OT - 308 Win. vs 308 National Match

[deerwhacker444]

Is there a difference? I'm looking at reloading dies on Midway and they're sold out of the regular 308 Win dies I want but have 308 Win National Match in stock.

What's the difference? Are the cartridge dimensions different? Is it like a 308 Win AI or are the dies just more precise/accurate.?

[madman4570]

308"National Match" dies are made specificly to size the cases a little smaller for use in a M-14/M1-A rifles.

[deerwhacker444]

Ahhh,...so they're like "small base" dies? I have a set of small base dies in .300 Savage for a 760 pump I have. Same idea.?

[AJMD429]

That's weird - I'd think the "match" dies wouldn't size smaller - I would have assumed they were neck-size or some intermediate minimal-sizing that would actually work in semiautos with 'match' chambers...

[madman4570]

The Small Base Die set(N.M. Set) is intended for use for ammunition to be used in auto, semi-auto, and lever action rifles so that the loaded round chambers and extracts easily. The Small Base Sizer Die sizes the case from the shoulder to the head of the case a couple of thousandths smaller than a Full Length Sizer Die. In certain calibers it also sets the shoulder of the case back a thousandth or two more than the Full Length Sizer Die. The Full Length Die Set or Neck Die Set is not normally recommended for ammo to be used in auto, semi-auto, or lever action rifles. The Full Length Die set is recommended for ammunition used in bolt action rifles, particularly for ammunition to be used for hunting. The Neck Die Set can also be used to produce ammunition for use in bolt action rifles. The Neck Sizer Die sizes only the neck of the case so it will hold the bullet firmly. It does not size the body of the case nor does it set the shoulder back. Neck sized cases will usually chamber for three or more firings, depending on the powder charge and chamber dimensions. However, over a period of time, a slight drag will be noticed when the bolt is locked. At this point, cases will need to be full length sized and the shoulder set back so they will chamber and extract easily. "

[madman4570]

deerwhacker444,
That N.M. terminology somtimes can get confusing! Lets think of it as being called Small Base Dies(sized to very minimum specs/case body and shoulder for improved feeding in your Semi autos) if you are reloading for a bolt action you dont want these. Now there is also COMPETITION Dies(Max concentricity at Die neck and body)the sealer die can be adjusted in .001" increments.The bullets get inserted through a side window!Dont want these either in most cases. If you are shooting a normal Bolt gun you want the normal Die Set(STANDARD)you can get these through Cabelas for like $27.99(group A Item#227 See ya

[41 Redhawk]

The way I read both Midway and Forster's description of Forster NM dies is a regular full length sizing dies coupled with their Benchrest Micrometer bullet seating die.

[madman4570]

41 Redhawk,
Some of the catalogs how they explain it is very deceiving.generally your standard dies will mostly work in most guns most of the time,however when dealing with the very high level of everything the very best for the most demanding events,they up the game a bit.

NM is a confusing choice of words! especially for people that dont compete in Match events shooting National Match Guns.(example a Springfield Armory M1A N.M.(got 1)or Garand N.M.(got 1) or a Colt Match HBAR(got 2)It makes people think its for all the various Comp. guns/events and its not! S/B Small or semi/or lever though standard normally is ok for Lever),standard,Comp)is it!
Dont confuse NM with Comp Bolt!


The National Match dies(small Base) are what they use in National Match M1A firearms etc. for National Match Events etc.Length may indeed be the same but is sized just at the very Min.Specs.to prevent jams during rapid fire events.
The Small Base Sizer Die sizes the case from the shoulder to the head of the case a couple of thousandths smaller than a Full Length Sizer Die. In certain calibers it also sets the shoulder of the case back a thousandth or two more than the Full Length Sizer Die. The Full Length Die Set or Neck Die Set is not normally recommended for ammo to be used in auto, semi-auto, or lever action rifles.
Q. I see a Small Base Die Set listed for my caliber. Do I need these or should I buy a Full Length Die Set or Neck Die Set? How does each set differ?

A. The Small Base Die set is intended for use for ammunition to be used in auto, semi-auto, and lever action rifles so that the loaded round chambers and extracts easily. The Small Base Sizer Die sizes the case from the shoulder to the head of the case a couple of thousandths smaller than a Full Length Sizer Die. In certain calibers it also sets the shoulder of the case back a thousandth or two more than the Full Length Sizer Die. The Full Length Die Set or Neck Die Set is not normally recommended for ammo to be used in auto, semi-auto, or lever action rifles.

Competition Dies (ULTRA PREMIMUM)are what is used in say a Comp. Bolt Action Benchrest Gun for extreme accuracy where every little improvement in accuracy is needed.below is a reloading statement which I double checked with SniperCentral.com though I have known this for decades.


Just an FYI if you go with the Forester dies. Their 308"National Match" dies are made to size the cases a little smaller for use in a M-14/M1-A rifles. I have a set and love them. You can set the die to size down as far as you want, but they will size down a little more than standard dies. I particularly like the way the expander ball pulls through the case neck just below the top stroke. It is much smoother than other dies. The National Match dies are not necessary for a bolt gun.
_________________
NRA Lifer/ 2nd bn. 23 rd Marines (res). 0351 AT/ Assault.

[cpt Dan Blodgett]

Shot out one barrel on an M1A and a whole lot of ammo on another champions choice install douglas NM heavy barrel. Never had a problem with extraction or feeding using Hornady standard new dimension 308 dies, mosty used lake city reg gi or lake city nm brass.

[madman4570]

Dan, ya most guns standard dies will work ok,its just some of those tend to have feed problems.My NM M1A functions fine with standard dies as well,I have a Heavy Barnett barrel(6 groove, 1/10 twist) on mine, but one of the guys NM M1A on our club his does tend to have feed problems and uses the Small Base dies to resolve it.

Really I feel the gun should handle and accept use of standard dies.
Again we are talking a very small difference but in some guns its enough. Good Shooting!