125gr 357 Mag ammo from Leverguns and Revolvers

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:43 pm

There are some threads running here discussing what .357 load to use for which guns for what purpose.
My personal choice is the heavier 158gr + bullets in both.

However I thought I'd tell some stories about what kind of mangling and mayhem the 125gr .357 Magnum loads to.

First you have to understand that all critters are mostly furry bags of water saturated tissue. And that there is a thing called hydraulics
. I know this may not be worded to match any of the ballistically smart guys, but it will reflect what I've seen happen with my own two eyes.

So here goes.
Dan Wesson 4" .357 Magnum, full house 125gr JHP loads. I do not remember if they were factory or hand loads. One day a friend a I were shooting rabbits with our .357s. Every one we hit with this load EXPLODED. Bits and pieces of fur every where. Not enough rabbit to even skin for the pot. We found that even the tough jacks came all unglued when hit center of mass with that load. Yuck ....

Marlin 1894 CS 18.5" barrel. Load: Win .357 Mag case - Win S.P. primer - Hercules 2400, 17.5grs - Remington 125gr SJHP . According to Hercules reloading manuals of that time, this load produced 1,745 fps @ 39,900 CUP out of their test barrels. I don't know what length barrel they used.

When shot out of my 4" S&W Mdl 28 they locked up the extractor and they had to be pounded out. BUT ~ when fired out of my Marlin 1894 the difference was incredible. We had some areas that would flood and leave wet, but solid mud for a long time. We would shoot this load into this mud and it would make an opening crater a foot in diameter. We NEVER found a bullet, not whole or fragmented. The holes in this mud were sometimes two feet deep.

We would also fill aluminum Coke cans with water, set them on top of an Eisenhower dollar coin and shoot them. The cans would explode, the shredded metal going in all directions, the water inside would vaporise, and when found the bottom of the aluminum can would have the imprint of the coin on it. Clearly readable.

Now some may scoff at this, but this load simply produces hydraulic
pressures all out of proportion to it's bullet weight. I suspect that might be one of the various reasons it's so good on two legged varmints.

For a house defense load I would not hesitate to use it. Not from a revolver ( if it will hold it ) or a lever gun.

Just some stories from the past. Hmmmm, I still have some of those bunnie busting loads. Oh gee, now I need a .357 Mag lever gun don't I?

PS: How do you spell hydraulics
? My spell check says that is wrong, but won't spell it for me. It keeps giving me other variations of the word. Thanks .

Joe

old goat · Post by **old goat** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:21 pm

...Joe, try your spell check on hydraulics.

...old goat

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:51 pm

IIRC, the 125gr JHP recorded the highest percentage of one shot kills in that test...... I consider the 158gr JHP and JSP too distructive for small game.......

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:54 pm

Yes, the Rem 125 SJHP +P "trooper" load is the #1 1-shot-stop load bar none.

That said, I still wouldn't use it on anything but 'yotes or 'yokels.

IMO They are strictly, and super effective, varmint loads... number of legs not withstanding.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:31 pm

old goat,
Believe it or not it did not give me that choice. But I'll fix it. Thanks for the spelling.

BlaineG and OI,
I totally agree with you on the destructiveness of the 125gr bullets. I haven't loaded any since that couple hundred I loaded back in 1988.

A varmint load, 'yotes or 'yokels describes it just about right.

Joe

Scott64A · Post by **Scott64A** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:00 pm

I love 125gr JHP out f my gun, but since it's not a rifle, I'll stay out of the HOT loads.

I like my Ruger functioning properly!

Great stories, JMiller!

I can see rabbits exploding from the .357mag...
It's just a treat to shoot either way -lots of power and not as much kick as a 44mag.

Just right.

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:46 pm

I've got but one story about a 125gr JHP, and it's only because I've only gotten one kill with it.

It was a coyote sitting a little past 100yds.

Never took a step, stood there for a second, realized it was shot, and dropped...the exit hole looked about the size of a half dollar.

Funny thing is, it was a Remington 38spcl +p factory load out of my 1894c clocked @ 1310fps.

To me this equates to just around a 357mag out of a 4" revolver.

There's a reason it's been so highly regarded th past few decades... It works, and how!

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:41 am

Good Insight J, I have always been fond of the 125 jhp in my M 19 and I am too ignorant to even catch your mispellings

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:26 pm

horsesoldier03,

Thanks.

Most of my bad spelling is caught by my spell checker. But you gotta get close for it to work. And the way I was spelling hydrolics < this way, the spell checker says it's wrong, but my spelling isn't close enough for it to correct to "hydraulics".

Joe

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:03 pm

J Miller, I believe the term you are looking for is hydrostatic shock. IIRC that's the science that deals with how fluids react when hit.

Of course if I'm thinking, I'm probably working without tools again...

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:06 pm

Yep. That's it. Along with "temporary wound cavity", which, on small critters, turns out to be pretty permenant...

Boom!

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:33 pm

Hydrostatic shock, "temporary wound cavity", are definitely part of what I'm talking about.
But I think hydraulics, the sudden movement of fluid is what creates the above conditions, and that's why I used that term.

I need me another .357 rifle so I can blow up another can. I still have some Eisenhower Dollars.

Joe

Tristan · Post by **Tristan** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:02 pm

Speaking of 125gr. 357 mag loads -

I've been looking into loading some, myself. In my available loading guides, using 2400 as the selected powder, there's quite a variation in load data. One load that stands out, however:

Bullet: 125gr. JSP
Primer: Fed. 200
Powder: No. 2400
Max charge: 17.6 grs.
Velocity: 1,810 fps
PSI: 31,800
Barrel Length: 5.6"

That is simply a screamin' fast load. I originally saw this printed in the Second Edition of "Modern Reloading", and confirmed with a Hercules flyer from 1988. Perhaps the newer data booklets won't list as stout a charge, I'll have to check into that...

I wonder what that load would do out of a 18-20" barrel? Yow!

Do any of you have experience with this load?

- Tristan

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:06 pm

Tristan,

RE-read the first post on this thread. The load you quoted is only 1/10 of a grain more than what I was talking about.

Joe

Warhawk · Post by **Warhawk** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:16 pm

Many years ago, when my pre-safety 1894c was young ... I loaded up some hot loads using 110, 125, 158 and 180 grain jacketed bullets. I don't recall the loads, but I used a lot of WW296 back then.

The 110's didn't group so much as they patterned, but I did managed to shoot one cottontail with a 110 JHP. The result wasn't pretty and there wasn't much left for the pot.

The 158s were so much more accurate than the 110s and 125s that I concentrated on the 158's and had the rifle zeroed for this load. 180 JHPs are very accurate in the 1894c as well, and they make a mess of small game too.

JNG · Post by **JNG** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:41 am

I've tried a slew of loads with the .357 in hand gun and rifle. I only use two loads now. The first is 6 grains of Unique with a 158 grain lead flat point, feels like a 22 out of the rifle and just plain fun to shoot with the handgun. The other is 18 grains of Lil-gun. I use a Hornady 158 grain hollow point for the handgun and a flat point with the rifle, with I might add is a 94 Winny. Last year a youngest took a doe whitetail one shoot with the handgun.