Sometimes the Gummytip ammo just ain't right...

[AJMD429]

Well, it was time to send the token centerfire round downrange for the weekend, so even though I spent all weekend doing paperwork for the various bureaucrats who run/ruin my life, I could at least have the illusion I'd spent some of it shooting.

I took the Guide Gun, and an odd round of Leverevolution that I found in the .45-70 bin, and headed back to the sand-pit range we have. I had stuffed the round in the magazine, and the loading gate snapped shut, but when I went to work the action, it wouldn't open.

So, after numerous attempts to jiggle it loose, I found a target-clamp to use as a screw-driver and take out the lever. When I did, the cartridge suddenly sprang back, and the primer BARELY missed the ejector...



After muttering under my breath, I reassembled the gun, re-inserted the round through the loading gate, and once again worked the lever - or, rather, tried to work it.

Stuck again...

OK, I'd never really liked those short-brass gummy-tips anyway, so this was WAR; I once again disassembled the gun, careful to keep a finger in place to block the rearward 'slam' lest this time it hit the primer, and after reassembling the gun, slip the round in the chamber directly. OK, now that old water heater tank is gonna get it!

BLAM...!

I walk the 50 yards to the heater tank, glad to be rid of my last Leverevolution round, and can't find any hole. The tank has been shot at for years, though, so sometimes the only sign of a 'hit' is on the rear side you see fresh non-rusted metal. I walk around to the back of the tank and look for fresh metal. . . nope. Hmmm.

There IS a track in the snow at the base of the heater tank, about a foot to the right. THAT does it! I really HATE these stupid gummy-tips; can't even hit a water heater at 50 yards. WHAT JUNK...!

I left the round chambered until I got back to the house, the upon un-chambering, see this split...



The case is even BULGED... If that stupid gummy-tip hurt my Guide Gun, I'm gonna really be ticked off!

Some of you probably already know the problem, but for those who don't yet see what happened...

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

I inspect the primer area, and it is pretty flat, so I wonder if the pressure was too much, or what?



What do you guys think...

• a. Obviously those Hornady gummy-tips stink.
  b. Something is wrong with my Guide Gun.
  c. It's a good thing the manufacturers make things as idiot-proof as they can.

P.S. - 44MagHunter - GET OFF THE INTERNET AND DO YOUR HOMEWORK....!

(Actually, this entire event was intentional, and 'staged' as part of an exhaustive and sophisticated effort to teach my son safety by illustrating by example various and sundry things NOT to do. Really. Just like the time with the chain saw. Honest... )

[vancelw]

I think that's what happens when you shoot a .444 Marlin round in a .45-70??? Do I win???

[JReed]

Yep that looks right for a .444Marlin in a 45-70 chamber.

[Terry Murbach]

You shot a 444marlin in a 45/70 levergun....and are wondering at the results ??

[CEMENTHEAD]

All figured out I see.....LOL. Glad you didn't get hurt................

[vancelw]

Wait

I answered wrong.

Your rifle is defective. As a pal, I will take it off your hands for a small disposal fee.

After all, what are fiends for?

[AJMD429]

You shot a 444marlin in a 45/70 levergun....and are wondering at the results ??

No, Terry, that's the strange thing about it - I'm sure that was a .444 Marlin Guide Gun. The problem with the danged thing is that not only is marked wrong on the barrel - it says ".45-70" instead of ".444 Marlin", but here's the really bad part - it doesn't even have a .444 Marlin chamber.

I can't imagine how stupid a person would have to be to make a gun like that, and chamber it wrong, as well as label it wrong. There's some really dumb people in this world.

Think I should send it back to Marlin...?

[Terry Murbach]

You shot a 444marlin in a 45/70 levergun....and are wondering at the results ??

No, Terry, that's the strange thing about it - I'm sure that was a .444 Marlin Guide Gun. The problem with the danged thing is that not only is marked wrong on the barrel - it says ".45-70" instead of ".444 Marlin", but here's the really bad part - it doesn't even have a .444 Marlin chamber.

I can't imagine how stupid a person would have to be to make a gun like that, and chamber it wrong, as well as label it wrong. There's some really dumb people in this world.

Think I should send it back to Marlin...?

HOLY MOLY !!! SO THOSE LINES ON THAT SPLIT CASE ARE REALLY RIFLING MARKS IN THE BARREL ?? !!!
I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANTHING LIKE THAT BEFORE.
BEFORE WE ALL GO OFF THE DEEP END ON MARLIN, LET'S REMEMBER THEY ARE FALLIBLE PEOPLE JUST LIKE ALL THE REST OF US. I WOULD GET THE SERIAL NUMBER AND CALL THEM. TELL THEM STRAIGHT UP WHAT THE PROBLEM IS AND ASK THEM TO SEND A CALL TAG TO PICK IT UP ON THEIR DIME FOR RETURN TO THE FACTORY. I ASSUME YOU WANTED A 45-70 GUN ORIGINALLY SINCE THAT IS WHAT IS ON THE BARREL. YOU MIGHT ASK THEM TO REPLACE IT WITH A NEW RIFLE AND SEE WHAT THEY SAY. DO NOT CALL 'EM WITH A CHIP ON YOUR SHOULDER AND BE SWEET AS SUGAR. KEEP US ALL POSTED ON HOW THIS ALL SHAKES OUT, PLEASE.

[awp101]

Wait

I answered wrong.

Your rifle is defective. As a pal, I will take it off your hands for a small disposal fee.

After all, what are fiends for?

Fiends? Freudian slip? Or just a sense of humor like mine?

[AJMD429]

Terry - I'm just being silly. It was actually a .45-70 Guide Gun, as purchased, and marked so on the barrel, as well as chambered as such.

...I just wanted it to be a .444 Marlin, I guess...

Anyhow, I screwed up and touched off a .444 Marlin in it, and it went 'bang' - but didn't seem to hurt a thing other than the brass. The .444 case just ruptured in the .45-70 chamber, as expected.

In other words, I was the dummy - not the guy who built the rifle...

[vancelw]

Wait

I answered wrong.

Your rifle is defective. As a pal, I will take it off your hands for a small disposal fee.

After all, what are fiends for?

Fiends? Freudian slip? Or just a sense of humor like mine?

If "friends" on this forum are always enabling you by selling you more guns and talking you into buying more guns...then "fiends" must have a role, too.

Terry - I'm just being silly. It was actually a .45-70 Guide Gun, as purchased, and marked so on the barrel, as well as chambered as such.

...I just wanted it to be a .444 Marlin, I guess...

Anyhow, I screwed up and touched off a .444 Marlin in it, and it went 'bang' - but didn't seem to hurt a thing other than the brass. The .444 case just ruptured in the .45-70 chamber, as expected.

In other words, I was the dummy - not the guy who built the rifle...

Even so, I wouldn't want you to hurt yourself My offer stands.

One of my favorite rifles is my .45 colt Jap 1892. I also like to hunt with my .44 Mag Ruger SRedhawk. I will never take them both out in the field at the same time cause I'm scared I'll accidentally stick a .44 mag into my .45 Colt rifle. And we all know why the .450 Marlin is belted. Stuff happens.

Thanks for sharing your mishap as a reminder to us all.

[Mac in Mo]

I knew what happened as soon as I saw it. It looks exactly like the 44mag case I fired through my 45 Colt Blackhawk several years ago. As someone mentioned, I had the two calibers out hunting. I keep that case on a shelf at eye level above my loading bench as a reminder. I didn't hit was I was shooting at either. Stay safe. Kevin On edit I guess I shouldn't say it looks exactly like my case. Mine bulged but did not split.

[Hobie]

You shot a 444marlin in a 45/70 levergun....and are wondering at the results ??

No, Terry, that's the strange thing about it - I'm sure that was a .444 Marlin Guide Gun. The problem with the danged thing is that not only is marked wrong on the barrel - it says ".45-70" instead of ".444 Marlin", but here's the really bad part - it doesn't even have a .444 Marlin chamber.

I can't imagine how stupid a person would have to be to make a gun like that, and chamber it wrong, as well as label it wrong. There's some really dumb people in this world.

Think I should send it back to Marlin...?

HOLY MOLY !!! SO THOSE LINES ON THAT SPLIT CASE ARE REALLY RIFLING MARKS IN THE BARREL ?? !!!
I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANTHING LIKE THAT BEFORE.
BEFORE WE ALL GO OFF THE DEEP END ON MARLIN, LET'S REMEMBER THEY ARE FALLIBLE PEOPLE JUST LIKE ALL THE REST OF US. I WOULD GET THE SERIAL NUMBER AND CALL THEM. TELL THEM STRAIGHT UP WHAT THE PROBLEM IS AND ASK THEM TO SEND A CALL TAG TO PICK IT UP ON THEIR DIME FOR RETURN TO THE FACTORY. I ASSUME YOU WANTED A 45-70 GUN ORIGINALLY SINCE THAT IS WHAT IS ON THE BARREL. YOU MIGHT ASK THEM TO REPLACE IT WITH A NEW RIFLE AND SEE WHAT THEY SAY. DO NOT CALL 'EM WITH A CHIP ON YOUR SHOULDER AND BE SWEET AS SUGAR. KEEP US ALL POSTED ON HOW THIS ALL SHAKES OUT, PLEASE.

Terry, you shouldn't play along with these jokers, they don't always get it.

[dkmlever]

Well, it does happen, I shot a 25-06 out of my 30-06 one time, din't hit the target either! No split case just a fire formed new 30-06 case!

[madman4570]

DocAJ,

That is a Bummer!

[Grizz]

I watched someone do that once. One of the someones posts here but fortunately for him I can't quite remember who the trigger man was.

It's easy to do that. It's also a well written essay.

And a very good reminder. I could see something similar happening putting a 9mm into a 40, anyone done that one?

Grizz

[L_Kilkenny]

Lesson learned.......don't own/shoot guns that begin with FOUR! Problem solved.

LK

[Hillbilly]

Doc... dont feel to bad about the mix-up. Now you know why I keep 7, 30-30's, a couple of 45 ACPs, some 38 specials and a few .22s. With bi focals I cant tell some of them apart either..

[awp101]

I could see something similar happening putting a 9mm into a 40, anyone done that one?

Grizz

BTDT! It'll feed but not cycle the slide...

[new pig hunter]

funny, I suppose ..... a guy I know shot .375 Winchester out of his .444 Marlin. Loaded OK into the magazine, action cycled just fine, the bullet zoomed out OK, extraction/ejection OK, but the sound blast was a little softer than expected, as was the recoil.
Took the guy 4 shots to figure out the problem.

And yep, his brass had that exact same long split on the side of the case.

Cheers,

Carl

[Jayhawker]

I have a piece of 444 brass exactly like that. I single fed it into the rifle so I didn't have a clue about what was going to happen. At the shot, I saw the bullet impact about 20 yards to the left and 10 yards down from the target on the 100 yard berm. It still took me a few seconds after ejecting the shell to figure out what I'd done. Kept the brass as a reminder to double check my ammo constantly.

[buckeyeshooter]

[quote="AJMD429"]Well, it was time to send the token centerfire round downrange for the weekend, so even though I spent all weekend doing paperwork for the various bureaucrats who run/ruin my life, I could at least have the illusion I'd spent some of it shooting.

I took the Guide Gun, and an odd round of Leverevolution that I found in the .45-70 bin, and headed back to the sand-pit range we have. I had stuffed the round in the magazine, and the loading gate snapped shut, but when I went to work the action, it wouldn't open.

So, after numerous attempts to jiggle it loose, I found a target-clamp to use as a screw-driver and take out the lever. When I did, the cartridge suddenly sprang back, and the primer BARELY missed the ejector...



After muttering under my breath, I reassembled the gun, re-inserted the round through the loading gate, and once again worked the lever - or, rather, tried to work it.

Stuck again...

OK, I'd never really liked those short-brass gummy-tips anyway, so this was WAR; I once again disassembled the gun, careful to keep a finger in place to block the rearward 'slam' lest this time it hit the primer, and after reassembling the gun, slip the round in the chamber directly. OK, now that old water heater tank is gonna get it!

BLAM...!

I walk the 50 yards to the heater tank, glad to be rid of my last Leverevolution round, and can't find any hole. The tank has been shot at for years, though, so sometimes the only sign of a 'hit' is on the rear side you see fresh non-rusted metal. I walk around to the back of the tank and look for fresh metal. . . nope. Hmmm.

There IS a track in the snow at the base of the heater tank, about a foot to the right. THAT does it! I really HATE these stupid gummy-tips; can't even hit a water heater at 50 yards. WHAT JUNK...!

I left the round chambered until I got back to the house, the upon un-chambering, see this split...



The case is even BULGED... If that stupid gummy-tip hurt my Guide Gun, I'm gonna really be ticked off!

Some of you probably already know the problem, but for those who don't yet see what happened...

I have had no exit wound on deer shot with them in the 308 me, the last 2 years. The gummies have seperated core and jacket and failed (in my book at least) with shots under 100 yards. I shot 8 deer with them under 100 yards and only had 3 exits on smaller does. The 200+ pound bucks were 1 lunged and had to be followed up because of the bullet breakup. One buck was hit on the 'elbow joint' over the chest. The gummie broke up on the joint and left just a red welt in the 'armpit' where it should have penetrated to break ribs, lungs and heart. The may be very good for long range use, however, for 50 yards or so, they are too soft and do not drop the deer without a run. I'm moving to the Remington ammo for cases and now using Barnes 150 grain XFN for my handloads. These I know will not be too soft. I can not speak to the quality or lack of in any other chambering as I've only used the 308me ammo.