Loose Dogs

[Wes]

With the subdivisions popping up around the ranch country here we've had more and more run ins with dogs and dog owners the last few years. This summer while irrigating I had 4 different dogs down in my place running cattle around. I followed them home and had some discussion about it with the owners to the effect that if they can't keep them in line they'll wind up dead. One big black and white mutt and a blue heeler actually tried to run me off my headgate one day.
Yesterday I went to the same field to chop waterholes for some cattle and found the cows in the next pasture with a bunch of tore down fence and two dogs chasing them. I made a sharp whistle and the smaller dog stopped...it was his last mistake. When I knocked him down the big black and white dog stopped to look and made his last mistake.
Rifle M99 Savage in 300 Savage. Load 44 grains of RL15 over a 150 grain Sierra spitzer. I paced it off from the corner post where I was resting to dog #1 was 192 long steps, dog #2 was 18 paces further. Pretty good shooting for an old "inaccurate" levergun.

[Kansas Ed]

Years ago, Dad had 3 dogs killing sheep. He stepped out the basement door and hit the German Shepard in the head with the 30-30 at about 70 yards, the little dog took off running and he bowled him over at 100+ on a dead run. He missed the 3rd dog. He drug the dogs to the burn pile, and called the owner. Told him he had 3 dead 90lb lambs and he needed to come pick up the collars and bring a check. We thought all hell was going to break loose when this big dude shows up with 2 other buddies at the front driveway. But they all piled out, went and looked at the dogs, then the big dude says, two dogs were mine, but the 3rd wasn't. I figure I owe you for 2/3rds the damage, and wrote out a check. My brother and I thought we were going to have to get ourselves beat senseless to protect our dad when those guys piled out of the car, but as luck would have it the guy was more aggreeable than his massive size suggested.

Ed

[O.S.O.K.]

Killing dogs isn't fun but either is fixing fence. And you did warn the owners which is more than I would do...

[Wes]

I also have to add that my elderly neighbor lost 3 lambs and a ewe right before he shipped his lambs. He wasn't a good enough shot to get that big black and white ***. Have also seen these and other dogs running deer.
A few years ago a dogowner showed up on my doorstep all fired up about the dog I'd shot. I just waited for his ire to go down and asked him if he wanted to come in and talk about the livestock losses he owed me. He forgot about trying to whip my *** and sueing me, etc. Finally decided to just walk away. He was back later with a deputy sheriff. We talked about what had happened and I took them to the carcass which was laying right where I'd shot it. The cop looked at the man and told him he'd better keep better track of his dogs, if their whole body is on my side of the fence, I can lay them low.
There are many dogs who just travel through and do no harm. If they don't bother me, I don't bother them.
It used to bother me to shoot dogs, until I had to go and shoot a bunch of sheep with their guts ripped out, hide ripped off, eyes chewed out, dragging their guts through the sagebrush, etc. Not any more.

[AJMD429]

It used to bother me to shoot dogs, until I had to go and shoot a bunch of sheep with their guts ripped out, hide ripped off, eyes chewed out, dragging their guts through the sagebrush, etc. Not any more.

Same here.

The only kind of 'loose dogs' I actually like are the pairs of loose puppies you sometimes see at the beach...

[jeepnik]

It's been almot twenty years, but long ago, a buddy invited me up to the central valley in California. He told me we were going to shoot feral dogs. I thought he just wanted an excuse to get away from the house for a couple of days and decompress. So silly me, I brought a shotgun and didn't really pack for the task at hand.

When I got up to his place, I found out he was serious. No I had heard of the problems felrals could cause, but wasn't prepared for the reality. We drove out to a ranch where John bird hunted. He had met the rancher when the the later was in the hospital where John worked. They'd become good friends, and bird hunted together regularly.

Well, finding out that we really were going to shoot dogs, I realized I wasn't proberly armed. Fortunately John had an extra bolt gun. It was a Winchester 70, in 06. But it was a right handed gun so I spent a couple of days reaching over to work the bolt. Shades of my first Remington.

In the end, we acounted for seven feral dogs. The rancher was happy, and I learned something.

Wes, you did good. Folks that don't raise livestock, have no idea the expense that feral, or even domesticated but allowed to roam dogs can do.

[firefuzz]

I don't have any livestock anymore but that's the way we always handled dogs, anyone's dog including our own, harrassing anyone's livestock. I couldn't count the dogs I've killed over the years, two of my own. LOL, I saw Dad get so mad at two one time he drove thru the fence to run over them, one of the few times he didn't have a gun handy. He'd have beat me black and blue if I'd have done that.

About 2 months ago I had to go to TX to help my cuz with a dog problem. Six days and thirty-two dogs later we couldn't find anymore. Fourteen head of dead stock and about twenty that needed a vet.

Rob

[Malamute]

Interesting this comes up now, I was going to work up some 110 gr 30-30, and 30-06 loads this afternoon.

There's been several dogs in the area running deer, antelope, calves and horses, and a couple people have found them in their chicken pens, or lost chickens and didnt see what did it. The owners have been talked to, they keep them in for a few days, then they are out again. At first, everyone was being nice about it, as the stories of how much they had been doing this hadn't circulated yet.

Sad part, it isnt always so much a dog problem, as a people problem. The dogs have to pay the price for their owners stubborness or stupidity, or lack of training for their dogs.

[adirondakjack]

And they wonder why here in the NE we've got almost universal leash laws. Back in the day, when livestock or kids on bicycles weren't safe for the nasty dogs in lots of places, the rule was dogs harassing deer or livestock were to be considered pests and could be shot. The REAL issue is the lack of personal responsibility of dog owners. My dog WOULD run deer if I let him. $20 worth of cable in the back yard is the answer.

[Thunder50]

Had friends that farmed. Don't remember the number of cows with ears chewed off or dead newborn calves, not to mention horses run thru a barbed wire fence. They had sherriffs called on them, and showed the spot of blood in the pasture and hair from the dog that the homeowner claimed was on his porch when shot.
30cal. Speer 130gr HP over 51.5gr imr 4895 took care of it quick.

Funny nobody claimed the dogs when they were looking to get paid for their dead livestock.

[Hobie]

One of the first stories I remember hearing about my father's grandfather was that he'd shot his own dog for chasing a neighbor's buggy. It was always told as a lesson to be learned.

[AJMD429]

Back in the day, when livestock or kids on bicycles weren't safe for the nasty dogs in lots of places, the rule was dogs harassing deer or livestock were to be considered pests and could be shot.

The 5.75 Velo-Dog was designed just for such problems...(2nd pic with NAA Mini)



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velo-dog

[kimwcook]

Any, any dog(s) found running animals needs dropped right there. We have a huge problem in the county with people, for what ever reason, not wanting their dogs anymore and they take them out into the county and dump'em. The dogs in that situation can't help it, they're just trying to survive. It's the people that need a lesson.

[Pisgah]

This county has a very strongly-worded leash law This is good and bad. The bad part is that it is so severe that it is rarely enforced. The good part is that if your surburban neighbor complains to the Sheriff that you have killed his cattle-killing, child-biting, garbage-rooting "pet", the Sheriff tells him to go pound sand.

[Andrew]

I killed a dog once in Dad's backyard cause it was running around the neighborhood looking for trouble. He found it.

I have a good friend that had to shoot his dog cause when they moved to the new house the neighbor's dog showed him how much fun running cattle was.

My uncle has had a farm for years and has shot probably countless dogs. Mostly the owners faults through abandonment and irresponsibility.

[Rusty]

You're right it's never fun but it often has to be done. Now days the best thing to do is just S,S, S, around here. there's too many bleedin hearts around. they make you out as the villain for shooting poor little Fluffy.

I don't have cows any more, just a flock of back yard chickens I tend and the chickens aren't considered livestock so their protection doesn't fall under the same laws. Too bad.

[JerryB]

It is always a shame to have to kill a dog when the owner is at fault, but sometimes it has to be done. The 30-30 150 gr Silvertip and 32-20 with an 85 gr XTP does an excellent job.

[Ysabel Kid]

The only kind of 'loose dogs' I actually like are the pairs of loose puppies you sometimes see at the beach...

Where? Where? Ouch, now my neck hurts from snapping around!

As suburbia invades rural areas, usually so does all the various annoying laws that come with it. When I lived in Charlotte they had a a leash law. IIRC, a homeowner had to have 5 acres to let their dog(s) run without a leash or being fenced in, and they could still get in trouble if the dog(s) wandered off their land and caused any trouble. The homeowners' need to understand that they are responsible for their pets - period. As far as I'm concerned, you didn't kill the dogs - their stupid owners did.

[geobru]

I've had two experiences as a dog owner that necessitated me to eliminate my own dogs. One time we had a stray that wandered in and the kids liked him, so we kept him. The neighbor up the hill came down to the house one day and said we had a problem. My dog took to going on his porch and drug off his barn boots and various shoes. I told him we didn't have a problem anymore, and the dog disappeared one day.

The other one was a registered golden retriever that I had. Something went wrong in his head and he went wild on us. I got a call from a neighbor up the road who asked if I had a retriever. When I said yes, there was a long silence on the phone, and he said my dog was with a pack of dogs in their sheep pasture chasing their stock. A couple years before, a dog had killed their kids 4-H project. I told him he wouldn't see him up there again. I tied that dog up that day, but it managed to get loose before the next morning. The next day, I heard a dog howling like a wolf down in the bottom below the house. I commented to my wife that I wished someone would take care of that dog. I went outside and found out that it was my dog that was howling. When it saw me, it took off up the hill toward the neighbor's sheep pasture. My son, who was about 8 at the time, called the dog and it came back to him, and we captured it. I went for a walk with the dog after the kids went to school. It seemed that once it got that pack mentality, it separated itself from humans, and was calling to the other members of the pack to go hunt. I figured that it was just a matter of time and it would kill something. That was kind of wierd how that dog behaved and reverted to a feral state. I have no patience for dogs that wander and give the neighbors problems.

[rangerider7]

My uncle lived outside of Austin. He would identify which neighbor's dogs were killing his stock. He would warn them to tie up their dogs at night. If he saw them again he would go to the neighbor's house find the dog, usually under the porch resting, and would shoot it point blank with his 30-06. When the owners came flying out of their house he would ask "Got anything to say or do?" He would turn and leave saying "if you decide to get another dog you best tie him up at night."My uncle played line with "Bulldog Turner" in the old days at Hardin Simmons. He was a man of few words and would not be done wrong.

[DBW]

The only kind of 'loose dogs' I actually like are the pairs of loose puppies you sometimes see at the beach...

Hmmm... I've seen those. Definitely a problem.

[fatoldfool]

When I was growing up we raised sheep. Anyone who ever raised sheep will know that quite often you do the S-S-S. I can remember every dog I killed, so I think that means I didn't like doing it, but it had to be done. Strays from town 5 miles away and coon-hunters from down in the coalfields were our worst problems. Back in 49 or 50 one guy killed a couple of lost coon hounds in his chicken pen. The owners showed up and saw the dead dogs. They came back a few nights later and penned up his team of mules in an abandoned cabin and hamstrung them. Nothing was ever done. Now (thanks to the bear hunters who pack the DNR meetings) WV has a law that since dogs can't read, when they get on your land the hunter has a LEGAL RIGHT to come on your land to get his dogs. And you can NOT legally shoot a stock-killing dog. You have to capture it. Yeah, right....

[El Chivo]

It used to bother me to shoot dogs

it would never bother me to shoot a dog, I've always had a "thing" about them. Cats I see as pets, as personalities, but when I meet someone's dog, I see a killer. Especially the little poodles.

Now, I haven't shot any dogs at all, but if I did, it would be with a feeling of relief.

I realize many here feel that way about cats, but for me it's dogs.

[BigSky56]

I never give warnings on dogs that are wolfing stock your chances are 1 out of 100 to catch them in the act again. Another thing Ive found that unless you are trying to collect damages it doesnt pay to announce that youve dumped dogs to anybody SSS. danny

[Ben_Rumson]

I got a weaned pup from some folks that were giving away from the litter.. That dog had never seen cattle before or ran with other dogs... When he was about a year and a half old he saw about 50 head of cattle in a pasture next to where we were camping... He took off like a bullet after them...We had to drive in there to catch him.. He came to my wife when were close enough for him to hear her... She grew up on a small ranch and well knew the legitimate danger he was in...Needless to say he stayed on his chain the rest of the time we were camped there.

[Sixgun]

We have 14 dogs--all Yorkies--I have an acre fenced off just for them. They come in the house and out as they choose. We keep an eye on them and if anyone came on to my property to hurt them, I would kill the two legged varmints.

But....................as much as we love dogs, I have killed five while deer/crow hunting. All were in the process of chasing deer.

1 dead dog---22-250 Rem. 53 gr. Sierra BRHP 260 yards. Blew a hole in him that a grapefruit would roll through.

3 dead dogs--33 Winchester--200 gr. Hornady 50-75 yards. Bullet in and out with little damage.

1 dead dog--.348 Winchester---25 yards---cut that sucker in half--nasty--he was still alive when I walked up to him to give the coupe-de-grace with a Model 29 'Smith

I did wound one dog. He was the buddy of the first dog I shot at 260 yards. By the time I put the 10X leupold on him, he was running full tilt at 325+. I had to lead him a good 5 feet as I was seeing the splashes in the snow from the bullets that missed him. On the fourth shot, I rolled him but he got back up. I found blood but it must have been a nick as a 53 grainer usually explodes on impact. Had a great time though and that was in the late Seventies

[L_Kilkenny]

Let me first say that I have no problem shooting a dog chasing and damaging livestock. That being said I "could" have a problem leaving it up to the general population. I have too little faith in the common sense of most people anymore (look at our president). Of the neighbors I have, 2 have poor judgement in about everything they do. I also have had dealings with other land owners that I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw them. They get a wild hair up their rear and watch the sparks fly.

I've worked long and hard to get my dogs to stay home and they do a good job of it. But I'll guarantee that if they start running a coon, coyote or fox here at home(which I want them to do) they won't quit anytime soon and have no idea of property lines. I can dump them right in a cattle yard and they'll ignore livestock. But I fear some people won't know the difference and frankly won't care.

That being said there was a couple German Shepard farm dogs that were running anything with-in 5 miles of home 10 or 12 years ago. The owner knew it and did nothing. I was told by 2 different land owners that if I saw them on their land (which was 3-4 miles away) I was to drop em and I would have. I never saw them again but talked to the owner of the dogs last year and he knows they were shot and by who.

In other words their is a fine line between plunkin any dog you see and shooting problem dogs. Use good judgement and shoot straight.

LK

[firefuzz]

The only kind of 'loose dogs' I actually like are the pairs of loose puppies you sometimes see at the beach...

Hmmm... I've seen those. Definitely a problem.

The only problem with those "puppies" is that I live too far away from the beach.

Rob

[firefuzz]

[quote="fatoldfool"] Now (thanks to the bear hunters who pack the DNR meetings) WV has a law that since dogs can't read, when they get on your land the hunter has a LEGAL RIGHT to come on your land to get his dogs. quote]

They better hurry or the dogs won't be found.

Rob

[DBW]

The only kind of 'loose dogs' I actually like are the pairs of loose puppies you sometimes see at the beach...

Hmmm... I've seen those. Definitely a problem.

The only problem with those "puppies" is that I live too far away from the beach.

Rob

AJ might gave pics since he brought them up.

[L_Kilkenny]

Now (thanks to the bear hunters who pack the DNR meetings) WV has a law that since dogs can't read, when they get on your land the hunter has a LEGAL RIGHT to come on your land to get his dogs. quote]

They better hurry or the dogs won't be found.

Rob

It's statements like that that really pee me off. As a long time houndsman I'll tell you flat out thare is no dang reason for me not to be able to go get my dog. Same applies for following game that was wounded on another property. I'll also tell you that shooting a dog for running game is as lame a reason as I've ever heard. The dog ain't hurting a thing and you just want to be a butt and act like you are king of whatever small part of god's green earth you happen to have title too. Some people think that because they have title to an acre of dirt they can control what happens in the whole darn county. We run into this all the time around here where city folk by a small acreage and then get mad when country life happens to continue around em. You don't like it get the laws changed or put up a better fence. You shoot my dog for doing what it's trained for and not hurting a dang thing and you'll be writing me a big fat check. If you're able.

LK

[Malamute]

"....shooting a dog for running game is as lame a reason as I've ever heard. The dog ain't hurting a thing ......"


Not meaning to start an insurection, but the laws in the western states are such that any dog seen running game or livestock can be shot on sight, with no repercussions.

Dogs running, and killing, antelope and deer, and their fawns are a problem.

[Griff]

The only kind of 'loose dogs' I actually like are the pairs of loose puppies you sometimes see at the beach...

Hmmm... I've seen those. Definitely a problem.

The only problem with those "puppies" is that I live too far away from the beach.
Rob

AJ might gave pics since he brought them up.

AJ lives too far from the beach also. He's working strictly from memory here!!!

[Doc Hudson]

I like dogs better than I do most people. And anyone attempting to attack one of my dogs without serious provocation is in severe danger of getting shot. Unfortunately I've had to kill plenty of dogs over the years.

Feral dogs can be a real problem, attacking people as well as livestock and pets. They have to be thinned out from time to time.

In general I agree with L_Kilkenny about shooting dogs running game. i grew up around hunting dogs and would not want to shoot someone's prize hunting dog. Even if they are feral, they are just trying to make a living like the rest of us.

Stock chasers are another story. Chase stock and get shot is a reasonable rule. Just don't shoot on sight without catching the critters in the act.

One thing that really makes me mad is people allowing their dogs to run loose. I'd not more let a dog run loose than I would a four-year-old child. i strongly favor leash laws.

[Wes]

The difference between dogs running deer (illegal in Wyoming) and chasing sheep or cattle is slight in my book. One thing to point out to our eastern friends is that at certain times of year stressing out mule deer, antelope, and elk will result in more winter kill. A lot of the time they need every ounce of fat and energy they have just to live. I have seen them run a herd of deer into a fence where a doe got hung up and the dogs chewed her rear end out while she was alive. They don't have a right to do that on my land no matter what you think.
If a dog is loose and running a herd of deer for miles, it's only a matter of time before they find a herd of sheep or cows guaranteed.
We see hounds come through occasionally, usually lost on a lion hunt. Miniature dogs are off limits to me. If they're not big enough to hurt anything I leave them alone.
Another good example of a dog out of control was about 10 years ago. I was out feeding cows with a team and bobsled. We kept the bulls in a separate pasture until spring and I'd swing by every day with hay and chop water holes in the ice. When I pulled into that field I could see a cloud of steam rising in the air for 20' or more. Getting a better look I could see it was my bulls all sweated up and a couple dogs chasing them in circles in 2-3' of snow and it was around -20 that morning. I tried to run those dogs off with the team and threw sticks at it. He'd just come back right behind me. Finally in desperation I thew my double bit axe at one and it shaved the top of his skull off neat as could be. Blind luck at 15 yards for sure. More than one way to get the job done.

[don Tomás]

If you missed it, JimT had a great article on the subject:

DOGS - The Unfriendly Kind

[fatoldfool]

Whoa, Lkilkenny, you read something in my post that I didn't say. I have never shot a dog just for being on my land or for chasing game, but I sure shot enough for killing sheep, calves and chickens. But By God, the state does not have the right to allow ANYONE on my land without my permission, and I do not believe that law will hold up in court. The problem is NOT some hunters coming onto private land to pick up their dogs, the problem is the people who take advantage of that to hunt on private land and then claim they were just after their dogs. I have title to much more than an acre, and I worked and sweated to pay for it for MY use, not yours just because you have dogs. I grew up hunting with dogs and loved it, but times have changed and their are a lot more people around and a lot less un-inhabited land. There is plenty of state and federally owned land where you can hunt your dogs at night without coming on my property! Can you tell you touched a nerve? And this comment will probably start a word war, but that is not my intention, it seems like most of the dog hunters around here don't own any property, they either rent a hovel or live in a trailer surrounded by dog pens, so they have to be on someone elses land to hunt.

[O.S.O.K.]

I was thinking the same - where did this idea that people were touting shooting dogs just for being on thier property come from? I didn't see anybody suggesting that.

When I had cattle and small kids, I shot dogs that either ran my cattle or growled at my kids - the second being a much more serious offense.

I never bothered telling the owner if I knew who it was either - the carcass was left to the buzzards and was all but gone in a week's time.

But I never shot a dog for just being on my land - and there were plenty that were dropped off by fools that would come up to the house looking for help. They got water and some food and then a trip to the shelter.

Cats on the other hand were fair game - they would come up and fight with our cats (which were fixed and stayed near home) and eat their food, etc. - and I showed them no mercy. People in the area would just put out food and let them breed like rabbits....

[BigSky56]

Wes, Ive run into the same problem with dogs pestering cows it pays to keep aleast a 22 pistol at hand I have enough problems with yotes wolves lions and grizzly & black bears that I dont need somebodies dogs running loose too. Lion dogs with tracking collars havent been a problem cause their not lost very long.
Ive got a suggestion for dog owners treat your dog like your kids or grandkids keep them home or you will loose them. I live with that rule with my cow dogs and I expect others to live by it to. danny

[Poohgyrr]

In town too; over the last twenty years I've seen dogs running loose every week. Quite a few were doing something they shouldn't be and simply needed to be leashed up until their owners or animal control collected them. Not really much of a problem.

But five times I've dealt with dog(s) attacking kids or adults. Things here being the way they are, three of those times the dogs were controlled enough or stopped soon enough for animal control to arrive, collect, and later kill them in a way that was quiet and out of public sight. The other two times I stopped the mad dogs. This last time involved a pack of four dogs at a junior high school, right before classes started; two kids were bit before a Dad beat the dogs off with a classroom chair. Then I arrived and all four charged me. I stopped them and animal control got there as quick as they could (an hour later!) and took over. The school Principal and I both thanked that Dad for what he did, but it was disappointing he didn't get better public recognition and thanks.

A vicious dog is a real danger and no joke. A good dog can be a wonderful part of the family. Kinda like people......

[Sixgun]

I'll also tell you that shooting a dog for running game is as lame a reason as I've ever heard. The dog ain't hurtin a thing

Nothing personal, but I see you don't spend a lot of time in the woods and seeing the results of what dogs do. I have.......many times.

The dogs run the deer until the deer are exhausted, then they hamstring 'em and pull their guts out. After the fun is over, they look for more deer.

This comes natural for wild dogs. I have also seen many other dogs just milling about. Those never caught the bullet. Your hound dogs and my Yorkies are a different kind of dog.

When returned to the wild, dogs, like cats do what comes natural for them. Then I do whats natural. I don't do the three s's though--I just do one s -------------------Sixgun

[Doc Hudson]

By God, the state does not have the right to allow ANYONE on my land without my permission, ...

On that I'm in full agreement!

It is only common courtesy and common sense to find the landowner and ask permission to retrieve dogs or downed game.

On the other hand it is also common courtesy for a landowner to permit a person to round up his dogs or recover a downed deer/elk/whatever.

I've known folks to violate that sense of courtesy on both sides. And i don't think either side has a moral high ground over the other.

If I shot a deer on a neighboring property and it crossed your fence, or if my dogs went haring off over your property line, would you not permit me to recover either dogs or deer, or would you come along to help find the lost critters and see that I remained a good guest?

[Doc Hudson]

Ive got a suggestion for dog owners treat your dog like your kids or grandkids keep them home or you will loose them. I live with that rule with my cow dogs and I expect others to live by it to. danny

We are both preaching the same message here!

Anybody who'd let their dogs run loose probably don't keep close tabs on their kids either.

[L_Kilkenny]

I'll also tell you that shooting a dog for running game is as lame a reason as I've ever heard. The dog ain't hurtin a thing

Nothing personal, but I see you don't spend a lot of time in the woods and seeing the results of what dogs do. I have.......many times.

The dogs run the deer until the deer are exhausted, then they hamstring 'em and pull their guts out. After the fun is over, they look for more deer.

This comes natural for wild dogs. I have also seen many other dogs just milling about. Those never caught the bullet. Your hound dogs and my Yorkies are a different kind of dog.

When returned to the wild, dogs, like cats do what comes natural for them. Then I do whats natural. I don't do the three s's though--I just do one s -------------------Sixgun

You would assume wrong. I'll put my time in the woods right up there with most. When I was talking "running game" I was talking about the game it is suppose to be running like raccoon. There is game and there is "off game" big difference that anyone around hunting dogs knows. The comment was made that the owner of a bear dog, running bear, had better hurry or it would be too late. Fatoldfool wrote

They better hurry or the dogs won't be found.

. Maybe he wasn't talking about bear dogs running bear but that is exactly what he said. Someone shoots my coon dog for running coon will be answering to the sheriff (best case scenario). Like I said, I have no problem with shooting a problem dog but shooting a dog just because it's on your property is lame and illegal in most areas. And for good reason. I responded to EXACTLY what was said.

I have run into land owners that would shoot any dog they saw and have seen the results. I've good reason to be peeved off about someone shooting/stealing/hiding/chasing off hunting dogs that happen upon their property even though they were doing no wrong. I've also good reason to not like small land owners that move from the city and think they can control what happens on every adjacent property.

Read my first post, read fatoldmans post and you'll see where I'm coming from.

LK

[Doc Hudson]

A vicious dog is a real danger and no joke. A good dog can be a wonderful part of the family. Kinda like people......

Amen Brother!!!

I have a very large and loud-mouthed dog. Lots of people ask me if she bites. I generally answer evasively, because she's never bit anyone but I won't admit it to a stranger.

My philosophy is that the dog's job is to bark and intimidate intruders and let me put a magnum bite on them if it becomes necessary.

I've no use for vicious dogs, and have no scruples about shooting a strange dog, or even a known dog, that comes into my yard and growls at me.

[20cows]

I'd go along with that. I can't abide a dog showing aggression toward me on my property.

[44shooter]

I grew up in eastern NC hunting deer with hounds. I have never or heard of hounds chasing livestock while out on the hunt despite pastures being all around. However they are just dogs and it would not surprise me if one decided to chase a cow or kill a chicken. I know they do run deer through pastures. I feel if the dog is harrassing the owner's animals, he has a right to stop it within reason. Shooting a 20 pound beagle for chasing a 1000 pound angus is not reasonable.

As for dogs chasing wild animals on private land, as stated before, dogs can not read signs and have no concept of human property. The animal the dog is chasing does not belong to the landowner. You do not have a right to shoot the dog unless it is obviously a stray.

I have never personally seen or heard a pack of hounds catch a deer. Most escape unharmed while some are shot by the hunters. Although,I have heard of instances of it occurring. If a pack of registered American foxhounds only rarely catch a whitetail deer where they are as thick as the briers they live in, how can your neighbor's yard dog catch a pronghorn. If energy stores are so low that a game animal can't endure a few hours of chase, there are too many animals for the available food anyway.

To sum in all up, I understand that dogs sometimes need to be killed. Killing someone's dogs for harmlessly being dogs, to include running deer, is a good way to lose all your stock and maybe your barn or house. Going into someone's yard and shooting under their porch is a good way to lose everything.

[firefuzz]

They better hurry or the dogs won't be found.

. Maybe he wasn't talking about bear dogs running bear but that is exactly what he said. Someone shoots my coon dog for running coon will be answering to the sheriff (best case scenario). Like I said, I have no problem with shooting a problem dog but shooting a dog just because it's on your property is lame and illegal in most areas. And for good reason. I responded to EXACTLY what was said.

I have run into land owners that would shoot any dog they saw and have seen the results. I've good reason to be peeved off about someone shooting/stealing/hiding/chasing off hunting dogs that happen upon their property even though they were doing no wrong. I've also good reason to not like small land owners that move from the city and think they can control what happens on every adjacent property.

LK

Number one I've had to shoot literally dozens of dogs in my lifetime, not because I wanted to because I had reason to. And I will shoot the next one I see doing what I shot the others for. I've never killed a dog for just crossing my property. We don't have bear in my area, but you or no one else has the right to cross my property without my permission running bear or coon dogs PERIOD. I had two quarter horse mares spooked and run thru a 5-strand barbed wire fence by coon dogs in '78 and the hunters darn sure didn't stick around and offer to pay the $700 vet bill. Dad found their vehicle and waited and they never paid for the bill or the fence. Just because you run game legally with dogs doesn't give you open rights to trespass on anyone's property. You shoot a deer or other game and then it comes on my property, come to the house and say so and I'll help you look for it. Pretty plain and simple.

Any dog going from point A to point B crossing my property to get there has no problems from me, as long as it doesn't disturb livestock or act aggressively towards any of my family. They do, they're dead. Pretty plain and simple too.

And BTW, my family is still living on land, quite abit more than an acre, we've occupied since before Oklahoma became a state. We're not recent imports. And seeing as how I'm liable for anything that happens on it I guess I'm going to control what goes on there. Pretty plain and simple again.

Rob

[fatoldfool]

L_Kilkenny.. You quote me as saying "they better hurry or they won't be found....That is NOT FOUND IN MY POST! and NOWHERE do I say I would shoot a dog just for crossing or being on my property. Back up and READ it all again. I have caught and returned many lost hunting dogs, as some of the hunters/farmers in my area will attest to.

[Hobie]

Every time this subject comes up we see a lot of people get their hair up. Some of it is because they misinterpreted the other fellow's post.

Where I live people have common sense. They know their neighbors dogs. They know what they are doing. They know what a dog can and can't do. They don't shoot dogs willy-nilly. They can tell the difference between a dog that's a lost hunter and a dropped dog. So, they also know when a dog is doing wrong. They know what the cost either way can be. They do what they need to do.

That doesn't seem different from what anyone here has posted.