California Bound

[Bullard4075]

My 25 year old son ,Alaska born and Montana raised, is being transferred (federal job) to Ontario,Ca.
A culture shock to be sure.
He is (like me) and avid hunter and shooter.
What things (gun related) should he be concerned about , things that may be vastly different from
what he is use to in Montana .
Does Ca have Concealed Weapons Permits ? Is the state a shall issue state like Montana.
I have advised him to leave all his guns here until he is there for awhile and finds out what he can
and what he can't have there.
I know some of this might be avaliable on the Internet (and I will check) but I trust more what you
gentleman might advise.
Please keep your comments positive , he is going and we are thankful that he has such a good job.

[Old Savage]

Well, we all have guns down here but concealed carry permits vary by area.

[Poohgyrr]

Two places to start are The California Rifle and Pistol Association, and www dot calguns dot net... The calguns website is good sized, with forums giving (unofficial) updates on legal info, and a section for buying & selling guns.

CCW's are issued or denied by the Sheriff or Police Chief where your residence is. Of those who do issue, many have a policy of limiting you to three specific handguns (by serial number).

I do not know the specific law regarding moving here and bringing magazines that hold more than ten rounds. In general, any post ban mag is illegal here.

I believe I've read either San Bernardino county or Riverside County might be one of the better local areas for issuing CCW's - one is better and the other is bad.

I do not know details on bringing guns into state, except AR's and any select fire or suppressors are not allowed.

Shotguns are special, look for specific laws about semi auto vs pumps. I think semiautos have problems with pistol grips....

M1A's are still legal and Springfield sells a lot here. But check the law on the mags for these. Garands are legal and eight round clips are fine.

And depending on what his federal job is, maybe he has some exemptions or restrictions.

If he has any Curio or Relics, check into those - they are special and may be fine. There is a way for parents to gift handguns not on the "safety list" - I do not know about bringing them here when you move to CA - but I believe there may be a way to do that as well.

And, depending on the cop and what his Department tells him to do, some think a loaded magazine means the gun is loaded. Big city Departments are often the worst. So if you have a 1911 in the trunk, and a loaded magazine in the passenger compartment, that might be illegal carry..... In general, ammo completely separate from the gun, and the two of them in different parts of the car like trunk and back seat. Oh yeah, handguns are supposed to be transported unloaded and in a locked container.

Two more laws to look into are 12025 and 12027 of the Penal Code. For hunting, the Fish and Game Code.

And of course, this info is for places to start checking into, and guns to think about. I know my stuff is legal, but.......

Otherwise, the state has some beautiful places and some friendly people.

Anyone who wants to correct me please do....

[El Chivo]

Since he'll be outside of LA County, a concealed carry permit is a possibility. No one in LA County can get them except security guards and Robert Blake.

He should read up carefully, especially if he's got handguns. For example, if you transport your (locked) handguns, you can't stop anyplace, you have to go directly to the range (or hunting area) and back. Handguns must be carried locked in a vehicle's trunk and no place else. If your vehicle doesn't have a trunk, you could technically be in violation. Most people with SUVs use some sort of locked case, but I don't know if that fulfills the letter of the law. Long guns can be carried anywhere in the car but must be unloaded.

Also, all handguns have to be declared within 10 days or so of entering the state. I don't know to who.

Any ammo attached to a gun in any way makes it a loaded gun as far as the state is concerned (as far as Fish and Game is concerned, a gun is only loaded when there's one in the chamber).

try this link:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/calaw ... y=&hits=20

confused yet?

[deadhawg]

California has a list of firearms that are "allowed" and those that are not.
Here's a link to the CA firarms law.
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/
No magazines over 10 rounds can be brought into the state, among other restrictions.
Certain "assault weapons" are illegal, but the California definition of "assault weapon" makes no sense and has little to do with the actual functioning of the gun in question.
For example, a Mini-14 or Mini-30 with a 10 round detachable magazine is legal, but an ak-47 with a 10 round detachable magazine is not.
CCW permits are issued by the sheriff of each county. Some counties issue a lot of permits, some virtually none.
California is a beautiful state, with mountains, deserts and beaches, lots of great hunting and fishing. But it also has some of the stupidest laws in the country, and politicians to match.

[deadhawg]

Since he'll be outside of LA County, a concealed carry permit is a possibility. No one in LA County can get them except security guards and Robert Blake.

He should read up carefully, especially if he's got handguns. For example, if you transport your (locked) handguns, you can't stop anyplace, you have to go directly to the range (or hunting area) and back.


Handguns must be carried locked in a vehicle's trunk and no place else. If your vehicle doesn't have a trunk, you could technically be in violation. Most people with SUVs use some sort of locked case, but I don't know if that fulfills the letter of the law. Long guns can be carried anywhere in the car but must be unloaded.

I believe the above information is incorrect. From the CA Attorney Generals site:

Traveling with Firearms in California
HANDGUNS
California Penal Code section 12025 does not prevent a citizen of the United States over 18 years of age who is not lawfully prohibited from firearm possession, and who resides or is temporarily in California, from transporting by motor vehicle any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person provided the firearm is unloaded and stored in a locked container.

The term "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. This includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but does not include the utility or glove compartment. For more information, refer to California Penal Code Section 12026.1.

Also, all handguns have to be declared within 10 days or so of entering the state. I don't know to who.

From the Attorney General's site:
Firearms Information for New California Residents
Handguns
Any person who moves into California and who brings any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person is considered to be a "Personal Handgun Importer" and is required to do one of the following within 60 days:

•Complete and submit a NEW RESIDENT HANDGUN OWNERSHIP REPORT form along with $19.00 to the Department of Justice. A separate report form and $19.00 fee is required for each handgun reported. NEW RESIDENT HANDGUN OWNERSHIP REPORT forms can be obtained from California Department of Motor Vehicles' offices, licensed firearms dealers, local police and sheriff's departments, the California Department of Justice Bureau of Firearms at (916) 263-4887, and from the Online Forms Page at this site.
•Sell or transfer the handgun(s) to a California licensed firearms dealer or to another individual using a California licensed firearms dealer to conduct the transaction.
or

•Sell or transfer the handgun(s) to a California police or sheriff's department. Persons choosing this option should contact the law enforcement agency for instructions prior to transporting the handgun(s) to the agency.

SHOTGUNS AND RIFLES
California law does not require persons moving into California report rifles or shotguns. One important thing to be aware of though is that certain rifles and shotguns may be defined as assault weapons in California and are prohibited from entering this state under most normal circumstances. Additionally, machine guns and ammunition feeding devices with the capacity to accept greater that 10 rounds may not be transported into California.

Any ammo attached to a gun in any way makes it a loaded gun as far as the state is concerned (as far as Fish and Game is concerned, a gun is only loaded when there's one in the chamber).

try this link:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/calaw ... y=&hits=20

confused yet?

[Modoc ED]

The best advice I can give is the advice you gave your son.

"Leave his guns at home until he moves to Ontario and gets the "lay of the land" so-to-speak.

If he does want to bring a gun despite your advice, he should bring a long gun and he should transport it in a hard, "locked case". Believe it or not, a "locked case" can be a cloth zippered case as long as it can be padlocked with a lock locking the zipper tab to a "D" ring. HOWEVER, he should use a lockable "hard case".

I'd say he ought to get a place and get set-up in it before bringing any guns or at best bring a shotgun in a locked case for home defense.

CA is not a "shall issue" state.

[MrMurphy]

Run away! Run away!

Now that I have the automatic answer out of my system......

Pretty much what they said. I was born/raised in L.A and after 22 years escaped to Texas.

Tell him to leave his guns in the United States. If he's bringing any guns to CA, I'd recommend a .30-30, 12ga pump and a .357 or some auto that's not suffering from a magazine ban (1911 for example).

Once he returns to the United States he can have his "legal" guns again back from you.

CA is very definitely not shall issue. Friend of mine got his permit in San Bernadino and the hoops he had to jump through were far in excess of what TX demands, but at least he got his. Living in L.A county, a couple miles from "freedom" i could not get a license.

[J Miller]

Bullard4075,

Please give your son my sincerest condolences for this move. Hopefully he doesn't find himself in a predicament similar to mine.
I moved from Arizona to IL due to family. I hate it here. Been unable to get the funds together to return to AZ.
If carriers or jobs weren't so hard to come buy I'd suggest he turn down the transfer and look elsewhere for employment if he had to.

Joe

[jnyork]

Having a good job (any job) in this climate is a good thing and not to be trifled with, just unfortunate in this case that the job is in Kali. Perhaps he will be able to swing a transfer back out after a while. It will be culture shock for sure. He should leave his guns in Free Montana for a while.

[m.wun]

One peice of good news is there is a Bass pro shops 10 min. from there.If he has hunting,
pistols or older guns that are "normal" there will be no worry.Just keep firearms seperate
from ammo while driving...

[JReed]

There is lots of hunting in SoCal you just have to do the home work lots of public land in San Bernadino, Riverside, and San Diego county's. As far as the guns The advice given by the others hits on any thing I could come up with.

[jfwlb]

I usually just lurk on this site and not post much, but I wanted to second the advice give by Poohgyrr:
calguns.net

Go there, enter the forums and start reading. In regards to prohibited weapons in Ca., once you enter the forums, at the top of each section are links to interactive flowcharts that walk you through figuring out if the particular firearm you want to bring into Ca. is legal or not. Also at the top are links to the "named" list of assault rifles that are outlawed by make and/or model and also the "approved" handgun roster that specifies which handguns can be bought and sold in California(unless you are leo).

CGN (CalGuns.Net) is the best and most thorough source I know in regards to firearms ownership questions for Californians.

If your son is an avid 2a supporter, he should also check out the calguns foundation. It is a group of cgn members and at least two law firms that formed a grass roots group to fight for our rights in California. They, and CGN have been instrumental in many court cases where the person was charged with weapons violations and in many cases had the charges dropped.

If he doesn't find the answers he is looking for, he can post his question and it will be answered. If he explains that he is moving there soon, the forum members will be extremely helpful with any questions he may have. They are a great bunch of people there, reminds me of the folks here.

John

[new pig hunter]

lots of good gun stuff here in SoCal ..... and lots of restrictions. Definitely not the relative paradise of Montana.

getting a CCW will be a factor of what county he resides in. LA County: no way. Riverside & San Bernardino, possibly/probably/maybe/who knows. Like all things in Kali, ya just don't know till ya try.

Firearm Transport: guns in the trunk, ammo in the passenger compartment (or vice versa). Definitely not loaded. The "spirit of the law" is total separation of firearm and ammo while in transport mode.

A biggie: assault weapon. Iff'n he's got an AR-15 or equivalent, leave it home. They are very illegal in Kali and mere possession is a most-serious felony. Simply crossing the state line with it in one's possession makes you a felon, no questions asked, simple as that. We of course have plenty of lawyers, but it will be a very expensive mistake to make.

There's other stuff .... so a low profile is recommended while getting the lay of the land.

Cheers,

Carl

p.s. I'll meet him in Chino at this restaurant for family-style lunch and dinner, my most-favorite place .... right-next-door to Ontario !!!
http://www.centrobasco.net

[Yodar]

Wait until you try to register your car! California is especially tough on cars not originally made for the California market. Bring lots of money and expect the usual DMV run-around. Are you sure you want to move there? It used to be a great place to live but it has been turned into a zoo.

[Paladin]

Run away! Run away!

Now that I have the automatic answer out of my system......

Pretty much what they said. I was born/raised in L.A and after 22 years escaped to Texas.

Tell him to leave his guns in the United States. If he's bringing any guns to CA, I'd recommend a .30-30, 12ga pump and a .357 or some auto that's not suffering from a magazine ban (1911 for example).

Once he returns to the United States he can have his "legal" guns again back from you.

CA is very definitely not shall issue. Friend of mine got his permit in San Bernadino and the hoops he had to jump through were far in excess of what TX demands, but at least he got his. Living in L.A county, a couple miles from "freedom" i could not get a license.

+1, I just left Ft Irwin and stayed in Ontario a lot (CSMs House), This is good info.

[Bis]

My son just moved back to the Ontario area with my shot gun and a one of my pistols. He is telling me that he has to turn the guns into gun shop so they can run a check on him and the gun and he has to wait the ten day cooling off period and give them about $40.00 per gun. He is going to be in trouble when I croppy off and he has to pay $40 per gun for all the guns I have.

[Joel]

When I moved back to Cal from the Billings area, I had to sell a few things that would not fly here; HK USP TActical 13 rnd mag and threaded barrel, and a few black guns that were on the no-no list here.

There are counties here much easier to get ccw than others

[madman4570]

Guns??????????
You kidding me, 25 years old------------He will be at the beach with the girls!
That is very positive indeed. He is a lucky man! He will love it!
Best Beach-------------Newport,then they are all really awesome in either direction!
Wish I could go tomorrow!

[Bullard4075]

Update from the (my) first post. Just got back from driving down to Ontario - Rancho Cucamonga
actually - California with my son. It was 23 hours Billings to Ca pulling a U-haul trailer through the wind
snow/slush/rain until just south of Salt Lake City. Spent 4 days there. Not really what I expected, the
area is much nicer and cleaner than cities it's size I've been in. We spent an afternoon in the Bass Pro Shop
store talking to employees about hunting in the area. While not Montana it doesn't seem to be the hunting
desert some have described. He has a good attitude and will do well, wherever he is.
I asked for positive information and comments and some couldn't resist a dig or two. If it made you feel
better then I was happy to take your gloom if even for a minute.
Once he is more sure of his ground, his gun (bolt 30-06) will join him. It seems to be the most California friendly
of his armory.
We've taken note of your suggestions for internet information and forums and are in full pursuit of knowledge.
Thanks again Gentlemen.

[madman4570]

Not really what I expected, the
area is much nicer and cleaner than cities it's size I've been in. We spent an afternoon in the Bass Pro Shop
store talking to employees about hunting in the area. While not Montana it doesn't seem to be the hunting
desert some have described.

Told ya, California is very nice!
Maybe its me(about the friendliest state I have ever been in)at least in most parts from San Diego to San Francisco(except maybe Long Beach)
My favorite is Santa Anna(people there are beyond friendly)never seen anything like it!

[Griff]

No way is CA a "hunting desert", but it ain't easy. DFG print oodles of reports and stats about each season's hunting.
I left CA 20 years ago, annd as I recall deer hunters netted a 7% success rate. But, there are areas that saw 80%! The downside is that tags are drawn in a lottery. There is one way to up your chances for a good area. They allow "party" hunts of up to 4 people to draw together. Good news is that if anyone of you are selected all 4 get tags. Me & my 3 friends were drawn for one of the X-10 hunts 6 of 10 years. I connected on 3 of those. If fire season cooperates, D-9 is also excellent, I took 2 forkies there.

Take advantage of archeru and muzzleloader seasons for the scouting opportunity they provide. Get a bear tag every year you can fir any area you're drawn for, they're cheap and give you another excuse to be in the area.

Huntin' in CA can be easy or hard, sucess ain't gonna come to the sissies. It can be downright dangerous, I've been sniped at and even threatened at gunpoint during archery season in D-9. If it's vehicle accessible, that's where the problems are. That doesn't mean the hunting's bad... just harder... be prepared to HIKE! I like to think I was successful, 5 deer outta the 10 I hunted there is WAY above average! I like to think that the fact I was still chasin' 17 yo's @ 40 (and catchin' 'em) kept me in shape for those hikes from 7500' 10,000' to START hunting!

Another good way to get drawn is to have an out-of-state hunter in yer "party"!

[Bis]

Rancho Cucamonga must be getting crowded, my son moved there last month. Its hard to call it Rancho Cucamonga, growing up out there it was just Cucamonga and there was nothing but grape vinyards and a great fruit stand on Baseline and Vinyard. They do have a great Bass Pro Shop that I willl get to see in about 2 weeks when we visit our son.

[new pig hunter]

yep, the RC area has been exploding with population for several years now.

still around after all these years is Galleano Winery, tucked into the SE quadrant of the I-15/60 Freeway interchange. Great for wine tasting.

BULLARD,
if your son is looking for a rifle range, I'd recommend Burro Canyon, in the San Gabriel Canyon above Azuza:
http://www.burrocanyon.com

Cheers,

Carl

[Bis]

There is a gun range in Burro Cannon? Not to be picky but it is Azusa nit Azuza. "everything from A to Z in the USA"

[new pig hunter]

oops, I don't usually make spelling errors, except for when I make 'em.

Yep, Burro Canyon is a good place. They shut down SGVGC a couple of years ago, so BC is now the closest place to home. The rifle range is 200 yards, with covered shooting benches. The pistol range has covered benches, and there's a place where you can toss clay pigeons for shotgun practice.

Cheers,

Carl

[Old Savage]

California has opportunities and restrictions like anywhere else. Just had wild pig sausage from a 650 porker that a friend shot with a 416 Rigby from down in that area and I have friends that eat almost nothing but game meat. But, you have to plan what you are doing or pay for private hunts. We all have plenty of guns. I think you could have just driven the rifle down and any shotguns.

[Joel]

Bullard, Living back in Cal after having lived near Billings for almost ten years, I can say things are different, but not bad. If your boy doesn't mind driving up to Nor Cal (7 hours from where he is) I can help him get a deer or two. We don't have anything like Block Management here, but I have a few places I go to get my food. Won't be any Montana sized bucks, but they sure taste good. Lots of birds if he likes Doves Quail, Ducks, plenty of pheasant clubs.

I'd be happy to help out a Montanan


FYI I was a member of Laurel Rod and Gun, and the Huntley club, have we met?

[Griff]

A range that's a little closer than Burro Canyon might be West End Gun Club off Sierra Road near Lyttle Creek.

Aerial of range:


Take I-15 No to Sierra Rd, turn L yo 1st dirt Road on R (there'll be a sign and a coupla turnouts before), cross over Lytle Creek, bear left into that canyon, take R fork that follows that creek bed on the R and at the next fork, bear L. The entry gate will be just ahead. If you can get there during the week, membership fee is WELL worth it! If I EVER find myself living in CA again, I'll rejion!

[JReed]

Tell him to get a Cleveland National Forest map. It covers most of SoCal from Orange County south and from the ocean to AZ. It shows not only the national forest but also all the BLM land it is a great resource for hunting in SoCal.