OT-Why young women hiking alone need to be armed

Jason_W · Post by **Jason_W** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:55 am

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22541845/

Such a shame.

An unarmed human in the woods really is just prey. The predators usually walk on two legs, though.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:07 am

Hiking alone - or in groups

Walking alone - or in groups

Going to the WC - always in groups...

Young women, Old Women, Young & old Men, everybody should carry a gun pretty much all the time.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:26 am

Carry a gun? Why should I carry a gun. I'm not paranoid like these crazy gun freaks. Nothings gonna happen to me, I'm always careful.

Excuse me sir, yes you in the white robe by the big gate ..... where am I? How did I get here?

Joe

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:28 am

Supposedly the guy who killed this girl is connected to the murder of a couple elsewhere, also out hiking. They apparently had a dog (unless I'm confusing the incidents). We had a pair of girls hiking near hear on the Applachian Trail, with dog, who were murdered.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:31 am

You bet. Women who fear for their lives and have a restraining order against an abusive boyfriend/husband ought to be trained and packing too...a scenario which happens much more often. My wife is friends with a woman who helps raise who 2 nephews. Their "father" followed their mom to a Dr.'s office and killed her in the drivers seat, right in front of her two boys, who were strapped in the back. It was a messy scene, one which the boys will never forget. He then offed himself. That has been repeated numerous times here. These women would have all done well to be armed and ready.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:39 am

Having gun doesn't make you armed. Having a gun and being trained, still does not make you armed.

These girls / women need to develop a self protective mind set. And this many cannot do.

Until they are willing to put all previous religious, societal, and pier pressures and brain washing aside and make the conscious and subconscious decision to KILL if necessary they will continue to be victims.

Joe

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:46 am

Sad.

And on the same page there's an article about leathal injecton is too painful. How about A bullet in the back of the head instead?

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:48 am

2ndovc wrote:Sad.

And on the same page there's an article about leathal injecton is too painful. How about A bullet in the back of the head instead?

No, from the front, with their eyes taped open. They need to see it coming.

Joe

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:50 am

RIGHT!

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:08 pm

I find it hard to understand why folks ignore danger and go to places where this sort of thing can happen without carrying the means to protect themselves. Here in the UK we cannot carry weapons for self defense so most folks have no choice.

Jason_W · Post by **Jason_W** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:11 pm

game keeper wrote:I find it hard to understand why folks ignore danger and go to places where this sort of thing can happen without carrying the means to protect themselves. Here in the UK we cannot carry weapons for self defense so most folks have no choice.

Complaicancy. Many in here in US (and I'm sure the prevailing attitude is similar in the UK) have the illusion that the state can protect us from all bad things.

On the one hand, being the victim of a violent crime is statistically low, but that's no reason not to be prepared.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:15 pm

game keeper,

Here in the U.S. there are many parks, and recreation areas inside gun friendly states where you cannot legally carry a weapon for self defense.
Then are states like Illinois where you cannot legally carry a weapon for self defense anywhere outside your home or property. Then there are other states that make it so hard to legally acquire a gun that it's all but impossible.
The qualifying term is "legally". Personally had a potential victim shot the assailant to death and faced the charges and I had been on the jury, I would vote to acquit on all charges.

As I said in my previous comments, many victims are programed to be victims.
"Carry a gun? Why should I carry a gun. I'm not paranoid like these crazy gun freaks. Nothings gonna happen to me, I'm always careful. "

Joe

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:31 pm

J Millar,
Yes I understand many places in the USA have the same bad laws that we have but as you say "The qualiflying term is legally" I would way up the danger of being found by the law alive with an illegal firearm or being found dead without one!

Over here it would mean five years in prison but thats still better than a cold slab!

El Mac · Post by **El Mac** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:32 pm

game keeper wrote:I find it hard to understand why folks ignore danger and go to places where this sort of thing can happen without carrying the means to protect themselves. Here in the UK we cannot carry weapons for self defense so most folks have no choice.

Why do you guys put up with such bull skittle??? Take your country back!

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:57 pm

El Mac,

Personally I would rather take your country back! I know where I can get a Brown Bess!

Iron_Marshal · Post by **Iron_Marshal** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:22 pm

I'm on my way out the door to instruct a womens self defense course to nurses that treat homebound patients. Most of them have been groped by some elderly, but still frisky, males. The danger is that predators learn to pattern the nurses visits and then they have them already trapped in a house. Potentially dangerous situation. I recommend they carry guns but the nursing company does not allow them to carry. At least the agency is allowing me to help out a little bit.

brucew44guns · Post by **brucew44guns** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:24 pm

I think as a father of three 30's something women, these kinds of stories hit me so hard. I can't imagine the horror I would feel if some slimy, deranged, and insane puke bucket of a man molested and killed one of my daughters. This young woman had her whole life ahead of her, and this garbage takes it away. A firing squad with big bore rifles, a massive electrocution, or off with the head, is not only needed, but required in these cases. When in hell is the appropriate justice coming for the victims and families of these kinds of events?

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:33 pm

[an article about leathal injecton is too painful. How about A bullet in the back of the head instead?]

OK by me - There's no pain, on either end !

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:38 pm

game keeper
Levergunner 2.0

Joined: 06 Sep 2007
Posts: 183
Location: England
Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:57 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

El Mac,

Personally I would rather take your country back! I know where I can get a Brown Bess!

Well you all had Brown Bess's the first time they didnt stack up to the long rifles that we had.

DDude · Post by **DDude** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:24 pm

Here in the U.S. there are many parks, and recreation areas inside gun friendly states where you cannot legally carry a weapon for self defense.
Then are states like Illinois where you cannot legally carry a weapon for self defense anywhere outside your home or property. Then there are other states that make it so hard to legally acquire a gun that it's all but impossible.
The qualifying term is "legally". Personally had a potential victim shot the assailant to death and faced the charges and I had been on the jury, I would vote to acquit on all charges.

As much as I admire the fact that the majority of states now have CCW permits, I don't agree with them simply because the 2A already gives us the right to carry without mention of "how", either concealed or open carry. Because it is mentioned in the Constitution then the 10th Amendment doesn't apply to this issue. The states should not be determining this issue as far as I'm concerned. But like so much that is wrong with our nation, it's fubar'd and backasswards. Things the states should take care of (education, health issues, etc.) have been handed over to the federal government to handle which goes contrary to the Constitution. It's so fubar'd.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:46 pm

A few years back, a solider home on leave from Iraq was murdered along with his girlfriend while camping in Ocala National Forest. Shortly after that laws were changed in the state to allow for people camping in state parks to be able to carry a firearm if they have a CCW. Before that you could not even have a gun in your RV while in a state park.

Rusty <><

LeverBob · Post by **LeverBob** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:56 pm

game keeper wrote:El Mac,

Personally I would rather take your country back! I know where I can get a Brown Bess!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Great response Pard, but you don't have to take it back. Just join us & you'll be an "owner" too. All of you sons of liberty in exile are welcome.

Oh! And, don't forget your guns. We need ya'...

LeverBob

rimrock · Post by **rimrock** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:50 pm

I have such a heavy heart for this useless murder. The guy should be staked out over an anthill so the ants and the sun can render justice.

I try to stay alert and be prepared. Texas allows CCW in some but not all places. I always have a knife, my belt, a mechanical pencil for that up close encounter. When I walk to my parked car, I have my keys in my hand with a key between my thumb and and each of my first 2 fingers.

Marlin .35 · Post by **Marlin .35** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:09 pm

This killing is getting to be typical of crime in America. The criminals today are not satisfied raping, robbing, or whatever, they all want to hurt and to kill. We are too soft on criminals todayy. Ol'Sparky needs to be a 24 hour, 7 day a week operation. If I go hiking in the woods, I am always armed. Too many sick people out there today!!!! Art

winter1857 · Post by **winter1857** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:16 pm

That whole situation was just bad bad. It makes me so sad.

There are predators out there and you just never know where they are. You can go for years and years and never encounter anything bad but when you do it comes out of nowhere.

My girlfriend and I hike in National and State Parks up and down the east coast. darn a law. I'll have a surprise for any bastard that tries to jump us on the trail.

It's like the scene at the beginning of "The Shootist" when JB Books is handing over his wallet "Plus a little something extra!".

The bleeding bushwhacker says "You ain't gonna leave me out here are you?" and Duke says "Well, it's obvious that's what you were gonna do to me."

brucew44guns · Post by **brucew44guns** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:56 pm

looks like if this slime pail who killed the young woman were tried by 12 Levergunners, the verdict would be unanimous, "GUILTY AS CHARGED". All we would need is a hangin judge to get-er-done.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:04 am

Irish_Cop wrote:I'm on my way out the door to instruct a womens self defense course to nurses that treat homebound patients. Most of them have been groped by some elderly, but still frisky, males. The danger is that predators learn to pattern the nurses visits and then they have them already trapped in a house. Potentially dangerous situation. I recommend they carry guns but the nursing company does not allow them to carry. At least the agency is allowing me to help out a little bit.

ANY entity which disarms individuals should be held strictly liable for their safety, and I've heard some states are legislating in that area now (anyone else hear of this?). In other words, if you are going to force employees, tenants, customers, or others to be defenseless, and they suffer an assault, you CAN be sued for contributing to their harm.

Personally, I think if a business owner, school administrator, or politician disarms patrons then they should face trial for murder if anyone is harmed; that's what would happen if an apartment owner forbade the possession of fire extinguishers and a fire killed someone...

FALPhil · Post by **FALPhil** » Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:33 pm

game keeper wrote:I find it hard to understand why folks ignore danger and go to places where this sort of thing can happen without carrying the means to protect themselves. Here in the UK we cannot carry weapons for self defense so most folks have no choice.

You have to understand that the park in which the incident started is one of the most popular parks in the state, so there were probably many people about. Furthermore, state parks are "gun free" zones, just like the public transportation systems in the state.

In this particular case, only the kidnapping, not the murder was perpetrated in the park. The woman was kept alive and abused for 3 days, then she was conked on the head and decapitated.

I don't know the details of the kidnapping, but I can see that even if she was armed and had a defensive mindset, the kidnapping could still be pulled off. Kidnapping is not very hard to perform, especially if you have some emotional issue to leverage.

When it comes to violence, a determined foe has the advantage because he decides whether or not, when, and under what circumstances to engage. In this case, numbers would have probably meant safety, but maybe not.

lever-4-life · Post by **lever-4-life** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:30 am

That kind of guy makes me want a rope and an oak

I am in sierras and run into this kind of character about once a month

My girlfriend runs with a dog but I still worry about her. she wants to get a gun, but I dont know if she would use it. I bought her one of those kimber pepper sprays and take some ease in that. She also knows where to kick, scratch, or stab if need be!!

shawn_c992001 · Post by **shawn_c992001** » Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:18 pm

My fiance sells insurance door to door, and I worry about her safety. She has been taught self defense, use of pepper spray, and the Gerber I make her carry in her purse. The company doesn't allow her to carry, but the way I see it the car is her personal property and as far as I'm concerned they don't have any say with what's in it. So her carry gun is in the door panel with a spare magazine.

cvc · Post by **cvc** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 4:12 am

This discussion cause's me to ask this question:

I want to buy my daughter a weapon but I cannot decide which would be better, a revolver or a semi-auto pistol?
I use a semi-auto myself but I wonder if a revolver would suit a women better as it is more simple to operate in a stressful self defense situation.

I know all the facts about being aware of your surroundings, mindset and training, etc.

What do your wifeâ€™s, girlfriends and daughters carry?

Idahoser · Post by **Idahoser** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:33 am

Mitch1352 · Post by **Mitch1352** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:30 pm

I work the precinct where he was arrested. My watch commander and a sergeant pal of mine made the arrest. My LT said that he seemed not to want to comply, but became quite docile when confronted by a loaded gun and a stout heart. The van he was in was a mess. He was there cleaning it out after the murder.
The 2 parks that are nearby have fairly regular patrons. We have had calls on hm there in the past, but nothing that we could take him in for. Kinda makes me wonder if we had pushed hard enough then we might have saved some lives now.

FALPhil · Post by **FALPhil** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:56 am

FALPhil wrote:Furthermore, state parks are "gun free" zones, just like the public transportation systems in the state.

Good news: this problem was addressed yesterday in the state legislature with the introduction of "Meredith's Law". Turns out that Meredith possessed a CCW, but intentionally left her gun at home when she visited the park because she was a law-abiding citizen.

Rapid passage is expected.

OT-Why young women hiking alone need to be armed

OT-Why young women hiking alone need to be armed

girl found in the wilderness

jury of 12