol caliber, as well, if efficiency is of paramount importance.

Nothing wrong with the 44, either...

Personally, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of any of them!

[gundownunder]

The 357 takes 10 rounds of man stopping ammo and can be reloaded on the fly every time you get a spare second to shove another round in.
If thats not enough then the gunfight is probably too big for you to fight your way out of alive, no matter how much firepower you have.
Don't forget, the heathen hoards will probably be well armed too and may also be well organized.
Anything bigger than 357 is just more of a good thing but will weigh more if you need to carry it and will probably cost more too.

[2X22]

That was my Dads choice back in 1957 when he felt the same thing was on the horizon. A 20" Winchester '92 in .357 was the perfect compliment for the new Ruger .357 FT that he had just purchased. It continues in the same role today, his plinkin' gun, his huntin' rifle and his home protection rifle. For 53 years, he's shot nothing but cast in it saving the same 600 jacketed bullets from as far back as I can remember for the day when things got 'tough' and he needed to load 'em up

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree and I went with a few .44 Marlin Cowboys for the same reason(s).

2x22

[tman]

M4 and a Glock 18.

[rjohns94]

you could do a whole lot worse than .357 in a levergun. I think there are other more suitable but if I was stuck with my 92 in .357 and a sixgun in the same caliber, i would "make do"

[bigbore442001]

Don't feel so bad about that opinion. Many people share it as we see societies in general seem to fall into some sort of social malaise. I would feel more comfortable with a decent battle rifle like an M1 Garand or M14. You may want to be able to reach out and touch someone if you need to do so. When it comes to protecting family, that is what may have to happen.

[Chas.]

Not to be a fatalist but I believe that such times are coming in this country...

If I really believed that, I would have a turret on the roof with a Ma Deuce and empty my 401K to completely stock up on ammo for it. For carry-around I would have the guns with the highest cap mags I could get. Or I could just pack up and move to the Carribean.

[AJMD429]

This 'Night Chore' gun, so-named because when me or the kids go out to check the livestock or close up the barns, etc., sometimes we encounter coyotes or potentially rabid raccoons or whatever, and wanted something with a bit more 'oomph' than a .22 LR, but NOT something with blinding muzzle-flash, and required hearing protection, which ruled out things like an AR-15 or M-1A, often considered the 'traditional' "bad times" gun.



So, after looking over the choices, we put a light and night-capable sight on the Marlin .357 levergun, and are gradually working out sight choices and loads, but it sure seems good for the tasks we need in "good times", namely:

• lightweight enough to be easy for even an 80-lb kid to carry,
  handy to sling over the shoulder while carrying water buckets, hay, etc.,
  weatherproof enough that if we're willing to go outside, it will do well enough,
  powerful enough even with .38 Special loads, to deal with normal 'varmints',
  and though not likely to be so needed, adequate for self-defense,
  accurate enough out to 150 yards to drop a coyote or other varmint,
  more humane than a .22 LR for larger varmints,
  plenty of capacity for what we'd encounter - even the occasional dozen-pack of feral dogs,
  simple to operate so that all family members of all ages are able to use it safely,
  relatively inexpensive so we could get a second one if needed, and don't worry about 'dings' in the stock, etc.

For "bad times", add the fact that:

• It can shoot darn near any bullets and any powders,
  Cases can be reloaded many times, even with an original Lee Loader kit,
  It isn't as likely to be banned early on as the 'evil black rifle' type guns,
  Although not 'high capacity', it can be 'topped off' while loaded and in battery,
  It may be less useful than an M-60 during "bad times", but IS very useful NOW...

So, I agree - the .357 levergun is close to the perfect "bad times" gun...!

I agree that a .44 Mag or .45 Colt could easily serve the same role, though - but in the average household, there are likely MORE individuals who can easily handle a .357 Mag. Carbine (especially using the widely available .38 Special loads), than a .44 Mag. Carbine (even with the less available .44 Special loads).

Any of those three that you have handguns chambered in, should do - quite NICELY... Plenty of components or better yet, loaded ammo would help; during a 'lights out', no-internet, no-stores-open period of any length, you'll have little time to spend at the reloading press.

[kaschi]

The gun you have in your hands when the proverbial "bad times" is THE bad times gun. It beats no gun at all. Better prepare with a set up like an AR15 or AK47 combined with a handgun like a Beretta 92, SIG 226, CZ75 in 9mm or a Colt 1911 in 45 ACP.

[adirondakjack]

The gun you have in your hands when the proverbial "bad times" is THE bad times gun. It beats no gun at all. Better prepare with a set up like an AR15 or AK47 combined with a handgun like a Beretta 92, SIG 226, CZ75 in 9mm or a Colt 1911 in 45 ACP.

I believe the gun you shoot best and have ammo for would be the best. That said, if it goes bang and throws lead reliably, I wouldn't turn it away in "bad times".

[Nate C.]

It would work, and i currently use a .44 Mag lever gun for home defense and late night coyote medicine -- but for situations like you are describing (end of civilization scenarios) , i truly think a magazine fed rifle would be more closely tailored to that situation. Roving bands of miscreants in theory, may demand reloading, etc.

I must say I like the way you think, but I truly think a belt-fed, crew-served weapon (better yet--two of them--with interlocking fields of fire) would be even more closely tailored to that situation!

[Streetstar]

It would work, and i currently use a .44 Mag lever gun for home defense and late night coyote medicine -- but for situations like you are describing (end of civilization scenarios) , i truly think a magazine fed rifle would be more closely tailored to that situation. Roving bands of miscreants in theory, may demand reloading, etc.

I must say I like the way you think, but I truly think a belt-fed, crew-served weapon (better yet--two of them--with interlocking fields of fire) would be even more closely tailored to that situation!

I dont know if your reply was sarcastic or not, but --I somewhat agree with you ! --- although i could likely not teach Cupcake, Dixie and friends (my dogs-- the wife will be underground) to crew a 249 SAW.
I've messed around with carbine drills enough with my Marlin 94 to realize that it is fine if thats all you have, but is not much comparison to the more modern ammo burners ( a Garand and an m1 Carbine are hardly modern --- plus, the AR has been around for FIFTY years --- yeah, 50. The HK 91 and variants are not far behind) 10 rounds out of a carbine is plenty for a peace time rifle , even a "home defense" rifle ---- but using the OP's terms, -- 10 rounds aint that much. Slamming home another full mag is tons easier to stay on top of than thumbing cartridges through at every available downtime. Again, using the Op's terms of dealing with multiple aggressive tangoes, not just 1 or 2 stupid crackheads at a time
Multiple targets may require expending more than 10 pretty fast if we account a couple of strss related "misses" in there . Not all of us are as well versed or shoot as much as Mike Venturino (the gun journalist who took a Winnie 92 to a carbine course, or Ashley from XS sights)

This board is full of throwbacks, and i love that --- I am somewhat affectionately treated like a throwback too because i hunt with a Guide Gun (which is a modern firearm on this board) rather than a new BDL in 7mm RM. but please, when it comes to problematic situations, many of us would have to begrudgingly admit that a more modern rifle with a stack of 20 and 30 round pre-loaded magazines is easier to deal with than a tube magazin rifle or carbine and a dump bag full of loose .357 fodder under a high stress environment.

If a guy lives very modestly and has super tight budgetary concerns, i understand (although someone with those concerns may not have a $600 .357 carbine) , but if one is more flexible , use the leverguns for everything under the sun that you want -- but keep a "relatively" inexpensive AR and a case of ammo handy. Or an AK variant -- the 5.45 especially is an economical shooter.
I'm a big one to talk, as i was budgeting towards a 6920 Colt, but spent the money on a Winny 94 Trapper instead

[MrMurphy]

Having spent thousands of hours carrying an M4 on duty, that is my first choice.

But a .357 or .30-30 is far from useless. You just have to stay on top of things a lot more. I had a .44 Marlin as my only rifle immediately after coming home from a 3 yr tour overseas, and you could do far worse at close range.


If things came down to it and ARs were not an option anymore, i'd personally run an iron-sighted or low power scoped bolt action, but a '92, '73 or similar in .357 will do good work, as would any Winchester or Marlin .30-30......just bring friends. Helps when it comes to reloading downtime.

[El Chivo]

that's why I got mine - the round is the police #1 manstopper, it's the handiest carbine and ammo, you can fit more in the mag, sure it's short range but then so is your urban gunfight.

Roving gangs of toughs would probably disperse once you took out the alpha male.

I've been re-reading my books on Stalingrad and most of the Russians ditched their rifles in favor of tommy guns for street fighting.

[firefuzz]

you could do a whole lot worse than .357 in a levergun. I think there are other more suitable but if I was stuck with my 92 in .357 and a sixgun in the same caliber, i would "make do"

Plus 1.

Rob

[RIHMFIRE]

if it ever hits the fan.....
you will want more than a 357.....
add a 12 ga pump and 00 buck...

[madman4570]

For what you desribe I think the .357 is great!
Though cheaper to reload with the cast bullets,myself for the protection you wish to maintain I would have my gun loaded with 125gr JHP's or CCI/Speer Gold Dots. I also would have them down loaded to be coming out of the barrel at 1400-1500 fps from the rifle.
Looking over one of my old HANDGUNS magazines (October 1999)the Texas Highway Patrol did a huge study comparison and found about the perfect man stopper is a 125 JHP clocking between 1400-1500fps.That seemed the "perfect"velocity giving the bullets design!

I found it interesting that they switched to the Sig P226 in .357 Sig(but that bad guy/animal dont know the difference if its coming from a .357 Sig or .357 Mag if its the same bullet/velocity
Also interesting was they(Sgt.Ken Pittman)fired a Sig P226 300,000 rounds without a single stoppage until the night sight inserts melted

[FF1063]

What on earth is the device just ahead of the red dot sight?

[L_Kilkenny]

I'm not a believer in bad times FOR WHERE I LIVE. But if you believe that could happen WHERE YOU LIVE than a lever gun doesn't even make my top 5. Maybe not even top 10. Let's face it if were indeed perfect than it would be the military choice. It's not. Give me mag fed semi auto rifle first and probably followed by a 12 shotgun. Does that mean a lever gun is worthless? Heck no. It has the advantage of being less intimidating in public and is a handy, quick rifle. I feel fine with a lever action because I don't see mass conflict happening and if I'm wrong and it does happen, the lever gun is far from lame. But if you are really thinkin urban conflict WILL HAPPEN than you really need to rethink your gun of choice or start thinkin of your .357 lever as a way to acquire better guns.

LK

[MrMurphy]

Yup.

If it had happened where "Ban #2" had gone in place before I could acquire more modern weaponry the plan was for twin leverguns and a shotgun (wife has shot a 12ga and did not care to repeat the experience).

She has shot up to .303 off the bench with no particular problem, but if 5.56 wasn't available, .357 packs a good punch in the range she can accurately shoot quickly (100 yards) with a good capacity as a backup gunner. As the primary, being trained, I'd use a .30-30 most likely for commonality and size appropriateness backed up by a 870 or Mossberg 590.

A levergun doesn't mean you're out of the fight. But it's not ideal. Much like Cooper's Scout rifle concept, one man alone in a fight is fairly well screwed to begin with. A lever or a bolt can let you get off a couple fast aimed rounds while exiting stage left, if needed, topping off and delaying the bad guys with some more well placed rounds.

In a close in fight, either is in trouble. Not so much for shot-to-shot speed, but when you get a "click". Especially for tubefed rifles.......hope you have a pistol with you. Older stripper-fed magazine rifles aren't so bad on speed but still suffer compared to a magswap on a M16 series, etc. rifle.

Two guys with levers and bolts, just like with modern rifles, would be better as one covers the other while the rifle is out of action.

If it's what you got on hand, you're better off than with a sharp stick. But if serious trouble is coming....get something more modern..or better......move.

[Rifleman336]

Lets see Jeff Cooper (a man that liked the scout rifle), Boston T. Party AKA Kenneth Royce (M-14 man) Clint Smith head of Thunder Ranch Shooting school (AR-16 man), Gabrel Suareze, head of the Suareze International (AK-47 man) and Mossad Ayoob Lethal Force Institute instructor, Policeman and gun writer (AR-15 / Mini-14 man), all say the same thing if you can't or don't want to own an assault rifle, that the lever action is the gun to have.

.357 Magnum can shoot a lot further than 100-150 yards against hostile erect bipeds, At 500 yards it has the hitting power of a standard .38 SPL from a 4" revolver if you use say Buffalo Bores 180gr bullets out of a 16"+ barrel, but you will need to put on a peep, ladder or scope, and change the the front to a more squared model for better "line up". Then you practice, practice and practice until you get it right.

On the more practical side if modern Smokeless powder becomes extinct you can still load it with Black Powder, you won't get the velocity but it beats a stick.

With a 77Gr "Button Wadcutter" NEI cast bullet, one can single load a .38 Spl case and kill Squirrel and Rabbit without vaporizing it!!!

So a .357 will do if you will do.

Rifleman 336

[Otto]

That was my Dads choice back in 1957 when he felt the same thing was on the horizon...

Refresh my memory: what was going on during that time to make him feel that way? Just the general unease of the Cold War, or something more specific?

[Otto]

I'm not a believer in bad times FOR WHERE I LIVE. But if you believe that could happen WHERE YOU LIVE than a lever gun doesn't even make my top 5. Maybe not even top 10. Let's face it if were indeed perfect than it would be the military choice. It's not. Give me mag fed semi auto rifle first and probably followed by a 12 shotgun. Does that mean a lever gun is worthless? Heck no. It has the advantage of being less intimidating in public and is a handy, quick rifle. I feel fine with a lever action because I don't see mass conflict happening and if I'm wrong and it does happen, the lever gun is far from lame. But if you are really thinkin urban conflict WILL HAPPEN than you really need to rethink your gun of choice or start thinkin of your .357 lever as a way to acquire better guns.

LK

I like AR's and agree that one of those or an AK would be an excellent choice for this purpose, but I think you're expressing way too much faith in the people who run the military, and those who control the purse-strings. Just sayin'.

[Ron Macy]

Over several years I made fortunate and cheap purchases of Marlin .357, 44 and 30-30 rifles. The .357 came with 400 rounds of reload 38 Spl and I now have 100 rounds of 44 Mag ammo. I sold the 30-30 to get the 44 Mag ammo plus dies and a couple of pounds of powder.

I have a rifle my wife and I can shoot comfortably and expect them and my .22 to handle anything coming my way. If I had a .32 even in a NEF Single shot I'd be in hog heaven.

[JohndeFresno]

You could do much worse, I think, than having a .357 Mag levergun for survival. Even better with a matching handgun for concealment or for carrying when the long arm is not at hand.

I still tend toward the .30-30, however.

Sure, the levergun that uses it provides a quick and light, very handy platform. And the ammo is commonly found. And it is easy and relatively cheap to hand load as rifle rounds go.

But more importantly, in almost every movie I have seen, the .30-30 that hits a hero allows him to recover; but also permanently ends the villain's onslaught and even his career with one shot. It's a miracle round, I tell you!

[rodeo kid]

Well, my family and I have thought about this and are ready. My wife did choose our Marlin 1894 in .357, with a Winchester 94 .22mag as backup and her Ruger LCR. My son chose the AR-15 and a Marlin 1895 in .45-70 as backup and Colt Python for sidearm. My choices are my AK-47 and a Winchester 8 round riot gun with a Browning Hi-power for sidearm. So there are three lever actions. We hope and pray nothing ever happens but are determined not to be helpless if it does. We live on 20 acres and have a long driveway and good dogs that will bark a warning. God Bless.

[Arminius]

Very, VERY good points in this thread!

IMHO "TEOTWAWKI" will not be "that" declarised as a "General War".

Which means it will start "low level", and ther WILL be some kind of "Authority" around, although not at ALL times! ALWAYS, EVER consider that your actions will be "discussed" in court !!!!

There´s where Survival starts.

IMHO a .357 Mag LA is an EXCELLENT choice for the scenario outlined!

The most popular ammo in the world will be something like:

9 mm

5.56

7.62 M 43

the curious chinese 5.8 mm round

...

7.62 x 54 R

.308???

.38 spl

...

7.62 mm x 25

...

9 mm Makarov

...

.45

.357

....

7.65 x 17

.30-06

.44

9 mm Corto

...

( please: this is for discussion, read; provocation! And excludes RF and shotgun ammo )

-------------------->>>

so MY choice would ALWAYS include a 9 mm ( Luger/Parabellum/x19 )!!!

E.G. a double stack 9mm handgun ( a HiPower, two HiPowers, three HiPowers and one G 17, several HiPowers and a CZ 75 and a G 17 and a G 19 ... ,-) =

and a single shot, extremely accurate and portable 9 mm "long"(er) gun, e.g. a Rem Rolling Block in 9 mm. ( or load up 9 mm bullets in .38/.357 cases??? SINGLE loaded!! )

THEN a .357 LA! ( and PERHAPS!! a handgun to accompany it )

No, in a ITSHTF scenary "bigger is better" is NOT always true --- imagine that you have to actually CARRY your supplies ALL THE TIME!!

So, a .357 and 38´s beat .44´s EVERYTIME!

There comes the "Meat getter" AND "minimum Level" defensive gun into play, and there´s only ONE caliber in the world, to fill the Bill:

a .22 Rim Fire

Mostly .22 lr, but a supply of shorts will be nice to keep weight down and it will do in small game. In a ( handy ) rifle, and/or in an accurate handgun, too?

On another thought I have to confess that some of Cornel Cooper´s ideas look reasonable, like a .308 with big ( more than 5 rounds ) mag capacity and Q Change mags for "most Problems"!

an Enfield No 5 ?

a Steyr Scout with several 10 rd mags?

Don´t forget cleaning supplies, as you have to maintan your guns for a looooong time.

and we are only speaking GUNS and AMMO!!!

Hermann

P.S.: i have an AR 15, and it´s a FINE arm. But in a ITSHTF scenario I harldy would walk around with that!! And I would take a 9 mm Parabellum handgun any day of the week over a .45 ACP!

P.P.S.: a number, one per person in the household, of extremely small guns, totally inocuous and with only limited amount of spare ammo would help in certain scenarios: TPH and PPK.

P.P.P.S.: And a .300 Win Mag sniper rifle would be MIGHTY fine in some circumstances.

AND please consider::

---->> 12 ga shells are HEAVY!!! Dispatch what disturbes or interests you with a .22 lr ...

[Hankster]

Get and practice with you .357... enjoy it. Get lots of ammo for it. Learn to shoot a squirrels eye out with it. Now, IF the bad times scenario ever pops up... with your SKILLS, you will obtain that "black weapon" from some bozo, who imposes on your "comfort zone" who is NOT so skilled.... problem solved. If bad times never occurs... what are you out?? Nothing.. so buy the toys you want, enjoy life, and don't sweat it so hard! I sold my MBR a while back.... have toys I want NOW.... and have no doubt, if anyone were to come around HERE during such times, I'll score, he'll lose. So, ENJOY life!

[2X22]

That was my Dads choice back in 1957 when he felt the same thing was on the horizon...

Refresh my memory: what was going on during that time to make him feel that way? Just the general unease of the Cold War, or something more specific?

Nothing specific, he had seen terrible action in the Korean war and wasn't long out of the Army. Russia was showing they weren't our friends and he was concerned that things could go south quickly. 53 years later he's still ready!

2x22

[Lawyer Daggit]

I have owned and hunted wild pig with a Browning 92 in 357 and one in 44 magnum and also a Winchester 94 30-30.

I own the Winchester and the 92 44 magnum but not the 357.

Unless you own and use 357 handguns it is too much of a compromise to bother using from a rifle.

Its max effective range is a lot less than the 44 as is its max payload. I cannot be bothered with it.

If I had a 357 wheel gun I would definitely own one ditto if I lived in a city.

[Cliff]

Lots of comments most of them I agree with. Of course I have a bunch of other rifles, handguns and such. I like the .357 leveraction as it is a polite to shoot rifle,which helps. Only problem I have is deciding which bullet other than cast to use, big selection, but I do tend to favor either the 158 soft points or the 180 grainer. So many decisions to make it is hard to be retired with so much time on my hands.

[Jason_W]

How bad are these bad times? If we're talking a really bad disaster that knocks our civilization back a ways, I'd rather have a lever action rifle, break action shotgun, and other low tech weapons. Why? Because I'm fairly sure that I could craft many replacement parts for such guns myself, or have a blacksmith/metalworker craft them by hand. Can the same be said for a gas driven semi-auto? Also, most lever action rounds can be loaded with home made black powder and cast bullets, but the 5.56 cannot.

If bad times a consist of a localized disaster that makes law enforcement coverage spotty, then I would admittedly have the hi-cap military style rifle in case a horde of local gremlins decides they want what is in my house.

[Arminius]

Lots of comments most of them I agree with. Of course I have a bunch of other rifles, handguns and such. I like the .357 leveraction as it is a polite to shoot rifle,which helps. Only problem I have is deciding which bullet other than cast to use, big selection, but I do tend to favor either the 158 soft points or the 180 grainer. So many decisions to make it is hard to be retired with so much time on my hands.

I also think, a 158 grs JSP with flat tip would be VERY nice!

Hermann

[Arminius]

I have owned and hunted wild pig with a Browning 92 in 357 and one in 44 magnum and also a Winchester 94 30-30.

I own the Winchester and the 92 44 magnum but not the 357.

....

If I had a 357 wheel gun I would definitely own one ditto if I lived in a city.

Dear Sir!

If we would be talking about HUNTING, you are 100 % correct. As a matter of fact, for under 130 m I would prefer the .44 Mag - I own two, but intend to stock up!



( a B 92 and a Win 94 without safety ).

But for ammunition availability and transportability the .357 is second only to the 9 mm Parabellum!

BOTH will put down most "targets" in an ITSHTF scenario ( and use less weight, powder, lead! ):

small edible game and two and small four legged predators ( Wolfs, Coyotes, marauding Dogs, ... )

Hermann

[AJMD429]

How bad are these bad times? If we're talking a really bad disaster that knocks our civilization back a ways, I'd rather have a lever action rifle, break action shotgun, and other low tech weapons. Why? Because I'm fairly sure that I could craft many replacement parts for such guns myself, or have a blacksmith/metalworker craft them by hand. Can the same be said for a gas driven semi-auto? Also, most lever action rounds can be loaded with home made black powder and cast bullets, but the 5.56 cannot. If bad times a consist of a localized disaster that makes law enforcement coverage spotty, then I would admittedly have the hi-cap military style rifle in case a horde of local gremlins decides they want what is in my house.

Yep - depends on what you mean by 'bad times' -

If it means loss of job and no money, whatever gun sells on the used market for the most money might be the ideal one.

If it means long-term on-your-own conditions, a Muzzleloader that can use smokeless powder, plus bunches of primers and sabots, may be the best thing, perhaps along with a .22 LR and some bricks of ammo.

If it is rapid-onset total chaos and mobs, a high capacity semiauto would be likeliest to slow down a mob.

If it is just 'gradual deterioration of society' with 'increased police presence, marked by corruption and abuse of authority', which is MORE likely in the near future, a handgun for CCW may save the day, with hopefully innocent-looking companion levergun carbines in the same chambering. If you're a 'semiauto' person for CCW, then a Ruger P-series in 9mm or .40 S&W with the Ruger semiauto would make sense, or if you like the .45 ACP, then your 1911, with a Marlin Camp Carbine or other same-magazine rifle would work.

[Catshooter]

The last three years reinforced a lesson for me that I learned long ago.

It makes no difference how "common" your calibers are or aren't. In bad times it's what you have. It's not what you can get, because by definition during bad times you can't get it.

People talk about having commonality with their local cops or the military as if that will help them. But them boys are also having a hard time getting what they need too!

If you don't have it, it's not there.


Cat

[AJMD429]

What on earth is the device just ahead of the red dot sight?

A pistol laser designed to go on a 1911 or similar gun with a 'rail' under the barrel. It's flat enough to sit out of sight (for the shooter) in front of the little Burris Fastfire, yet puts a red pulsing dot on the target pretty much where the holographic sight 'puts' its red dot. At night, it definitely helps to deal with scurrying varmints coming out of the chicken coop, where you've go no light but the flashlight (and the 'scatter' from the laser) and the critter may be only visible for a half second before it ducks under a fence. Since I really prefer 'iron' sights, I like the idea of some redundancy as well, should one of the electronic ones poop out at the wrong time.

If the gun were to be used for home defense, where a homeowner might have to fire from an awkward position, perhaps knocked down or whatever, the laser enables aimed fire without the firearm being brought to shoulder.

I'd actually considered a green laser, as they are supposedly way better in daytime, but we mostly take this gun when closing the barns and coops and so on, at night, and at the range, in mid-day, it really is easy to see the red laser dot, even on grass out to 50 yards. The green ones are $360 vs. $160 for the red ones, so I stuck with red.

[madman4570]

Guess I will sum it up for me like this!
Honestly,I think its very hard to beat a good .357 handgun like a 4" or 6" GP100 Ruger
Chances are you will have it on you more often when needed and also can be safe in a illuminated touch pad pistol safe next to your bed.(having kids around etc)
As for long guns----
Pick a gun that is inbred in your being.I mean,if you have used pumps for example for all your life and are much more familar with that style(pick that)if its lever pick that, and so on.(have several replacements of that specific type/caliber in case somthing happens to your chosen one)
Have plenty of supplies for the ammo on hand in case ammo becomes scarce.(same ammo for handgun/long gun is great)

Familar gun/guns + lots of ammo for them = best chance for the best outcome as possible!

.357----------yep that will do! (but I will take (2)4" and (1)6" GP100 Rugers
With a proven aprox 9 out 10 one shot stops(works for me) also that 6" is darn deadly at even 100yds.(even the 4" with some pratice)

[pokey]

this is a nice what if exercise. a lot of good ideas, kind of diverse as well.
now you all very well know, the most effective weapon you have is NOT in your hands,

it's between your ears.

if that .357 carbine makes you happy, go for it.

[Streetstar]

this is a nice what if exercise. a lot of good ideas, kind of diverse as well.
now you all very well know, the most effective weapon you have is NOT in your hands,

it's between your ears.

if that .357 carbine makes you happy, go for it.

TTT just to keep the thread goin! 3 pages so far !!! (of course i could probably get this locked pretty quick if i said an AK74 was superior to a Winny '92 --- ) JK

[BAGTIC]

" By "bad times" I mean serious civil insurrection, looting, protecting your home from roving bands of troublemakers...etc."

That was my Dads choice back in 1957 when he felt the same thing was on the horizon.
2x22

1957??? I MUST HAVE SLEPT THROUGH THAT ONE. Probably just a coincidence as I also missed all the other predicted 'bad times, at least as far back as 1942.

[COSteve]

" By "bad times" I mean serious civil insurrection, looting, protecting your home from roving bands of troublemakers...etc."

That was my Dads choice back in 1957 when he felt the same thing was on the horizon.
2x22

1957??? I MUST HAVE SLEPT THROUGH THAT ONE. Probably just a coincidence as I also missed all the other predicted 'bad times, at least as far back as 1942.

Yep, that was when everyone was talking about building a bomb shelter in the backyard 'cause the Ruskies were going to start WWIII any day. Remember those 'Duck and Cover' drills in school?

[stretch]

I think a .357 levergun is a great choice for self/home
defense rifle.

Ammunition is widely available and easily reloadable.
Ditto for components.

In the hands of someone who knows what they're about,
it's a deadly weapon. Let's put it this way -
would you rather face an inept, recalcitrant piece of
garbage with an AK-47 on full auto, or, say, the late
Colonel Cooper with a 357 Rossi as your opponent?

If you know what you're doing, have the correct mindset, and
can keep your cool, it's a good choice methinks.

I can't SEE more than about 100 yards from my house because
of the woods and terrain, so an iron-sighted levergun in whatever
caliber is handy that day would work for me!

-Stretch

[Booger Bill]

I would like a completely dependable pump action hammer .357 rifle. Yes, I know about the timberwolf and that replica made by is it uberti? However I also have read unencourageing things about the reliability of them and for the sky high cost, I would expect better. I cut my teeth on pump action shotguns and .22 rifles in 1890, 62As and a 61 winchesters. I also have a 760 remington 30-06 pump of dads that is nice. That copy of the colt lighting sure looks nice. Wish they would iron it out.

[Arminius]

The last three years reinforced a lesson for me that I learned long ago.

It makes no difference how "common" your calibers are or aren't. In bad times it's what you have. It's not what you can get, because by definition during bad times you can't get it.

People talk about having commonality with their local cops or the military as if that will help them. But them boys are also having a hard time getting what they need too!

If you don't have it, it's not there.


Cat

Yep - 100 % correct!

And 9 mm Parabellum and .357 Mag are a lot cheaper and easier and smaller to store / transport than the mighty .44.

I, like you, did not talk about "getting" ammo "then", I talk about BUY NOW AND STORE SAFE!

Therefore the emphasis on .22 lr, 9 mm x 19 and .357.

Hermann

[ride57]

Hi

I found this thread as I was looking for opinions on a 357 lever action, and Ferfal came to mind. He started a blog when Argentina's economy tanked a few years back. His blog http://ferfal.blogspot.com/

he gives a first person look at what happens when a countries economy gets in a bad times situation. IIRC (I have not read it in a while) the best defense is a handgun. He said that the police are still out. And running around with long arms is frowned upon.

OK, I just went there to get the url. He has added lots of new articles. Goes into what works and what doesn't not only for firearms, but for food, work, barter, water, ammo, and life in general.

( I am thinking about trading a Gunsite 94 30/30 w/ black T for a 357rifle and pistol) If I keep this rifle (its been at the back of the safe) then I have to get ammo, reloading dies/etc. I have 357 dies already. Or I might decide to just sell. or keep)

[2X22]

Welcome, ride57!

Keep us updated as to the decision you make. Inquiring minds want to know...

2x22