Way OT- Turn in firearms...

[cutter]

This is something I have wondered about, especially after the Australian gun ban.

If the feds outright ban guns, when the pokey knocks on your door demanding you give them over*, what are you going to do?

Have you already hid them? You gona' hand'em over? Or, are you going to fight? We know they can find out easily who has them, we saw that after the DC Plinker, so they know you're armed.

*Assuming they don't just shoot you on sight.

[Rebel1972]

I think I would rather them just shoot me on sight.

[Blaine]

I'll pick out 4 or 5 they can have That should get them on the way and we'll both still be happy

[TedH]

I'll pick out 4 or 5 they can have That should get them on the way and we'll both still be happy

That's exactly what I was going to say. I have enough from private purchases to keep me happy should the day ever come.

[canonsix]

What guns I dont have no stinking guns . Doug

[Leverdude]

My dog ate them.

[homefront]

The fight happens now, every day, while those chimp brains are trying to pass their moronic laws.
If we let it go now, the fight we have later will involve flying lead.

[FWiedner]

When they come, they will knock and they will come in. They will not wait for your permission.

They will confine, restrain, or subdue anyone in your home, hold them at gunpoint, and toss your house searching for guns.

Unless you see them coming you won't have a chance to do anything but stand there and steam, or lie there with a boot on your face and steam.

They WILL injure or kill you if you resist.

So if you choose to resist, make a good show of it.

If you're gonna cache 'em so that you have one, or two, or a few left, do it now. Don't wait for someday. Because someday is coming sooner than you think.

[Warhawk]

I'll sold all mine right after ya'll passed this "ban" law ...

[AJMD429]

They probably aren't going to just politely knock on doors and ask for firearms. Generally, they first register them on some lame pretext ('fighting crime' is hard to argue with, or 'protecting children' or whatever). Next, they license certain ones, again for some seemingly noble reason.

Like the prior laws on 'machine guns' and 'assault weapons' they will count on a confused public, and dishonest and stupid journalists, to get such laws passed, and the NRA will be 'reasonable' and compromise.

Even gun owners will be complicit, because those of us who like civil war replicas really don't like the 'black gun' weirdos making all that noise, or the duck hunters really don't see a reason anyone 'needs' a $20 pocket pistol.

Additionally, when a new restriction is passed, those who already own the particular type of firearm in question will (thanks to the 'hard work' of the NRA in forging a 'workable compromise') have their firearms grandfathered in. So, see - it isn't really a 'ban' - like the serial-number-stamping thing in Kalifornia, they won't have the balls to go door-to-door to confiscate the existing firearms which don't have the required device, they will kindly just require it for NEW firearms. New purchasers won't have any choice, and previous owners will roll their eyes, but won't do much to stop it, because they already have theirs. Gun owner's 'rugged individualism' is great, but it winds up being their un-doing; you'd have a far more difficult time banning golf clubs than guns, in part because golfers would probably be less 'individualistic' and be more organized, and more 'up in arms' about it than gun owners - (irony of word choice intentional ).

So, little by little there is attrition, because shooting becomes something to be at first 'discrete' about mentioning, then 'embarrased' - and eventually something very few bother to jump the hoops to do legally, so most of it will be clandestine. By then, the public will be so anti-gun that whenever someone is 'targeted' because of gun ownership, it's only a matter of planting a rumor or planting 'evidence' that the person was a wife-beater, child-molester, drug-pusher, or shot a spotted owl - once you've demonized the person by making up such a story, nobody will think it bad when the cops show up and kick down their door. More 'evidence' of what a bad person they are/were will be had when the news crew shows the 'arsenal' of guns they had in their home.

We ALREADY buy into it every day, and there are just enough REAL criminals out there for us to always cheer on the next time a door gets kicked in. Right now it's maybe only 1 in 10,000 that was just an ordinary guy with too many guns so the neighbors got nervous, or a bad cop got jealous, but if we follow the European pathway (like we have in nearly everything else) it will soon be 1 out of 1,000 then 1 out of 100 and so on. Eventually the police will focus more on contraband/firearms issues than real crime.

[dbateman]

The police over here dont need a worent to kick in your door if you have
a firearms license the fact that you are law abiding citezen is enugh
for them to blow your door in

there were 20 millon sks/skk imported in to Au in the buy back thay
only got 500,000 back

[Scott64A]

If there is a complete ban, I'll shoot them.

I believe completely in our founding fathers' wisdom and tenacity.
We did it once, we can do it again.

[Bruce Scott]

When it happened here, the licenced guns that had become illegal were turned in. It was either that or prosecution. The pain was somewhat eased as these were 'bought back'.

An amnesty was also in place for unregistered/unlicenced guns of all types. Criminal elements were foremost in taking advantage of the amnesty -

[Retro]

I've seen the question asked many times. I think the real answer is :

1. When asked, say that you will deny having guns, that you won't hand your guns over, that you'll fight to keep 'em.

2. When it actually happens, hand over your guns.

At least, that's the way I sum up most people, I'm afraid.

Also, what's the use of keeping your guns hidden if you can't take 'em out and use them?

[dbateman]

you can still use them just do it quietly

[gamekeeper]

When it happened here, the licenced guns that had become illegal were turned in. It was either that or prosecution. The pain was somewhat eased as these were 'bought back'.

An amnesty was also in place for unregistered/unlicenced guns of all types. Criminal elements were foremost in taking advantage of the amnesty -

Yup, that's what happened here too!

I'm all for revolution but until the sheeple are suffering enough to fight back I'd be a little out numbered.

[bigbore442001]

I think it would be prudent to have a few junkers around to hand over if the second amendment was ever repealled. That would take the heat of suspicion off of you.

[Ysabel Kid]

I'm make the paper/news. Hopefully one of many who said "hell no!" and went down fighting. I have no delusions about what the state will do to enforce this. My family hasn't fought and bled in every war since the War of Northern Aggression to simply have me bend over while they, er, strip me of my rights...

[FALPhil]

You guys need to read Unintended Consequences and then make you own decisions quietly. Don't discuss them in a public forum. It could be construed to be conspiracy by a hoplophobic legal system.

[Old Time Hunter]

AJMD429, +1 you nailed it on the head!!!

[Comal Forge]

You guys need to read Unintended Consequences and then make you own decisions quietly. Don't discuss them in a public forum. It could be construed to be conspiracy by a hoplophobic legal system.

I agree. There are many posts on the Internet that I do not comment on specifically because I do not want my opinion or personal infomation aired in public. You can call it careful, or chicken-s*&t, or paranoid - I really don't care - but I'll cross the 'confiscation' bridge if and when I get to it.

I will say quite conclusively that one of the reasons Hitler was successful is that people turned their backs and went along with the increasing brutality from the early days. He lost the Beer Hall Putsch in 1923 and was put in prison. He would have still been fairly easy to stop in 1932 but nobody did and he was in complete power by '39. It only took a few years to wreck Germany and remove the rights of anyone that disagreed with him (and we didn't have the Internet and satellite surveillance then). Don't tell me it can't happen here - there are a lot of dead Germans who would disagree. BTW, their domestic name for it was the Social Democratic Party of Germany (Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands).

[FWiedner]

Any modern firearm that you have is already registered. There is a list.

Remember that 4473 that you filled out? Remember the NICS and Brady paperwork?

If you think that they don't keep those records, you are only fooling yourself.

If you can't account for a firearm that they have a record of you purchasing, the confiscating agency will MAKE you accountable. They will arrest, imprison, and interrogate you if you do not produce every article that they have paper or electronic records on. They may arrest, imprison and interrogate your wife and children. Think of water-boarding as family fun, real quality time.

They ain't comin' to play patty-cake, guys.

[crawdaddyjim]

Ok, this is strange. I agree with Mr. Wiedner again. Either they got to me in my sleep or he took the green pill......

[RIHMFIRE]

Remember what Charlton Heston said
"From our cold dead hands"

[Lastmohecken]

Any modern firearm that you have is already registered. There is a list.

Remember that 4473 that you filled out? Remember the NICS and Brady paperwork?

If you think that they don't keep those records, you are only fooling yourself.

If you can't account for a firearm that they have a record of you purchasing, the confiscating agency will MAKE you accountable. They will arrest, imprison, and interrogate you if you do not produce every article that they have paper or electronic records on. They may arrest, imprison and interrogate your wife and children. Think of water-boarding as family fun, real quality time.

They ain't comin' to play patty-cake, guys.

I can't see how they could make you account for all of the guns purchased, Heck, If I had every gun I ever bought laying in the back of a pickup truck, they would be falling over the sides. There is no way I could account for all of the guns I have owned over the years. And many guns will have several 4473's filled out on them because there are many guns that pass through many different hands over a few years.

[Blaine]

The press and anti-gun nuts point to the NRA and what they call other radical gun nuts. We have to somehow mainstream guns....rallies? Advertisments? The NRA and other gun rights organizations have congress and other law makers covered, but WE have to make a stand, or The People will think it's just another PAC making a buck. Think Million Owner March, or half page ads......bumper stickers: Gun Control = Back of The Bus, Boy and so on....... Let's somehow make it personal.

[FWiedner]

Any modern firearm that you have is already registered. There is a list.

Remember that 4473 that you filled out? Remember the NICS and Brady paperwork?

If you think that they don't keep those records, you are only fooling yourself.

If you can't account for a firearm that they have a record of you purchasing, the confiscating agency will MAKE you accountable. They will arrest, imprison, and interrogate you if you do not produce every article that they have paper or electronic records on. They may arrest, imprison and interrogate your wife and children. Think of water-boarding as family fun, real quality time.

They ain't comin' to play patty-cake, guys.

I can't see how they could make you account for all of the guns purchased, Heck, If I had every gun I ever bought laying in the back of a pickup truck, they would be falling over the sides. There is no way I could account for all of the guns I have owned over the years. And many guns will have several 4473's filled out on them because there are many guns that pass through many different hands over a few years.

OK, going over the edge now...

If I were a tyrant collecting guns and you said "No" to me, I'd just shoot you on the spot to ensure that in the event you were lying, you still couldn't use or have access to the guns that I believe you to be lying about.

You are assuming that the gun collectors will accept your flimsy excuses. Be assured that they will not.

You will account, or you will be held accountable.

All hypothetical of course.

[kimwcook]

Well as an LEO I'll weigh in with my opinion. I'm a solid right wing pro second amendment citizen. This situation has been discussed with other LEO's before and to every single one they all said they wouldn't take part in stripping people of their firearms. LEO's are still people and react to situations a lot like most other people. Granted it's just talk at this time and talk is cheap. Hope we'll never have to put it to the test.

I'll quit long before I start taking people's firearms and I'll be on the other side. Let's just stay vigilante now and push to keep it a right and we won't have to get to that point. That's why I've been a member of the NRA for more years than I want to admit and hope to be a life member soon.

[Blaine]

FWiedner learned his trade scabbing during the recent writter's strike....

[FWiedner]

Actually, I learned the technique described above while working as a collection agent for Sears.

[AJMD429]

If you can't account for a firearm that they have a record of you purchasing, the confiscating agency will MAKE you accountable. They will arrest, imprison, and interrogate you if you do not produce every article that they have paper or electronic records on. They may arrest, imprison and interrogate your wife and children. Think of water-boarding as family fun, real quality time.

If I were a tyrant collecting guns and you said "No" to me, I'd just shoot you on the spot to ensure that in the event you were lying, you still couldn't use or have access to the guns that I believe you to be lying about.
You are assuming that the gun collectors will accept your flimsy excuses. Be assured that they will not.

In other countries, history clearly demonstrates they don’t even bother with that formality - if they THINK you have a dozen guns, they will beat you until you hand a dozen over. If they just don’t like your race/religion/politics, they will pretend they think you own more than you possibly could, just so in the end, they still have good reason to arrest or shoot you. It isn’t like there is some jury of your peers who will carefully weigh the evidence and decide what is ‘reasonable.’

This situation has been discussed with other LEO's before and to every single one they all said they wouldn't take part in stripping people of their firearms.

Remember what history and bitter experience has shown us:

1. LEO’s already are stripping people of their firearms; many times for legitimate reasons, like the person is a violent criminal. Other times, however, there is some ‘felony’ but it is a non-violent or victimless crime situation; often a matter of registration paperwork, or a technicality of which state or locale a permit is valid in. We accept this on the basis that an honest person should still follow the law, even if the law is silly (like the ones involving bayonet lugs and so forth). So, we’ve already demonstrated that well-intentioned LEO’s will confiscate firearms, and will arrest individuals on pretexts which really don’t justify the mandatory penalties the individual will face. This misuse of our LEO’s is something anti-gun mayors and police chiefs should be held accountable for, but the individual LEO has to go along with it, because they will otherwise lose their job, and so far they are generally using these technicalities mostly against ‘trailer trash’ people we don’t have much sympathy for, even if they aren’t really criminals who are harming anyone.

2. LEO’s can be lied to by their superiors. Few would go out and just take a normal person’s guns, but when the dispatch indicates the person in question is a real dirtbag, the LEO will do it with glee and pride. Of course they should, if the individual really is a bad guy. After a person’s mug shot is in the paper, the news crew has filmed their ‘arsenal’ being hauled away, and they have been fired from their job, and face tens of thousands of dollars in legal bills, the damage is done, whether they eventually prove their innocence or not.

3. Most police chiefs and sheriff’s will gladly ‘cooperate’ with federal LEO’s on a ‘bust’ - thinking there may be good press involved, and not wanting to anger his/her superiors. So although the local, potentially pro-gun and honest LEO might not knowingly participate in a gun confiscation, they will likely be involved in select cases, whether they realize it or not, and they will surely NOT be told it’s just a gun grab (see #2 above).

4. I don’t know the particulars of the following case, but how many of the LEO’s involved simply thought it was a ‘routine’ matter and the guy would be cleared once they found it was just a worn sear or whatever? Granted, those of us in leverland don’t have to worry about this particular law, but the situation is illustrative of how a law’s intent gets twisted sometime between enactment, enforcement, and verdict.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/print ... E_ID=59650

A drill instructor in the National Guard has been convicted in a Wisconsin federal court of illegally transferring a machine gun after a rifle he loaned to a student malfunctioned, setting off three shots before jamming.
The verdict of guilty on one count in the case against David Olofson was confirmed yesterday by the clerk's office in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Wisconsin.
That means now that anyone whose weapon malfunctions is subject to charges of having or handling a banned gun...

DESPITE THE 'REASSURING' FACT THAT

...the 2008 edition of Firearms Law Deskbook quotes from a 1999 case in which the court concluded the law on automatic weapons "is not intended to trap the unwary innocent, and well intentioned citizen who possess an otherwise semi-automatic weapon that, by repeated use of the weapon, by the inevitable wear and tear of sporting activities, or by means of mere inattention, happenstance, or illfortune, fires more than semi-automatically."

I’m glad I’m not a LEO, because I don’t see how as a LEO, you could really avoid being part of this system, even if you had good intentions.

LEO’s are a lot like gun owners in general - we’re losing our rights simply because although we are all pro-gun, we each have different thresholds for firing off the angry letter to the editor, or calling our legislator, or taking time off work to go demonstrate or attend a meeting. With our LEO’s, unless they all have exactly the same ‘threshold’ for when they would stand their ground and refuse an order, there will never be a point where lack of LEO personnel makes it impossible for an anti-gun administrator to go gun grabbing - a few will quit with each ‘threshold’ depending on their own attitude and age and so on, but the anti-gunners will just keep pushing the envelope, and gradually replace their departments with reformed skinheads who want an excuse to legally go hurt people.

It’s already happening in many big cities, and more than one elderly holocaust survivor I’ve met says it is just like what they remember 70 years ago.

[MikeS.]

their domestic name for it was the Social Democratic Party of Germany (Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands).

I thought they were called the National Socialist Workers Party, where we got NAZI from?

Some time within the next 100 years or less no private citizen in this country will own a firearm.

[edwardyoung]

They'd(whoever they are) probably ask the UN if their blue-hatted boys would be willing to take care of the confiscation, if too many American law-enforcement or military types balked.

[FWiedner]

They won't need the U.N.

American LEO's and the National Guard will do the job and talk about what heros they are afterwards.

All they'll do is ship LEOs and Guardsmen to different jurisdictions for "joint operations", so that they won't have to look their neighbors in the eye as they kick down doors, beat up old ladies , and hold guns to children's heads.

Think New Orleans. You don't think that stuff was an accident do you?

Even with all the laws they've passed in several states saying that guns can't be confiscated during emergencies, all they have to do is declare martial law and civil law, habeus corpus, and every constitution in the land is moot.

[Jason_W]

Any gun ban in this country will be sneaky and incremental. The first step will be another "assault weapons" ban. Also, I see guns, ammo, and reloading components becoming too expensive for the average Joe (possibly through some type of sin tax). Governments know the whole thing about boiling the frog slowly.

Sometimes I wonder if some of these horrific mass shootings were somehow instigated by an anti-gun entity. How hard would it be to find an vulnerable, unstable teenager and then encourage him to go on a shooting spree? If I wanted guns banned at any cost, that's the approach I would take.

[cutter]

I think when it happens, it will be sudden. I'm seeing persons, who I don't asociate with the 'paranoid' type, stocking ammo.

The Australian gun ban was sudden. Excused because of a school shooting. Of course , the anti-gun sentimat in Australia started much earlier in the century than it did in the US. The Australians were also the first to attack ammunition, and optical sighting devices. This is just now being done in the US.

Dianne Feinstein is just waiting for the proper number of votes, to introduce a gun ban bill. She has said this publicly.

[waz]

We also got suckered to a point.

It was after the Port Arthur tourist park shooting in 1996. In Queensland, they introduced the Queensland Shooter's Licence. It was free and we were told it will never expire, and because we don't have the cover of your 2nd Amendment and we are law-abiding citizens, we applied and got it. Easy. End of story.

..... or so we thought......

Then came the Queensland Weapons Act. Anyone with a Shooter's Licence was contacted and told that it was now void, we had to declare all weapons, and now it costs and expires. Bingo! we've just been hung out to dry.

W

[gamekeeper]

As Was stated about being suckered, that happened here in 1968 with shotguns. After two policemen were shot with a hand gun the Government decided to tighten controls on shotguns!?!?.

Up until then a shotgun licence cost 10 shillings from a Post office and lasted 12 months, the Government offered a new licence that lasted 3 years and only cost 5 shillings but was issued by the police. The rest is just history.

[Comal Forge]

their domestic name for it was the Social Democratic Party of Germany (Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands).

I thought they were called the National Socialist Workers Party, where we got NAZI from?

Some time within the next 100 years or less no private citizen in this country will own a firearm.

It was called the Social Dem Party within Germany - Sozi for short. Nazi developed into wider usage outside the country.

[bogus bill]

They DID take them in new orleans during katerina!!

[stretch]

When the Feds want your guns, they'll kick your doors in and take 'em.
The LEOs WILL be on board, and they'll be told you're a "terrorist" or
something, and that will be that. Just look at NAZI Germany - lots
of good Germans went along with anything the NAZI's did, because either
they or their families were threatened. Any Federal gun paperwork
can and WILL be used against you. Think about it for ten seconds -
all the government has to do is label gun owners "terrorists", and all
of the provisions of the Patriot Act come into play. We are not as
far away from that as most folks would like to think.

[don Tomás]

Well as an LEO I'll weigh in with my opinion. I'm a solid right wing pro second amendment citizen. This situation has been discussed with other LEO's before and to every single one they all said they wouldn't take part in stripping people of their firearms. LEO's are still people and react to situations a lot like most other people. Granted it's just talk at this time and talk is cheap. Hope we'll never have to put it to the test.

I'll quit long before I start taking people's firearms and I'll be on the other side. Let's just stay vigilante now and push to keep it a right and we won't have to get to that point. That's why I've been a member of the NRA for more years than I want to admit and hope to be a life member soon.

Retired LEO here. Used to think this until Chocolate Nagin sent the guys in to confiscate guns in New Orleans. Guess I must be stuck on stupid...
Tom

[FALPhil]

Any modern firearm that you have is already registered. There is a list.

Remember that 4473 that you filled out? Remember the NICS and Brady paperwork?

If you think that they don't keep those records, you are only fooling yourself.

Who buys guns in a gun shop? And half of mine are home made, courtesy of Roderus.

[FWiedner]

Any modern firearm that you have is already registered. There is a list.

Remember that 4473 that you filled out? Remember the NICS and Brady paperwork?

If you think that they don't keep those records, you are only fooling yourself.

Who buys guns in a gun shop? And half of mine are home made, courtesy of Roderus.

Have you purchased ammunition? Reloading components? Did you use a credit card?

Plenty of lists out there that identify potential gun-owners.

Do you have a hunting license? Are you a member of the NRA?

You KNOW, of course, that the NRA will surrender it's membership list to the feds faster that you can say "reasonable regulation", if they haven't already done so.



Remember TIA?

[brucew44guns]

Lately I have been watching the "Military" channel on TV. I am utterly amazed at the high tech weapons that exist now, to detect and stop an enemy. Weapons that can see you through your walls on a dark night, knowing exactly where you are in the house. There are relatively small arms, that in the hands of a couple soldiers, could level your house in 2 seconds setting everything on fire. With about 40 or 50 commando's outside, and a bull horn ordering you out of your home, I think most men would come on out with their family before everything went up in a loud bang. Always thought Hestons statement was a noble thing to say, but with overwhelming odds that would kill your kids, wife, and possibly other family members, not too many would shoot back. Is a Marlin Guide Gun or some such rifle going to take on armored high tech super weapons? Some one starts pulling off your toe nails one at a time, you may just tell them where the guns are buried. Bruce

[cutter]

Well I don't know guys, I've seen Rambo enough to know what an armed man can do in the face of overwhelming odds.

Seriously though, aren't our troubles in the mideast because of a 'ununiformed' army who won't fight in the open? Same as in Vietnam?

Reading history, no army has ever matched a civilian uprising without resorting to outright massacre. I will not entertain the thought of US soldier slaughtering US civilians. Cops maybe, but not soldiers.

[Jeff Pitts]

I think if guns ARE outlawed, our Founding Fathers would expect something out of us. Living up to their ideals.

They would expect something from us they went through to give us this right.

They would expect war.

Jeff

[dbateman]

[quote="brucew44guns"]Lately I have been watching the "Military" channel on TV. I am utterly amazed at the high tech weapons that exist now, to detect and stop an enemy. Weapons that can see you through your walls on a dark night, knowing exactly where you are in the house.


you can buy the same thermal sights and nightvision then you will have
the advantage of surprise and a carefully thort ought battle plan

338 or 50 and thermal sights that nice

hope it never comes to that

[Rebel1972]

As someone said in an earlier post,It depends on the threshold .Some people can stand a lot more pain than others .What I mean is ,some show pure apathy toward the fact that the way they vote can affect the future of our rights.For instance I worked with a guy that would not vote republican ,period.When confronted he would say "they'll never take guns in our lifetime".I am afraid that the taking of gun has already started and it will be a slow steady process until they are gone . Our forefathers probably would have already thrown off the yoke of this government and either had another revolution or moved on.
Sorry if this seems a bit muddled I have the feelings in my heart but I can't translate them into words on a page . Gubmunt ejicashun I reckin'

[Bruce Scott]

their domestic name for it was the Social Democratic Party of Germany (Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands).

I thought they were called the National Socialist Workers Party, where we got NAZI from?

Some time within the next 100 years or less no private citizen in this country will own a firearm.

It was called the Social Dem Party within Germany - Sozi for short. Nazi developed into wider usage outside the country.

The term Nazi is derived from the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, the official German language name of the National Socialist German Workers Party (commonly known in English as the Nazi Party). Party members rarely referred to themselves as Nazis, and instead used the official term, Nationalsozialisten (National Socialists). The word mirrors the term Sozi, a common and slightly derogatory term for the Social Democratic Party of Germany (Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands).