Who needs the .44's anyway?

86er · Post by **86er** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:43 am

Why isn't the .44 caliber obsolete already? Don't people know you can get the same weight bullet as fast or faster, and with less pressure in the 45 Colt? The 44 Magnum is a big boomer with little to show for all that noise and the 44 Special is just too slow to get any of the mainstream bullets to expand reliably. The 45 Colt is a sister cartridge to the 45 Cowboy, 454 Cassull and 460 S&W. All of these will out-perform any of the 44's including the 460 rubbing elbows with the 444 Marlin. The difference being the 444 usually has to shoot those pistol bullets that don't work too good at fast speed. Oh and the 45 Colt can be had in vintage and modern single actions, concealed carry guns like the Taurus 450, and Rossi (2" bbl-5 Shots) all the way up to the S&W X-Frame 6 shot. The only concealable 44 is the hard-to-get-to-work-properly Charter Arms Bulldog. In a lever rifle the 45 Colt really shines by pushing a heavy bullet, even 335 grain and if the rifle can handle a little length, up to a 400 gr bullet. The 44 only wishes it could exceed 330 grains without issues and then only with a pile of pressure. The 45 Colt can be used with such obscurities as wax bullets that are primer powered for indoor range shooting, lead cowboy loads and on up to premium bullets, even the Punch solid for the largest game. There are conversion sleeves available to shoot .22 rimfire in your 45 Colt family pistol but I haven't seen such a useful item for the .44's. So who needs the .44 calibers anyway.

348WCF · Post by **348WCF** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:54 am

Oh boy, this should be interesting!

Pathfinder09 · Post by **Pathfinder09** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:08 am

Well I diagree. The .45 colt has been around along time, and if it was the end all cartridge there would not have been a need for anything else. I will agree the that .45 colt has great potential, but you must reload to get there. Elmer Keith was a fan of the .45 colt but he pushed for the "improved"

.44 mag.

Personnaly I like the .44 mag. High powered ammo is available off the shelf and and great to reload. Bottom line it gets the job done! The .44 mag is about all the recoil I want in a handgun, and I can get back on target fast for the second shot. When the .45 colt is redesigned like the .45 Cassull ,and the .460, recoil is unmanageable in my view.

The .300 Remington Mag. is a great round so why would anyone want anything else. But....
the .30-06 is still around and I'll stick with it.

Just my $.02

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:19 am

44 Special is the perfect round for it's power level. Might want to read Skeeter. 44 Mag, yes power off the shelf and you don't have to be concerned about blowing anything up if you get the loads mixed up. 45 Colt - moderate power in factory which can be good and power if you reload. I have all three and think they have their place. And why aren't the 44s gone - cause lots of people buy them. Not many people in that crowd are needing the 44 mag+ level of power in a handgun.

2X22 · Post by **2X22** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:21 am

Hmm. Who needs the .44? Well, my elk count is at 19 bull elk taken with .44's in both rifle and pistol versions, but mostly pistols, with jacketed and cast bullet from 240grs to 330grs. I've taken a boxcar (or more) full of bucks with .44's. That doesn't include all the small game I've taken with a .44. I've fed myself on the trail for weeks at a time with the .44.

Who needs the .44's? ME! You know what 2x22 equals, don't you?

A better question would be, with the introduction of all the .50's out there, who needs the .45?

2x22

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:23 am

Like PAthfinder said, for people who dont reload, high power .44 Mag loads are commonly available and high power .45 loads are not. (except for Buffalo Bore at 80$ a box

)

This is the only advantage i can visualize, but .44's will never go the way of the super short magnums. They will be with us forever.

I reload for more cartridges than i can keep up with already. I have an 1894 Marlin, but i dont re-load .44's and dont really plan to if i can help it --- i dont shoot it much and i can get great ammo for it off the shelf

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:24 am

I like the .44s (actually .429-.430s) AND the .45s. I think the story of how each came about is fascinating. Short (perhaps oversimplified) story is that both were developed from the cap-n-ball revolvers with their .45 bores but the .44s (like the American/Russian/Special/Magnum) developed from the conversion cases as ammunition developed and the .45s were the result of working with the barrels/bores. Now we have something to kvetch about...

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:28 am

Hey Joe, first you slam the 30WCF, now the .44s ..... things must be slow in Texas, huh? How about this, instead of stirring up old conflicts go to Hawaii, look up Ganjiro and go spear fishing with him.
Then write us a good report. That would be a lot more interesting than these kinds of threads.

Joe

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:29 am

[ NEVER MISS THE OPPORTUNITY TO KEEP YORE BIG MOUTH SHUT, MURBOSKE..]

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:38 am

If ya reload, ya don't need a .44 I sold my .44 special revolver and haven't shot my .44 Marlin in several years.

If stuck with big name factory fodder, .44 rules. It was then and is now a concession to the stupidity of folks who might blow their old guns up if they put hot .45s in em. Instead of making new strong guns for hotrodded .45s, which was certainly possible, as Ruger showed em, they made a whole new class of guns.....

We don't seem to have that trouble with .45-70, three levels of guns and loads......

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:51 am

Terry Murbach wrote:[ NEVER MISS THE OPPORTUNITY TO KEEP YORE BIG MOUTH SHUT, MURBOSKE..]

Should I learn something from your self-control?

Yeah, I had to comment.

I think I've pretty much got it right, what we see today is the result to this point of two different evolutions of the same guns...

BTW, Joe, I like your recent posts. They've certainly stirred the pot!

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:53 am

Tonque in cheek

Or trollin

milton · Post by **milton** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:08 am

Stirring up the troops again ?

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:38 am

NEED? not me. LIKE? very definately. My colt in .44 special is ..... well ...... SPECIAL. Like has been said, perfect for its use. The .45 colt certainly has its merits. I don't own one anymore, but it certainly has its merits. Off the shelf ammo for the .44 has the .45colt beat all the way to tomorrow. For me, I skip both for serious work and go from .357 to 45-70. that way, i can avoid all the internal conflict this question begs.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:39 am

oh really?

my redhawk load is a 405g hard cast bullet at 947 fps that recoils about like a 44 spcl and penetrates like a 45/70/405...

where's the .45 colt that duplicates that load, mmmmm mm mm

;) Grizz

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:45 am

We have a lot of people in influential places that are convinced we don't need any firearm, no matter what is.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:53 am

Dusty old 45s, like dusty old Professional Hunters, should just stick to mendin' fence and let the young, whippersnapper .44s do the hard work

(Pay no attention to that .45 on my page

)

bogus bill · Post by **bogus bill** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:07 am

You are techinaly right, yet you didnt point out the timeline and guns available. You could not safely hop up the colt single action army in 45 colt to the level of a handloaded .44 special. The thinnest of the clyinder walls were the problem. Then Ruger came out with the blackhawk that was built heavier than the colt. Of course in .44 mag first and much later made it available in .45 colt. Yes, that gun, had it come out 1st in .45 colt instead of .44 mag, would have made your argument more valid. Remember the story why and how ruger came out with the mag beating S&W to the punch was someone found fired .44 mag cases at the dump that smith had been experimenting with and they got to Bill Ruger. Linbaugh likes the .45 colt in the S&W 25-5 for your same reasons, and I bet you got your argument from him. Yet, I also belive I read him also somewhere saying something about the combo not really being better than .44 mag, just that with his non factory available loads he had as good sucess and enjoyed shooting and hunting with the gun probley more as a feat of showing it could be done. Remember, you cant buy his load made as factory, however I concede the same is true with hot .44 special.
I love the lighter weight .44 specials in S&W and colt SAAs. In smith it is due to the "pencil" barrel. Yes, later they did come out with the pencil barrel mountain guns, but that was after I got my 4 S&W .44 specials and my two colt single actions also in .44 special. I do also own a 25-5 (due to lingaugh articles), and a colt SAA in .45 colt. I am NOT going to load up that colt in .45 as hot as my .44 special loads.
You are right in much of what you say, however, it does take in account my "sweetheart" lighter weight guns. Its not just about the caliber or power of it, but as much as the guns that we like packing for the calibers available.

dr walker · Post by **dr walker** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:39 am

I need the 44's. I dont own any 45's.

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:45 am

ANYONE THAT DOES NOT LIKE THEIR 44....
PLEASE SEND THEM TO ME!

BrianSH · Post by **BrianSH** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:51 am

Hey Rickey,
Sounds like someone's gotten into the Linebaugh papers. Kinda like when you're 11 or 12 and its the first time you ever saw a playboy. Whoo boy!

Next thing you know he'll sneakin' a whiff or two of 296 when he thinks no-ones lookin', hangin' up his levers, and ordering a 5-shot Bisley.

Walkin' around with soot on his face, only its not soot, its the un-burned 296 granules that blew back cuz' he's not running 'nuff pressure.

Fireballs big 'nuff to make the devil hizzelf stand up and take notice.

Recoil pain like catchin' a line drive without a glove.

OH YEAH!

-Brian

P.S. Sweat dries, Blood clots, Chics dig scars.

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:27 pm

RIHMFIRE wrote:ANYONE THAT DOES NOT LIKE THEIR 44....
PLEASE SEND THEM TO ME!

I'm with Rihmfire...

Except I'll just take the reloading components. Got plenty of the guns to shoot them in.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:43 pm

3 thoughts come immediately to mind, 2 of which are well expressed in pictures!
1 - It ain't heresy till it's your ox to be sacrificed!

2 -

3 -

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:49 pm

Never mind what I said before, this one's turning out to be a hoot!

Joe

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:10 pm

Heck, I don't need a .44. I don't even want one. I go straight from a .357M Ruger to rifles and shotguns! Why even mess with anything in between?

LOL

LK

RKrodle · Post by **RKrodle** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:06 pm

BrianSH wrote:Hey Rickey,
Sounds like someone's gotten into the Linebaugh papers. Kinda like when you're 11 or 12 and its the first time you ever saw a playboy. Whoo boy!

Next thing you know he'll sneakin' a whiff or two of 296 when he thinks no-ones lookin', hangin' up his levers, and ordering a 5-shot Bisley.

Walkin' around with soot on his face, only its not soot, its the un-burned 296 granules that blew back cuz' he's not running 'nuff pressure.

Fireballs big 'nuff to make the devil hizzelf stand up and take notice.

Recoil pain like catchin' a line drive without a glove.

OH YEAH!

-Brian

P.S. Sweat dries, Blood clots, Chics dig scars.

I saying out of this, I've never owned a 44 anything. But you know........ I have a few hundred rounds of 44 mag brass laying around that need a gun to be shot out of.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:31 pm

Perhaps you should use the old French and Dutch proverb for your "Signature" -

"The more you stir it, the more it stinks."

However, I agree with you. I've had a .44 Magnum Taurus for 6 years, and it hasn't bagged any game at all!

Idiot · Post by **Idiot** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:58 pm

I've got a couple 44 Magnums and 45 Colts just to avoid these types of arguments. When I'm pushing poop with the gray stubble guys I tout the 45 Colt and all its virtues and superiority's. When hanging with the not as gray bunch I hang my hat on the 44 Magnums proven record. And when I go hunting I grab whatever I've got ammo for, because the dirty little secret is this; if you hit it right with the right bullet it's going to die just as dead with either load. Eeny meany miney mo...

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:13 pm

Idiot wrote:I've got a couple 44 Magnums and 45 Colts just to avoid these types of arguments. When I'm pushing poop with the gray stubble guys I tout the 45 Colt and all its virtues and superiority's. When hanging with the not as gray bunch I hang my hat on the 44 Magnums proven record. And when I go hunting I grab whatever I've got ammo for, because the dirty little secret is this; if you hit it right with the right bullet it's going to die just as dead with either load. Eeny meany miney mo...

Shhhh... you'll quelch the argument with common sense - not allowed here!

Bullard4075 · Post by **Bullard4075** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:19 pm

Gosh I love this place.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:11 pm

Idiot wrote:I've got a couple 44 Magnums and 45 Colts just to avoid these types of arguments. When I'm pushing poop with the gray stubble guys I tout the 45 Colt and all its virtues and superiority's. When hanging with the not as gray bunch I hang my hat on the 44 Magnums proven record. And when I go hunting I grab whatever I've got ammo for, because the dirty little secret is this; if you hit it right with the right bullet it's going to die just as dead with either load. Eeny meany miney mo...

That's the best summary of the .44/.45 Colt and the .444/.45-70 debates (...and the .308/.30-06, .243 Win/6mm Rem, 7mm RemMag/300 WinMag...) I've heard in along time!

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:55 pm

Joe, you little stinker. Stirring the pot like that. You should be ashamed.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:04 pm

I think the point has been well-proved that the .45 Colt's potential was not limited by the cartridge or its design, but by the older guns in which it was chambered.

rafter-7 · Post by **rafter-7** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:48 pm

Who needs the .44's anyway?

My thoughts exactly, and after the last round on the 30/30 I'm not going to say anymore.

BTW 86'er I LIKE YOUR STYLE!!!!

^

7

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:26 pm

I think someone just logged into 86er's computer under his user ID and lobbed a grenade. Just wait until 86er checks the forum and sees what someone posted under his user ID!

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:29 pm

Troublemaker!

The .44 is one of the most accurate centerfire revolver cartridges around (between the .44 Special and .44 Magnum). Though in measurement it is not quite the same (being .429" nominally) it gives a kind of continum from the venerable .44 cap and ball revolvers (despite their nominal .454" bore). And, they are just a ton of fun to shoot!

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:02 pm

RIHMFIRE wrote:ANYONE THAT DOES NOT LIKE THEIR 44....
PLEASE SEND THEM TO ME!

Why do you find it necessary to post in all caps these days? Yes, Terry Murbach does it but then he's Terry. You're not. So what's the deal? Just curious.

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:47 pm

Ysabel Kid wrote:Troublemaker!

The .44 is one of the most accurate centerfire revolver cartridges around (between the .44 Special and .44 Magnum). Though in measurement it is not quite the same (being .429" nominally) it gives a kind of continum from the venerable .44 cap and ball revolvers (despite their nominal .454" bore). And, they are just a ton of fun to shoot!

Sorry, but converted .44 C&B guns are (rimshot please) fohtee fives

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:47 pm

Terry Murbach wrote:[ NEVER MISS THE OPPORTUNITY TO KEEP YORE BIG MOUTH SHUT, MURBOSKE..]

+1234

mmhhmhhhmhhmmm

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:56 pm

.44 and the .45 (I need em both/I love em both)

With that said, I am getting off this one.

Hank Dodge · Post by **Hank Dodge** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:54 pm

I DO!!!!

The .44 is a GREAT round in both handgun and rifle. I can't think of a more versatile, accurate, and reliable round than that of the ol' fourty-four!! If I was allowed only one gun....that's the caliber I'd chose.

Maybe I read too much Skeeter Skelton and Elmer Keith when I was a kid..........

piller · Post by **piller** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:15 am

Sounds like someone is wanting to know if we can back up our likes/dislikes with reasons. Joe, you have a .44 Special. If you really want to give it away, I'll take it.

KentuckyLevrgunr · Post by **KentuckyLevrgunr** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:41 am

Why do we need the Silverado 1500 and the F-150? So the Chevy guys can talk bad about the F-150 and the Ford guys can talk bad about the Silverado. Sure, there was more of a need for the .44 Mag in the mid 50's than there is now, but since we have both, we can choose sides and have pointless arguments on how and why one of two very similar cartridges is better than the other. That's why we have the .44 Magnum, forget all the "Elmer Keith" stuff.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:00 am

adirondakjack wrote:
Ysabel Kid wrote:Troublemaker!

The .44 is one of the most accurate centerfire revolver cartridges around (between the .44 Special and .44 Magnum). Though in measurement it is not quite the same (being .429" nominally) it gives a kind of continum from the venerable .44 cap and ball revolvers (despite their nominal .454" bore). And, they are just a ton of fun to shoot!

Sorry, but converted .44 C&B guns are (rimshot please) fohtee fives

Not the conversions. Just the "evolutionary path" from the .44 C&B (yes, as noted, really a ".45") to the modern centerfire .44 loadings (yes, as noted, really .43's). Sense of history kind of thing. Part of why many gunners - especially levergunners - love firearms!

wm · Post by wm » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:10 am

I could get by very nicely with my 45LCs and my 41 mag but I am grateful that I don't.

I always thought this conversation/arguement/discussion was silly.......it was like saying who needs blondes when you have redheads and brunettes.

Wm

L_Kilkenny · Post by **L_Kilkenny** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:15 am

wm wrote:I could get by very nicely with my 45LCs and my 41 mag but I am grateful that I don't.

I always thought this conversation/arguement/discussion was silly.......it was like saying who needs blondes when you have redheads and brunettes.

Wm

Of coarse it's silly. After a day of work, dealing with the wife and dealing with 3 daughters (2 teenagers) I need silly. Bring it on!!

LK

gimdandy · Post by **gimdandy** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:59 am

Should be MANDATORY : ALL 44's BE RE-CHAMBERED TO SOMETHING USEFUL !!!!!

Hank Dodge · Post by **Hank Dodge** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:18 am

gimdandy wrote:Should be MANDATORY : ALL 44's BE RE-CHAMBERED TO SOMETHING USEFUL !!!!!

OK, then.....Bush down them cylinders and line the barrel....everyone needs a good .22!!!!

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:54 pm

Speaking personally, I own 1 45 colt handgun and 10 44 magnum handguns, 1 44 special and 1 marlin 1894 in 44 magnum.
As far as I am concerned, the choice is easily made. Want my 45 colt ---- trade me a nice 44 magnum!

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:25 pm

Ysabel Kid wrote:
adirondakjack wrote:
Ysabel Kid wrote:Troublemaker!

The .44 is one of the most accurate centerfire revolver cartridges around (between the .44 Special and .44 Magnum). Though in measurement it is not quite the same (being .429" nominally) it gives a kind of continum from the venerable .44 cap and ball revolvers (despite their nominal .454" bore). And, they are just a ton of fun to shoot!

Sorry, but converted .44 C&B guns are (rimshot please) fohtee fives
Not the conversions. Just the "evolutionary path" from the .44 C&B (yes, as noted, really a ".45") to the modern centerfire .44 loadings (yes, as noted, really .43's). Sense of history kind of thing. Part of why many gunners - especially levergunners - love firearms!

OY Vey! And Bourbon is Scotch because they are both Whiskey and the tradition came from Britain? Yikes, the OBVIOUS logic......