250 GMX .45-70 ammo

[vancelw]

I got my new Hornady catalog yesterday. They are showing a new .45-70 load with a 225 gr GMX gummy-tip bullet.
No ballistics were listed since it is still in R&D. Kinda interested to see what they claim.

I've had very good results from the 325 gr FTX in my own load and have not tried any of the GMX bullets yet.

[RKrodle]

WOW, that sure seems to me to be a very light bullet for 45-70. With the right powder you should be able to really launch that down the tube.

[Buck Elliott]

OK, I have to ask it... WHY?

[vancelw]

WOW, that sure seems to me to be a very light bullet for 45-70. With the right powder you should be able to really launch that down the tube.

I actually made a mistake. It's supposed to be a 250 gr GMX gummy tip. I've looked around and the lightest bullet I find data on is a 300gr. I guess it will be a year or so before they offer that bullet to the public. The catalog listed a bunch of new item that are not reflected on the website yet.

Buck-I'm sure they think there's a market for it. Makes you wonder if they got requests for such a thing or if they're just "jumping out there"

[O.S.O.K.]

Maybe their new varmint load for the 45-70?

[Hobie]

OK, I have to ask it... WHY?

Because velocity is thought to be the king of ammo marketing?

[Buck Elliott]

Companies get constant "requests" from the armchair Brigade... It's then up to the Company to figure out if there's a valid reason to put such a loony idea into production.

I have no doubt that Hornady could sell DOZENS of those bullets!

[86er]

I've not experienced any advantage to the 250 gr Barnes over a heavier weight. I do have a CA client that uses them due to the lead free requirement. He still shoots some but has mainly switched over to 300's. If Hornday has a 250 GMX I suppose it will fill that niche as well but once again there probably won't be an advantage over a 300 gr. BTW this is just a peeve of mine but GMX (Gilding Metal) isn't really. Trade Gilded metal is 95/5 but Hornday's is 97.5/2.5

[tman]

i don't really see the sense in dropping down below 300 grains in a 45-70. a gmx 250 in a .348wcf. would make a lot more sense

[Mike D.]

The issue with the 300 vs the 250 Barnes TSX is length. The 300 is 1.053" and the 250 is .918". Reduced powder charges are needed with the 300 to avoid severely compressed loads. The 250 gr TSX is all that you need to stone CA Blacktail and Mule deer. They also kill pigs quite as nicely as handily as the larger ones do. Why does everyone insist that you must use the biggest and heaviest bullet in the .45-70. I don't get it.

[Leverluver]

Why does everyone insist that you must use the biggest and heaviest bullet in the .45-70. I don't get it.

Too many Cialis and Viagra commercials ??

[wilko]

The issue with the 300 vs the 250 Barnes TSX is length. The 300 is 1.053" and the 250 is .918". Reduced powder charges are needed with the 300 to avoid severely compressed loads. The 250 gr TSX is all that you need to stone CA Blacktail and Mule deer. They also kill pigs quite as nicely as handily as the larger ones do. Why does everyone insist that you must use the biggest and heaviest bullet in the .45-70. I don't get it.

agreed.. i welcome new idea's and products.. if the bullet holds up well and proves accurate in my gun i will surely use it !!!!

[86er]

I ageed with Mike - if it works, use it. I spoke to my client this morning. While I put it that he did not see any advantage to the 250 gr over the 300gr what he said this morning is slightly different. He told me there was virtually no difference in performace using 250 gr Barnes or 300 gr Barnes. He says he uses the 300's more because they are more readily available and he can use jacketed 300 gr bullets outside of the condor zones with almost no change in sight-in. He said he shoot out to 200 yds with either a 1995 production Marlin 1895 22" or a 2008 production Marlin XLR with the sights set to put the bullet 2" high at 100 yds. On deer and pigs he says he has had 100% exits with the 300gr but recovered two 250 gr (out of how many I don't know - forgot to ask). Obviously if he recovered the bullets the animals were dead. SO - Hornady's new 250's may find a place in your arsenal, especially if you must use the lead-free bullets. Initial reports are that Hornady bullets will be about 22% less than the comparable Barnes.

[O.S.O.K.]

Barnex X type bullets are different - they do seem to perform to the next weight level up.

But the Hornady bullets are cup and core types...

[Mike D.]

It has been my experience that the Barnes TSX bullets have a higher POI at most ranges than do lead or jacketed lead bullets of the same weight. I use these bullets in most of the hunting rifles we use in Condor Country. Most of my lever gun hunting is done using .30-06, .45-70 and .45-90 Winchester rifles and Barnes Bullets. They are expensive, but do get the job done. My last buck was taken at 229 yds. One shot, 150 gr TSX, dropped DIP.

[86er]

The new Hornady GMX is a Gilded Metal Bullet, not cup and core. It is a monolithic non-toxic bullet. It is made to compete directly with the Barnes X styles. Back up to my rant about the GMX not living up to the "GM" part of the name.

[Mike D.]

I wasn't aware of the "Gilded Metal" composition of the Hornady bullets. These pig loads are 60 grs IMR 4198 under 250 gr Barnes TSX bullets and sparked by Winchester LR primers. Should do the trick for hog rolling.

[vancelw]

Hornady had NEW printed by several things in the 2010 catalog, including a .308 GMX gummy tip designed for .30-30 Win and a new .22 Mag with a v-max style bullet on it.

I'm interested to see what velocities they drive the 250 GMX .458 to.
I'm guessing the GMX would need higher velocities to expand, and still wouldn't expand like an FTX would.

Anybody out there got any "insider" information?

[76/444]

OK, I have to ask it... WHY?

Yup,....ditto!

[3leggedturtle]

Why does everyone insist that you must use the biggest and heaviest bullet in the .45-70. I don't get it.
Too many Cialis and Viagra commercials ??

Thats funny Was in Love's last nite they had Cialis trial pacs for sale at the counter

[76/444]

Why does everyone insist that you must use the biggest and heaviest bullet in the .45-70. I don't get it.

Too many Cialis and Viagra commercials ??

Hmmm,... this question makes me think of another.

Why load down a 45/70 to a lesser caliber?

[vancelw]

Why load down a 45/70 to a lesser caliber?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLrpBLDWyCI
http://www.yodajeff.com/multimedia/soun ... belive.wav

Versatility my friend.
It would still be .458 caliber.
Not every one can go buy a new rifle every time they want a different loading. Having more options leads to even more loading possibilities. Columbus didn't find the new world by sailing in circles around the Mediterranean.

I like to try something new. If it doesn't work, I can abandon it. If it does work for the application I want to use it, I will stick with it.

[O.S.O.K.]

Those Hornady 250 grainers are cup and core with an expansion initiator - pushed much past 1800 fps, they will turn inside out and only penetrate a short distance IMHO. Probably enough to kill the deer or hog with a rib/chest shot but I wouldn't ask it to go through shoulder bone.

I personally regard 300 grains as the minimum weight for the 45-70 - the standard 300 grain HP factory loads going 1800-1850 are about perfect for whitetail and hogs. A 350 grain soft point gives you some more penetration and a 400 grainer will give more- or cause more trauma depending on the bullet construction.

I think the most useful loads for the 45-70 are 300 to 450 grains.

A 250 X Bullet actually behaves like a 300 grain bullet and so I put that with the cup and core 300's.

[86er]

We are clearly not speaking of the same bullets. Hornady GMX is the Gilded Metal Expanding bullet. It is monolithic Gilded Metal (sort of) with a slight hollow cavity and a rubber tip to initiate expansion. This is H's non-toxic competitor to the Barnes X.

[vancelw]

.45-70 250 gr GMX.jpg

I have not been able to find info on this anywhere else. The catalog shows it to be under R&D and the website shows nothing (unless it's on the media pages). So, there are no ballistic charts or BCs listed on it.

I personally will try them when the bullets become available to reloaders. I have killed over a hundred deer-sized animals with 150 grain bullets in .308 caliber. I see no reason to think that a 250 grain in .458 won't kill one as well. The advantage I see is that I can shoot it in my 1886 levergun I don't really need any more incentive.


86er- is your "peeve" about the GMX moniker due to the material not being true "gilding metal", or do you feel the composition difference you mention will affect performance?

[86er]

I'm just referring to the mis-use of the Gilded Metal name. It is a copper alloy but by definition is not Gilded Metal. The performance should be fine with H's composition, there is only a slight difference.

[O.S.O.K.]

OH, my bad - I didn't realize this was their new "x bullet" design.

Then, given it acts like the Barnes product, I'd say the 250 could be a fine deer round.

But I still like 300 grian bullets.

[Buck Elliott]

If you're gonna load a .45-70 with 250-gr. bullets --- YOU MIGHT AS WELL HAVE A .444


(no offense, guys -- just funnin'...)

[Mike D.]

That's true, Buck, but I don't own a .444. I do have 5 1886s in .45 caliber, so playing with different weight bullets makes for some interesting fun. I do like the old Hornady 350 RN for serious bigger game hunting out of "Condorville" and CA. In order to protect those lead loving Condors we must stick with the alternatives, though.

[vancelw]

In order to protect those lead loving Condors we must stick with the alternatives, though.

Let me guess, the condors run around gobbling the spent projectiles up like candy?

I can't say anymore or it'll get political.

[76/444]

If you're gonna load a .45-70 with 250-gr. bullets --- YOU MIGHT AS WELL HAVE A .444


(no offense, guys -- just funnin'...)

Heeeeeeeeey!!! I resemble that remark!!!

Even I don't go that light in 444.

[rusty gunns]

OK, I have to ask it... WHY?

Because velocity is thought to be the king of ammo marketing?

True Hobie, but its kind of like wondering if you'd rather be run over by a Mustang going 130 miles an hour, or an Amtrack train going around 50.

In either case its an unpleasant experience.

Like my first girlfriend always said. "There's a place for big and a place for fast."

[Streetstar]

OK, I have to ask it... WHY?

Yup,....ditto!

Im guessing because gilded metal is not as dense per gram, therefore, a 325 - 405 gr gilded metal bullet would be way too long ?

Wonder if it will work right with the rifling twists out there for the most common 45-70 leverguns