OT 1911

[RustyJr]

Does anyone knw if there is a maker of a 1911 that chambers them for 40S&W? Ive done some research on them and everyone seems to make them in either 9mm or 45acp.

Thanks,
RustyJr

[TedH]

STI International does.

http://www.stiguns.com/guns/Shadow/Shadow.php

[JohnB]

Colt, Springfield Armory, STI, are the first companies that come to mind...

[kimwcook]

There's quite a few actually. Just start looking.

[Streetstar]

Why mess with a .40 when you can have a 10 mm, which is basically a .40 Magnum to put it in simple terms ? (JK, buy and shoot anything you want bro, i have always lusted after a Colt Delta 10 but have just not had the scratch available when i have seen them up for sale)

[Kansas Ed]

While I love my Delta, the 10mm requires a 22lb recoil spring. That's almost double the spring tension of the 40. I can see why the FBI ditched them, try getting one cleared when you are weak in one arm/hand....it's pretty impossible to do within a decent amount of time. So IMO the 40 is a much better combat arm over the 10mm if you are wanting a 40cal 1911.

Ed

[Blaine]

My opinion, since I don't own a .40, but The 1911 .45acp is about as good as it gets, especially when shooting the 230 hardball. I have a chart that showed the Buffalo Bore 230 grain really kicking butt penetration-wise:

[horsesoldier03]

???? A Buffalo Bore FMJ and it expands to .72 ???? Still asking myself how it can be, at first I thought maybe a lead bullet with a low BH rate that had a gas check, but this says FMJ. What did they shoot these into ARMORED STEEL?

[RustyJr]

The reason I was specific as to the 40S&W caliber is because alot of law enforcement agencies are now switching or have already switched to 40S&W. I am currently pursuing a career in law enforcement. I still have a year left of college plus the academy however when the time comes if the department I choose will allow me whether off duty or on duty I would prefer to carry a 1911. I currently have one in 45acp and while I'd prefer a 45 if they force me to go with the 40 I would like t at least be able to have it on a 1911 platform if permitted.

Thanks,
RustyJr

[madman4570]

???? A Buffalo Bore FMJ and it expands to .72 ???? Still asking myself how it can be, at first I thought maybe a lead bullet with a low BH rate that had a gas check, but this says FMJ. What did they shoot these into ARMORED STEEL?

Think the 230gr BB stuff they just had it wrong(had them reversed)
They are shooting into wet newspaper!

Myself,
I would no way in heck give up a .45ACP for a .40S&W

[Blaine]

???? A Buffalo Bore FMJ and it expands to .72 ???? Still asking myself how it can be, at first I thought maybe a lead bullet with a low BH rate that had a gas check, but this says FMJ. What did they shoot these into ARMORED STEEL?

From what I've seen, the 230fmj will shed its jacket almost every time in something hard and the lead keeps going and expands...The shredded jacket goes on a couple inches, maybe, but the razor sharp shards really cut up stuff. I really don't know where the FMJ got such a bad rep.....

[Grizz]

It's the last one, the FLAT POINT, that has the extra penetration. It shows no expansion. I think it could be a truncated cone copper jacketed bullet. A bullet of that description in 9mm penetrates water almost as far as .45 roundball. It's that flat meplat thingy again.

Grizz

[Ysabel Kid]

Don't forget Para Ordnance. They have a double-stack .40 S&W 1911-type pistol that is just SWEET!

[firefuzz]

Why mess with a .40 when you can have a 10 mm, which is basically a .40 Magnum to put it in simple terms ? (JK, buy and shoot anything you want bro, i have always lusted after a Colt Delta 10 but have just not had the scratch available when i have seen them up for sale)

I had one of the original 10mm Colt Delta Elite's when they first came out and the only ammo you could buy was the original 10mm Norma. WAY TOO HOT!!! Cracked the frame in about 350 rounds. Colt sent me a new gun, which I promptly sold, along with the rest of the ammo and a free warning. The way 10mm is loaded today you might as well be shooting a .40 S&W.

Rob

[kimwcook]

???? A Buffalo Bore FMJ and it expands to .72 ???? Still asking myself how it can be, at first I thought maybe a lead bullet with a low BH rate that had a gas check, but this says FMJ. What did they shoot these into ARMORED STEEL?

From what I've seen, the 230fmj will shed its jacket almost every time in something hard and the lead keeps going and expands...The shredded jacket goes on a couple inches, maybe, but the razor sharp shards really cut up stuff. I really don't know where the FMJ got such a bad rep.....

I've been to so many autopsy's I lost count and almost each and everyone that used a FMJ it either went through and through or if it did stop in the body it didn't expand at all. Event bullets that went through outer walls of a home, unless they hit a pipe or something very hard, it kept it's shape.

[Grizz]

Law Dog

Based on those autopsies what bullets are best for self-defense? Or, what do you carry?

Grizz

[Doc Hudson]

I would no way in heck give up a .45ACP for a .40S&W

i guess that means you'd keep looking for a job rather than take what is offered.

Cops don't have a lot of choice about caliber in many, if not most, departments. you use the department approved caliber or you don't work for the department. I don't think young Ruusty is planning to dump his .45, he's just trying to cover all his bases.

And about those ammo tests.

34" of penetration and ZERO expansion? No way in hell I'd carry that stuff for defensive use!! With my luck I'd shoot some would-be mugger and get not only him, but some grey-haired granny feeding her cat across the street.

Through and through penetration can be admirable in a hunting situation, but I'd very much prefer bullets to stop in the people I shoot. If somebody is too big for 12-14 inches of penetration to reach vital organs, it ain't a man! it is a bear and you should be using a .45-70 anyway!!

[Blaine]

Doc, you're Azzuming a single use for the 1911..... I guess I was thinking woods/non-urban carry. I rarely, if ever, carry the 1911 for social work. Actually, I end up carrying a 317 AirLite most of the time because it's about 13oz loaded with 8 Stingers.....

[Doc Hudson]

you are right Blaine.

i don't consider the M-1911 to be a good outdoorsman's pistol. It is IMO a Social Weapon or a target weapon, nothing else.

I carried a Colt Officers' ACP in .45 ACP for a number of years, but these days a .357 magnum is much more likely to be on belt or in pocket or sporran.

[Grizz]

Yeah Doc

34" of penetration and ZERO expansion? No way in hell I'd carry that stuff for defensive use!!

But what a great field cartridge. Good deer getter. Good wolf stopper. Good bear defense if it's what ya got, and way better than HPs for stopping toothy critters. Bet it kills 'gators just fine too, and hogs.

I agree with you it's a terrible choice for the social work, but it sounds awesome for field carry like Blaine says.

It'll be my Alaska deer load.

Grizz

[Grizz]

Doc,

45 ACP isn't a good field gun? Its performance is a whisker away from Colt 45, it has higher capacity, and it loads 6 times faster. What's not to like?

[Rexster]

I paid close attention when the .40 S&W was being developed. One very important goal was to be ballistically very close to the 185-grain .45 ACP load, to allow something much like .45 ACP to be chambered in double-stack pistols with short enough chambers to allow folks with normal-sized hands to handle them. This goal was, I believe, achieved well enough. My take on .40 1911s: Load 185-grain .45 ACP ammo in your .45 ACP 1911, and there you are.

I use .40 in my primary duty pistols, by policy; I must buy my own firearms, and the primary duty pistols must be specified DA models from S&W, SIG, Glock, and Springfield armory, Inc. If I choose, I may qual with autoloaders and sixguns chambered for .380 to .45, and use them for back-up on the clock, and for carry on my own time. For simplicity, I tend to carry the same P229s all the time. If I decide to start toting a 1911 again, I will use my Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special, which has never malfunctioned.

I see no reason for a .40 1911, unless it will share magazines with my SIG P229 pistols, and short of some SERIOUS one-off custom work, that won't be a possibility. If the pistols won't be sharing magazines, I don't see the point of them sharing cartridges.

Having said all of that, if I wanted a .40 1911, I would look seriously at the offering from Les Baer Custom, because my TRS has been flawless.

[Pete44ru]

[ a maker of a 1911 that chambers them for 40S&W?]

Kimber, Para-Ordnance, Springfield Armory, and STI are a few that either currently or have recently made 1911's in .40 S&W.

.

[Rusty]

Jr. and I were discussing the .40 and the possibilities of obtaining one on the 1911 platform in order to give it more accuracy, at least that's what I had in mind at the time. I've heard some say that the .40 is not inherently accurate but personally I'm thinking that it's not a function of the caliber as much as it is the weapon it is carried in.
I look at a Glock as being the S&W M10 of this generation. While not terribly accurate they are the definition of dependable, at least that has been my experience.
I also have no experience with the Sig line up so they might also fill the bill and be more accurate than the Glocks at a fraction of something on the 1911 platform.
Maybe I just need to get my own Glock 23 and put a couple of thousand rounds through it, my opinion might change then.

[Griff]

Jr.,

My take on this is: Most departments that have prohibitions on the 1911 platform are not against the .45ACP, but rather, it's "Condition 1" carry. "Locked & cocked" is a scary concept to City or County Attorneys.

Having worked in two VERY different jurisdictions, I've seen how these attitudes are highly individualistic. My advice is to wait until you are selected by a department/academy and follow their guidelines for duty weapon selection.

FWIW, I carried a .45ACP Combat Commander for most of my plain clothes jobs and ALL of my UC assignments in CA. And in TX I carried it in both PC & uniform work. It is still my preferred weapon and in a Milt Sparks "Summertime Special", plenty concealed if I could just lose this spare tire!!!

EDIT: What rexster said.

[piller]

Based on my experience with my S&W 99 compact in .40 S&W, it is not at all an inaccurate cartridge. I cannot say in any other platform, but in my pistol it shoots very accurately.

[tman]

my glock 27 is as accurate as any 1911 i've shot. think this is an urban ledgend perpetuated by 1911 custom smith's who came to realize an out of the box glock .40 was a better piece. you have to throw away the barrel, install custom sights, port and ramp the frame to get slightly more accuaracy and less dependability with hollow point ammo with the 1911 to get it to run with an unmodifyed glock. not to mention the purhase of expensive magazines. some milspec .45's meet this standard, but not all. love the colt, but the glock got it beat.

[lthardman]

I have a Para Ordinance (now Para USA) P16-40, which as the name implies is .40 S&W. I purchased it used, and like it a lot. Very reliable accurate. I would highly recommend it.

[Charles]

Like others I can see no reason to buy a 40 when you have have a 45. When it comes to pistol bullets bigger is always better.

Here is my brush gun and loads. Good old 452423/4.7/BE for an honest 840 fps. No doubt it will produce a through and through wound, but it will hurt a whole bunch on the way through. Anybody who took a pair of these center mass and still keep on coming is way to much for me to handle, although I would move to the head and empty the mag. If he still coming I will run or hobble away as fast as I can, but my goose would probably be cooked.

[Charles]

Errrr...ahhh...Doc I respectfully and most humbly beg to differ with you about the 1911 not being an outdoorsman pistol. I would be the first to say it is not ideal for that purpose, but it will do the job.

The majority of my brush poping and desert wanderings, have been with a full sized 1911 of some sort in 45 ACP. I have killed deer, javalina, coyotes, rabbits, snakes, porcupine, a mountain lion, several bobcats and a beaver or two with such a pistol. It also got me out of a rough and tumble Mexican cantina/gambling den back in the day. It never failed me.

I started with a Remington-Rand 1911A1 in 1961 and for years it was the only centerfire pistol I owned and of necessity it had to do what needed to be done. I learned that it was "ready, ay ready!" to do the job and meet the challenge. I am not alone, as I have seen butts of "45 automatics" sticking out of holsters and waist band of outdoorsmen all over the Southwest.

The load I have used for all purposes these 49 years is the one in the post above. It will "get er done".

I would not tell a young man to choose one for such a use, but if he is willing to learn the ins and outs of the pistol, he will need no others. BTW..I read a week or so ago about a man and his wife who took a charge from a poed Grizz somewhere up north and he killed it with his 45 Auto.

[RSY]

The majority of my brush poping and desert wanderings, have been with a full sized 1911 of some sort in 45 ACP.

So, that was you I saw wandering around the countryside wearing a mitre the last time I drove through the brush country!

[Blaine]

The majority of my brush poping and desert wanderings, have been with a full sized 1911 of some sort in 45 ACP.

So, that was you I saw wandering around the countryside wearing a mitre the last time I drove through the brush country!

Isn't a Mitre the metric equiv. of a 10 Gallon Hat?

[Charles]

Make that brush popper and brushing popping. There now..feel better?