OT: What pocket pistol to get??? UPDATE with PHOTO...

[Bogie35]

UPDATE: I decided to get the Taurus 605 in 357 Mag. I am officially a handgun owner now!! Yeeehaw! Thanks to all for sharing your wisdom!

Hey folks. I have never owned a high powered handgun.

After my cousin was brutally beaten by gang members recently, I have decided that it's time for me to pursue concealed carry. I have no idea what I need! Most of the time I will just carry my knife and leave the gun in the car. But I would like to have something small enough to carry (concealed) if I find myself in a particularly bad neighborhood.

What caliber? What gun? Should it be a revolver? I'm sure I don't need anything too powerful, but I certainly want it to work decisively if ever called upon. I've been looking at S&W J-frames so far, but are there any good quality guns that are a little less expensive?

Thanks for your wisdom and patience!

bogie

[missionary5155]

Good morning
For many years I have CC´d a 5 shot 38 special Rossi with a HIP- GRIP for hooking on the pants.
I carry it loaded with a 162 soft lead bulet loaded to +P.
I like the simplicity of a revolver. I also carry a speed loader in a pocket.
Up in the state of ILL it is not LEGAL yet to CC... but I know a feller who carries a light weight S&W 5 shot 357 mag with the same load listed above.

[jhrosier]

You just can't do much better than the S&W J frame for reliability and size.
Your choice will be which one to get.
I'm a big fan of stainless and hammerless, so I chose the Model 640.

The 640 is probably the heaviest of the J frames at 23 ounces.
Some folks like the lightweight aluminum or titainium framed guns.
Some of them get down to about 13 ounces.
I am willing to carry a bit more weight to get a steel frame.

Jack

[jeepnik]

5 shot .38. Pick the flavor of your choice, be it blued steel, stainless steel or one of the lightweight materials. Either a bobbed or "hamerless" design works best for pocket carry. Make sure you get a good pocket holster. They keep your revolver gunk free and in the proper position to draw.

Personally, I currently carry a Charter Arms Southpaw that has had the mammer bobbed. Funny how no one thinks a thing when your "left" hand is in your pocket. There are some good points to being a 20%er. As to brand, Smith, Taurus, and the above mentioned Charter arms are my preferences. I might catch forsaying this, but stay away from the Ruger LCR. If a handgun needs a recall just months from introduction, I have to wonder about the design and the engineering that went into it

[Bogie35]

Thanks guys!
For the folks with hammerless designs, do you ever wish you had the hammer? Am I going to miss having one? I just don't want to eliminate something, only to regret it later.

bogie

[jeepnik]

A few designs have "covered" hammers that leave a very small amount of the hammer exposed. Not enough to cause problems with the draw, but with practice you can cock the hammer. But truthfully, if you need a pocket gun, cocking the hammer probably won't be in the offing. But to answer your question, no, never miss it. Just practice shooting DA and you won't have a need for one.

[Bogie35]

And Jack,
That 640 looks sooooooo good! I'm drooling on my knuckles!

bogie

[Bogie35]

Thanks Jeepnik!

[Bogie35]

Good morning
For many years I have CC´d a 5 shot 38 special Rossi with a HIP- GRIP for hooking on the pants.
I carry it loaded with a 162 soft lead bulet loaded to +P.
I like the simplicity of a revolver. I also carry a speed loader in a pocket.
Up in the state of ILL it is not LEGAL yet to CC... but I know a feller who carries a light weight S&W 5 shot 357 mag with the same load listed above.

Rossi seems very affordable. Any problems with quality?

[nemhed]

Another vote for a hammerless J-frame.

I don't miss or ever wish for a hammer because that type of shooting is not what I got this for. It is strictly a front pocket, self defense, point and shoot tool.

[76/444]

All depends on what makes you comfortable.

The best pocket carry I own,... (as in the smallest) in my opinion, the 380 cal. Kel-Tec P_3AT pistol at 7.2 ounces is a dream come true. BUT,... it is a belly gun in my opinion. That means,... i pull it out as a last resort, up close and personal, under the chin or in the neck on my target.

Personally, if it suits you, I would look into some 5 shot 44 special revolvers over the 357/38 combo's. I prefer heavy slugs loaded down, in 44 mag, in in a S&W 329PD at 25.5 ounces empty it suits me fine. But, a loaded UP 44 spl would do the same. There are few out there in a wide range of prices starting with the Charter Bulldog on up!

Good luck making a choice. Too bad your cousin didn't consider a carry option before his attack.

[dr walker]

I just pulled it out of my pocket (notice the lint) to take a picture. This is one of the current and available S&W 442 without a lock.

[jeepnik]

I just pulled it out of my pocket (notice the lint) to take a picture. This is one of the current and available S&W 442 without a lock.

A wonderful example of why a pocket holster is needed. Keeps lint, and other debris to a minimum.

[Blaine]

I love my JFrames.....My Hammerless Centennial (640) is a very well made shooter. It is, tho, a bit heavy. Whatever one you get, shoot it double action only to get good with it that way....With just a little practice, you can hit golf balls at combat range....

[O.S.O.K.]

38 Special J Frames are a great choice.

Something else to consider for about $325-$350 is this:



Its a Kel-Tec PF-9, 9mm Parabelum - 7+1 rounds. Wieghs next to nothing and is less than an inch wide.

I just got mine a few weeks ago.

I did "dehorn" mine by using my pocket knife to scrape the slight mold lines off of the grip and areas that contact your hand when firing - this helped to make it much more comfortable to shoot.

I put 140 rounds through mine to test it and provide some "break-in".

It is not a target gun but will shoot about the same as a 5 shot snubby revolver, only giving you another 3 rounds without reloading.

9mm is available everywhere - like at Walmart and you can get practice ammo for $19/box of 100 - I recommend the Winchester White Box stuff over the Remington.

I carry mine in a Uncle Mike's clip pouch with the clip removed so its just a little pocket - to cover the trigger. The inside is slick and the outside rough, so it stays in your pants when drawn. I carry mine strongside "Mexican Carry" and this works great.

I recommend that you carry the thing all of the time - it disapears under a t-shirt or similar worn out.

[Pete44ru]

1) FWIW, stay outta "bad" neighborhoods - ESPECIALLY if you CCW, as (if push came to shove) it could be construed as you looking for trouble.

2) Go with stainless, for two reasons:
a) Less tendency towards rust in warm/humid climes and/or reaction to body moisture.
b) Higher visibility by badguy(s) when exposed - They will instantly KNOW what you have, and will often have a sudden change of heart.

3) PRACTICE ! - And, not on 25yd bullseye targets, either.
There's no real threat, unless close, and that's what your practice should be - Close (7yds), fast, and repeatedly with the ammo you're going to carry.

4) Get a good quality IWB or pocket holster, and not the least expensive option.

Firearm and holsters are alike, in that poor quality will be remembered long after a cheap price is forgotten - and may cost you something dear.

High quality will be cherished forever, and most likely last just as long.

.

[Doc Hudson]

Bogie,

if you are going to leave the gun in the car to be stolen, just leave it at home. it will do you about as much good there as it will stashed in your car. If you have a CCW permit, pack that pistol!

IMO there is no such thing as eing over-gunned. And since the .357 magnum is the best manstopper, that is what I recommend.

IMNSHO, the very best pocket revolvers on the market are the S&W Bodyguard Series and Centennial Series.

The Bodyguards,(Models 49, 638 and 649) have a shrouded hammer and single-action capability. The Centennials (Models 40, 442, and 640) is a true hammerless DA-only revolver. Both offer a snag-free draw from pocket, purse, or sporan, and can be fired repeatedly from inside a pocket! Both series of revolvers can be had in .38 S&W Special and .357 Magnum. Both are also available in the mosquito-weight titanium, scandium, unobtainium alloys, I sugget you avoid those things like the plague.

I recommend most highly the Model 649 and Model 640 in .357 Magnum.

These little poppers are small enough to stash in the pocket or your jeans, and they throw a 125 gr. JHP at velocities over 1200 fps. They buck stoutly, roar fiercely, and breathe filre like a dragon. Even an old duffer like me can learn to shoot fast double-taps if you commit to serious practice, and the blast and flash will disconcert your opponents more than it does you.

If you let your pocket magnum negotiate with gangbangers, they probably won't stick around long enough for your fifth shot to be more than a parting salute to their flying heels.

FWIW, I consider most pocket automatics to be too underpowered and too finicky to rely upon as a sole weapon.

[O.S.O.K.]

Pete - I hope you're not referring to my PF-9 as being poor quality.

It's inexpensive, but it's very reliable and well-made. Not everybody has $600+ to spend on a carry gun...

I would apply what you are saying to something like a Raven or similar cheap and unreliable piece.

And if you live in a higher crime area and need to leave the pistol in the car at times, this gun is more easily replaced than a nice Smith snubby.

ETA: Just trying to give him another option... one that carry's very well - sounded like he's like most folks in that he doesn't want the gun to show at all - and maybe worries too much about it. I know I did when I first started carrying.

Like I said in my first reply - a Smith J Frame is an excellent choice - I love mine - a Body Guard.

Oh, and the 9mm Para is an outstanding defense cartridge when good quality, modern hollow points are used. 125 grainers at 1100 fps are very effective - very similar to the same bullet from a .357 mag in fact - though the .357 edges the 9mm out - but not by much.

[Bogie35]

Thanks for all the great advice!
How about the Ruger SP101? Will it fit in a pocket holster?

bogie

[O.S.O.K.]

Thanks for all the great advice!
How about the Ruger SP101? Will it fit in a pocket holster?

bogie

Bogie, the SP101 is an excellent and super strong revolver. It is rather heavy though and not really a "pocket" gun. But it does do very well in an "inside the wasteband" type holster.

Here is a pic I found of a large 1911 in a IWB:



And here's another with a Sig - another pretty big autoloader:



I'd show a revolver, but couldn't find a pic... but the SP101 would hide very well with an IWB holster.

[madman4570]

I have found also the Kel-Tec stuff is very well made. (Also Taurus stuff)
Both of those two corps. are really putting the hurting on many other Corps.
Finally can get a reliable gun for around from $250-$350 (for which ever type you choose)

Normally,when I carry, I carry the Kel-Tec P32 just because I like it in my front pants pocket.
By the time I take the 6 oz gun and shove a loaded clip in, its enough for the pants pocket.

Otherwise, I use a belt slide holster with normally either a Taurus SS 9mm Millenium Pro (which I am still liking the manual safety when I rack one in the chamber carring it racked) with the Hot 1400fps stuff, but thats just me though.
Otherwise in that same slide fits my Kel-Tec P40 .40S&W stoked with 180grainers. Thats Tiny too for the Cal.

Its not the price that turns me too carry these,its their design/comfort. I have more higher priced guns its just these seem to just work best right now for me???

That PF-9 is one that does also looks very appealing as well!

[zack coyote]

My wife carries a S&W model 60, 3", in her purse or pocket, everywhere she goes. I carry a Taurus 605, 3", ( a close copy of the model 60) in my pocket where ever I go. I spend my life in jeans, and the gun is completely hidden. Both are loaded with .357 Mag. 125 gr. hollowpoints. We paid a tad over $500 for the Smith, and a little over $400 for the Taurus. They're both a little heavy, but it helps tame the recoil, and you get used to the weight. We live in rural Texas and the ner-do-wells seem to be drugged up, or drunk, so we don't want to be undergunned.

[Booger Bill]

Just another well experienced vote for a S&W J frame of your choice. I would bob the hammer if it had one, or else carry a version of the hammerless model 40. I had my model 60 stolen and got the old blue model 40. I have carried them on and off for 40 years.

[tman]

3 good ones to consider; keltec pf-9, keltec 32, glock 27 40s&w. one size dosen't fit all. the .32 is a lot easier to conceal than the 5 shot j frames. the pf-9 a little bigger, still eaiser to conceal with more firepower. the glock 27 has the firepower. the 40 is one of the very best when it comes to 1 shot stops, if you buy into the science behind it. the glock is very close to the j frame in size, but blows it out of the water in power and capacity. hope this helps.

[Leverdude]

I'v been carrying a Kel Tec P11 for the most part since I got it. Too big for a pocket but easy to conceal inside or outside the WB. I'v been carrying it in a pancake type holster lately but swap to IWB in warmer weather. Its lighter fully loaded with 11 rounds of 9MM than my stainless .380 with 6. Not fancy but it works & is cheap enough I dont care what happens to it. I'v got other bigger guns & they disapear nice too but arent as comfy as this one. I am considering one of the PF9's too because they have a lighter trigger.

[Pete44ru]

[Pete - I hope you're not referring to my PF-9 as being poor quality. ]

Naw, Jac - I was referrig to handguns that were both inexpensive AND of poor quality.

Actually, since Bogie stated in the OP he was new to high power handguns (presumeably anything over a .22 RF), I was recommending a revolver over an auto, as a "fail-safe" - with adequate stopping power as a by-product/plus.

.

[O.S.O.K.]

[Pete - I hope you're not referring to my PF-9 as being poor quality. ]

Naw, Jac - I was referrig to handguns that were both inexpensive AND of poor quality.

Actually, since Bogie stated in the OP he was new to high power handguns (presumeably anything over a .22 RF), I was recommending a revolver over an auto, as a "fail-safe" - with adequate stopping power as a by-product/plus.

.

Well that's a good point - I missed that.

I usually suggest a revolver as the first and foremost defensive arm regardless.... autoloaders are more fickle.

But, I carry them for the concealability and yes, the extra pops should it come to that.

And Leverdude, the P-11 is probably the very best value in defensive CCW's available.

[jnyork]

OK, this may sound like a silly question, but it isnt really. What kind of britches are you guys wearing that you can carry a J-Frame in a pocket holster without it showing? I wear jeans most of the time and I cant even get the dang rig INTO my pocket without a struggle, let alone get it out quickly. When I do wear shorts in the summer, I cant seem to find any with a pocket deep enough, the butt of the gun is still easy to see if you a walking behind me, doesnt hang out but the pocket is bulged out so you can peek in and see the gun.

[shooter]

I like a Ruger sp101. If you get a .357, it limits you to 5 shots, but a .38 or .327 Federal gives you six, and the .327 will put you closer to the power of a .357. I also like the S&W model 60? I think? It's a little light, compact 3" .357. Again, only 5 shots, but a good gun. I like revolvers, but if you're going with an auto, I like the kel-tecs, Khar, or a compact 1911. Just my .02.

[nemhed]

OK, this may sound like a silly question, but it isnt really. What kind of britches are you guys wearing that you can carry a J-Frame in a pocket holster without it showing? I wear jeans most of the time and I cant even get the dang rig INTO my pocket without a struggle, let alone get it out quickly. When I do wear shorts in the summer, I cant seem to find any with a pocket deep enough, the butt of the gun is still easy to see if you a walking behind me, doesnt hang out but the pocket is bulged out so you can peek in and see the gun.
OK, this may sound like a silly question, but it isnt really. What kind of britches are you guys wearing that you can carry a J-Frame in a pocket holster without it showing? I wear jeans most of the time and I cant even get the dang rig INTO my pocket without a struggle, let alone get it out quickly. When I do wear shorts in the summer, I cant seem to find any with a pocket deep enough, the butt of the gun is still easy to see if you a walking behind me, doesnt hang out but the pocket is bulged out so you can peek in and see the gun.

I wear loose carpenter jeans or cargo pants. While my j-frame in it's pocket holster does make a slight bulge, in four years of carry no one has ever said "Hey is that a gun in your pocket?". I haven't run into a pocket that isn't deep enough. Front pocket carry is my best option for work. Tight jeans would be a problem.

[O.S.O.K.]

I have to agree about the jeans - not good for j-frame pocket carry. Kakhi's work fine, but even then you get quite a bulge.

But, this is like all concealed carry - you just need the ????? to be there - if they don't know what it is, it's concealed.

That's the thing that changes the longer you carry - you begin to understand that people are not going to walk up to you and challenge you on what's in your pocket.

Do you challenge other people?

[Old Ironsights]

The SP101 is heavier & bigger than a J frame, but it's still carryable in some pockets - just not jeans pockets.

I carry mine daily in a moulded Kydex tuckable IWB. I've been known to put it in an Uncle Mikes Ankle Holster, a "511" brand fleece jacket/vest in the breast pocket holster, a DeSantis pocket holster, a "Clip Grip", a paddle holster, "mexican", etc. Come to think of it, not much I HAVEN'T carried it in except a double shoulder harness...

It conceals well, but Deep Cover it ain't. For Deep Cover I have my NAA Guardian (think Seecamp) in .32 ACP.

[madman4570]

I cannot imagine "any" J frame carried in the front pants pocket???
Holy cow, I have even tried that superlight newest Smith in .38 they have.(Not,no thanks)in the front pocket.
Other than the Kel-tec .32 or .380 forget it.(maybe that seacamp is ok?)
Also just dont like the idea of a loaded .357(.38 etc.) revolver stuck in my pocket bumping around.

Cant stand inside pants holsters either.Got one for the Colt 1991A1, No thanks,(its a pain in the side)after carring a P32 in the pants pocket.

Maybe its me but any gun without a safe for me to be carried in my pants(the chamber is clear,or it has a safe,even with the safe??)loose in the pants. I guess just the way I was brought up.
That Kel-Tec P40 is about same size as the P11 only .40S&W in the slide only about an inch or two of the barrel sticks below the belt,it rides very high and tight on outside of pants(not too bad to carry)
I will stick with the P32(unracked)in the pants.Much of the time I don't carry anyway.

[Bogie35]

I'm starting to think that the revolvers may be a little too big. Any experience with the Kahr PM45? It's smaller than the J-Frames, and with the 45ACP, it has plenty of bang.

bogie

[Hillbilly]

J york... I am 5-10 and a shade north of 210 pounds... I can tuck a SW 60 in a pair of Wranglers 13mwz jeans... it's a "no brainer" in a pair of Dockers for those rare trips to town with a nicer set of duds on.

Right now the 60 has stock SW banana handles and rides in a Uncle Mikes pocket holster. I forgot to take it out for this afternoons horse ride... and it really didnt matter... hardly noticed it.

If you dont want to spend the dollars for a SW go with a Taurus 85... just a tad thicker and bigger... but not enough to notice. Mine still rides as a back-up to the Smith and Wesson

[Booger Bill]

I showed a pocket holster with my model 40. Honestly I dont carry it in the pocket holster but just loose in my pocket. The holster wants to come out of my pocket with the gun. I packed for close to 40 years, not every day but periodicly. You must snub that hammer or carry a hammerless as I showed. For my part, I never could figure why they put hammer spurs on a snub! If I have to carry a snub in a holster, I can carry a 4" 357 as easy! I never had a problem just carrying them loose in my front pants pocket with jeans or shorts, but I also am a huge guy. Since I put on even more weight since I retired I also wear suspenders. I carry that pocket holster with the gun in it loose in my truck a lot to protect the finish. As far as being "printed", it doesnt happen, or it wasnt pointed out. I never worried about it as I always either had a job in uniform, or a permit. Besides open carry is allowed in my state, so I can go either way. However I only open carry in the boonies exploring with my quad, and even then I usualy carry in a manner that isnt easily noticed.

[dr walker]

As far as what jeans or pants do a J frame fit in, I wear Dickies carpenter jeans or Wrangler cargo shorts almost everyday. There is a definite bulge in that pocket, but not much different than my other pocket with keys, cell phone and pocket knife. Sometimes I put it in the cargo pocket, but it seems to bang in to my knee too much.

[Old Ironsights]

OK... I run 180lb dry:

2 guns, 48 rounds of ammo:



SP101 + 35 (5 in gun, 30 in Speed Strips)
NAA 32 + 13 rds (2 mags +1)

I still had room for a G27 & 2 mags if I wanted to go the ankle holster route with the SP101...

Bigger dudes (and dudes in Kilts) can pack more...

[gak]

Another +1 for J frame, but in my case .32 H&R Mag in 431PD or better yet for pocket duty the hammerless 432PD. For CCW, I don't feel undergunned with 6 warm Georgia Arms 100 gr JHPs, Federal personal defense or your choice of reloads. With most of these loads, roughly comparable midling-to-warm .38 Sp performance and, compared to some others here, negligible recoil and thus rapid/on target follow up. Like all Airweights, the .32M has negligible weight as the name suggests,...and is unique (among the J types) in offering that 6 rd capacity.

[Doc Hudson]

OK, this may sound like a silly question, but it isnt really. What kind of britches are you guys wearing that you can carry a J-Frame in a pocket holster without it showing? I wear jeans most of the time and I cant even get the dang rig INTO my pocket without a struggle, let alone get it out quickly. When I do wear shorts in the summer, I cant seem to find any with a pocket deep enough, the butt of the gun is still easy to see if you a walking behind me, doesnt hang out but the pocket is bulged out so you can peek in and see the gun.

Pants(Ptui)!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't wear no steekin' pants (ptui)!!!!

Wear the right kilt and you can stick a 7.5" Peacemakere in your pocket and no one would notice. Not joking here.

It really helps if you don't wear painted on jeans. if you wear 'em skin tight so you can tell if the quarter is heads or tails, no one will have a problem telling whether you have a pistol in your pocket or you are just glad to see them.

Wear relaxed fit jeans and it won't be a problem.

I strongly urge you use a pocket holster. Not only will it keep lint and other pocket crud out of the barrel and action, it will break up the outline of the revolver and make it harder to spot. Pocket holsters also protect your pocket from the front sight. I ruined dozens and dozens of pockets before I broke down and made my first pocket holster.

if your pocket is too shallow to keep your revolver concealed, simply wear a loose fitting long tailed shirt untucked.

I don't wear jeans any more and rarely wear trousers at all, but Ii do often wear cargo shorts. Again, don't wear 'em ski tight and you won't have a problem.

If you are of slim build, an IWB holster will work just fine. Us big guys have trouble with them though. As for a belt holster, you just can't go wrong with a Simply Rugged Silver Dollar Pancake holster. you can even order it with straps to use it as an IWB holster.

I've carried a pocket pistol of some sort almost constantly for the last 32 years. The only holster I've used with one, other than a pocket holster is a Simply Rugged Silver Dollar. Pocket carry is simple, reliable and easily available. It might not be the fastest way to draw a revolver, but it is the best way to ensure it is always there.

[pharmseller]

I carry a Ruger LCP in .380 in my front pants pocket.
If 6+1 won't do it, no J-frame will.
We're talking 10 or 12 feet, here, people.

P

[Doc Hudson]

RE: Missing SA capability with hammerless revolvers.

In a defensive situation, SA capability in a DA revolver si rarely needed.

If you happen to need SA capability for a longer shot, it is not difficult to master Trigger Cocking that comes very close to SA stability. Just squeeze the trigger to just before the point of sear release, steady your aim, then add a few more ounces of pressure for a steady shot. At least this is not a problem with an S&W M-640, i can't speak for Taurus hammerless designs.

[Booger Bill]

If you go back and look at my model 60 I posted, you will see the hammer bobbed. It also was flat on top and my gunsmith checkered the flat top of the hammer to where it could be carefully cocked pretty easy. A hint here is to buy a extra cold steel hammer for a model 36 and butcher that. Then rat hole the original hammer in case you want to later sell the gun. I carried that model 60 for a little over 30 years before it got stolen along with my truck. Every time I went shooting or in the boonies, I would fire a few rounds out of it along with whatever else. I had absolutely no problem cocking and shooting it single action. When you shoot a gun like that regularly, I had no problem bouncing a can all over with it.

[madman4570]

Some very interesting posts guys. Some stuff to consider for sure.
A lot of you guys sure have "a lot of experience" with this topic and its hard to beat that experience.
Points well taken----Thanks!

Jeepers, After all this carrying talk,I actually slipped the pistol into my pocket when just walking my 4 month old Lab around the Lake 30 mins ago! Wife said------Why are you taking that??
But packing, and with the Guard Dog----------------ya, I'm Bad!

Maybe I better start carrying more!
But this pup,OMG he just turned 4 months old 2 days ago----------51 lbs

[rjohns94]

Madman, I hear you. those pups grow fast. My dane is 135# and it seems carrying with him around is superfulous since the trails seem to thin out when they see him coming, but i still carry.

[Paladin]

I carry one of these two pocket pistols all the time in the U.S... My normal carry ranges from a S&W 329 .44 Mag to a Para SF45 with 13 rds of .45ACP.
I recommend you go to a gun store that stocks everything, handle anything you like the looks of and what ever feels good in your hand, lean in that direction and pick a caliber you can afford to shoot until you get comfortable with the selection you made. Even a .22lr is better than nothing and all you want is for the problem to go away or stop. Like I tell my students a hand gun is a defensive weapon you can carry because a rifle is too bulky to carry all the time. I have checked a lot of deaths caused by a 22 and a .22 Mag is my smallest carry. My State Police Department required us to carry a .380 or larger.

[madman4570]

Madman, I hear you. those pups grow fast. My dane is 135# and it seems carrying with him around is superfulous since the trails seem to thin out when they see him coming, but i still carry.

Mike,

Those Great Danes are stunning dogs and coming up the good old trail??? Yep,you got the whole trail friend!

[KCSO]

Before you buy any gun go somewhere and try a few. A J frame Smith is a top notch gun but not what I would want a beginner to shoot for starters. You need first off to get a gun that is easy to shoot and cheap enough to practice with. A hit from a 22 will be 100% better than a miss from a 45. Even with wadcutters a 38 snubbie is going to be at the ragged edge of what you are going to shoot well with as a starter and you will need to shoot. Other wise that gun on your hip is just decoration. For a beginner a 3" J frame 22 is a real good starting point and will serve an expert well as a woods gun. After you get some time under your belt you can always move up. In 30 years as a training officer I have always started the recruits with a 22 and then moved up as ability and confidence built up. I never had one come back from academy quals with shooting problems.

[Pete44ru]

Allowing for X-ray vision, this goes inside the pants:





.

[Old Ironsights]

That's the "safe" way to go "Mexican"... and is the way Tom Sellek carried his 1911 for "Magnum PI"...