OT- Coyotes got a goat last week.

[rangerider7]

I went out to the ranch Friday and one of the partners road up to the barn and had some friends with him. One was the father of a teenage girl that wanted to feed the calves that I have shown with a resent post. After they were ready to go, the partner said he had bought a goat to have on the ranch and had not seen it lately. He is from Florida. I asked him if he had just turned it loose on the ranch to free roam. He said yes. I told him goats are not capable of protecting themselves from predators. They just freeze are run. You need a donkey or large trained dog to protect them. Cattle will circle up and protect their calves if possible. He was shocked. He said the young girl had seen a pack of coyotes eating something in a thicket the day before. I said lets go see where she had seen this. Very little of the young goat was left. This guy is just learning, but the goat didn't have a chance. He said he is going back to Florida in three months for the winter. I told him the coyotes would be sad to see him go.

P.S. At least it gives me a good idea of where to lure the coyotes Tuesday with a bleating goat call.

[rjohns94]

I look forward to your coyote shooting report.

[AJMD429]

We bought a 'used llama' for part of our goat herd as a protector. It weighs about 375 pounds, and when a dog or coyote comes near, it RUNS.

...towards the dog or coyote, that is. If the canine isn't fast enough, it WILL be stomped to death.

Donkeys reportedly will do that as well, and of course guard dogs.

Our two G.P.'s (I won't even try to spell that name... ) will protect as well, and even though our Dalmatian has the same brain a grasshopper has, she will still protect 'her' goat herd.

We really need to devote some time to coyote thinning, however. They are close every night.

[horsesoldier03]

Em goats make pretty expensive coyote bait! I bet this is a lesson he will learn pretty quick. My dad had bought a buro to put out in his pasture to keep the coyotes out but she sure didnt care to confront them. My guess is you need a stud or best to get several so that they are a little more territorial.

[RIHMFIRE]

looks like he needs to do a little yote hunting......
and when he cleans them out....
he can start on the ones down here in florida!

[Kansas Ed]

I remember my grandfather buying a billy goat to keep the coyotes out of his sheep. He said that a billy goat would discourage the coyotes. Well, the goat hated the sheep, and kept jumping the fence to get with the cattle....about the only thing that goat was good for was stealing the Beechnut out of Grandpas overall pocket

Ed

[20cows]

I remember my grandfather buying a billy goat to keep the coyotes out of his sheep.

... By providing a tasty alternative?

[44magHunter]

We have never had a coyote kill one of our goats, but we hear them all of the time and they get really close. I have come close to shooting a couple, but I actually missed!

[Kansas Ed]

I suppose I remember the goat because that was the only time I recall any of my grandfathers plans as failing...

Ed

[Griff]

Ah.... goat, the "other" white meat! Tasty taco critters... unless ya like goat milk... they say it's good for ya... I can't get past the taste, seems like it starts off curdled.

[Ysabel Kid]

I look forward to your coyote shooting report.

Me too!

[Buffboy]

On the way home from shooting prairie dogs yesterday, spotted a coyote in the ditch, jammed the brakes, knew my bolt 223 was empty, got my 1893 out the window but he made it to some corn before I could get a shot off. Too much cover around for coyote hunting now.

[BenT]

Standing in my yard last week when a spotted fawn came running out from behind the shed and through the yard out across the field with a coyote on it's tail. Disappeared around the hill before I could see where it went. I seen the fawn and doe in the back forty field the week before. I think the fawn out ran the coyote because the kids and I kicked a fawn out of the thicket while picking blackberries. It looked to be the same size fawn. So I was shooting some cast loads yesterday and also checked the zero on the 222 . I'll try to call coyotes this week at dusk.

Also the problem with llamas around here is that they have a problem with some type of worm. So they need to be given some medicine every few months. Which is a pain , because they are not the nicest critters. People have tried to give them too me ,but they sound like something I don't want. Maybe a BLM burro. I say this because my wife keeps wanting to get sheep.

[Doc Hudson]

The folks I got mattie, my Great Pyrenees, also raise goats.

They told me thqt efore they got the Pyrs, they tried keeping a burro to protect the herd.

That derned jack killed more goats than the coyotes! Apparently he had a decided dislike for goats.

They got rid of the burro and bought a pair of Pyrenees and had not lost a goat to coyotes or rustlers in over five years.

It would take a good sized wolf-pack or a darned big pack of coyotes to successfully tackle pair of Great Pyrenees!



They make great family protectors as well. Allegedly they have a breed tendency to sleep in doorways to protect their families. The French/Basque mountain folk called them their "mat dogs>" My Mattie lives up to the tradition.

As much as I love Pyrs, I admit they have two drawbacks and one shortcoming.
1 - They shed constantly and copiously.
2 - They bark a lot.

3 -They can be as stubborn as a mule.

Get a couple of Pyrs and you can raise all the goats and sheep you can tolerate without worry about coyotes.

[rangerider7]

We don't raise goats. The partner just decided to put a single goat out with the cattle. Like I said, it didn't have a chance. I will let y'all know how my hunt goes tomorrow. I hunt at least once a week, but when they have made a kill or I see more scat than normal, I get serious. Serious is getting out the Bushmaster Predator 223, all the camo, a moving decoy, and an electronic Foxpro call. This way if all five show up, it's a good chance I will get more than one of them. I have more fun using a mouth call and a lever while sitting in the shade, but everyday can't be like a daisy.

[66GTO]

When your partner returns to FL there will be one less coyote here.

I was in a farm field last week where we have been hunting hogs. I was driving from one field to another to download pictures from some game cameras we have set up when I turned a corner and saw a coyote in a clearing of tall grass about 75 yds in front of me. This was in the middle of the day and I didn't expect to see hogs or coyotes, but I did have my 16" Rossi 92 loaded with .357 180 gr. RNF hardcast in case I did see a pig.

I stopped the truck and got the 92 from behind the seat, opened the door and used it as a rest. The Rossi has Skinner peep sights and I was using the ghost ring without the peep. The hardcast round went through and through, flipping the coyote before he ran into a wooded creek bed. I can't say for sure where I hit him (or her). The strange thing is that the coyote didn't move until I shot it. It just sat there watching me.

I buddy of mine saw a coyote pup wandering through the corn the next day, so I may have shot the pups mother. There are no livestock on this farm, but there are lots of deer, rabbits, and field rats to feed the coyotes. I don't know that they would have the courage to mess with the wild hogs.

[madman4570]

Doc, Awesome looking dogs!! They are loyal big guard dogs.
Only thing no domestic dog is really enough for a wolf.I have a friend that lives in Baniff,BC and had a pair of 160lb Bull Mastiffs.Anyway the pair chased after a lone wolf and the pair was found about 2 miles from their yard killed and partly eaten.The owner said he saw the single gray wolf but at the scene there was two seperate sets of wolf tracks at the kill site.

One of the wildlife officers when asked about this said it is common for a single wolf/a couple wolves/or a pack to get the dogs chasing them getting them tired out first then attacking them because they have so much more wind. (in so much better shape).No wolves anyway in Alabama right?

[shdwlkr]

doc hudson
I saw a friend of mine when back in NYS who raised sheep and had several Pyrs and watched them when the coyotes decided to check out the sheep and the owner just told the dogs to go watch the sheep. The dogs ran up into the sheep and laid down and waited for the coyotes. Three came into the field and none left. The first coyote made the mistake of thinking that one of pyrs was a sheep didn't have a chance. Second one circled the flock and and started to move on the sheep and when it moved in on one sheep it got nailed by another of pyrs. The third one turned to run out of the field but the third prys was at fun speed and got to it before it made it to the fence and was thrown around like a rag dog until it stopped moving and then all three dogs used it as a chew toy. Never seen dogs behave like that but they sure didn't like anything messing with their sheep.
A few days later some individuals tried to steal some of the sheep and the dogs held them at bay away from their truck until the sheriff showed up and made sure he put them in his police car and not their truck before they again ran into the darkness.
One thing my friend said was that they couldn't be allowed to become pets or they would be useless as guard dogs as they would be more interested in being petted then working.

[winchester1886]

Flock Guardian Dogs have been used in Europe and Asia to guard against wolves for thousands of years, but what we are talking about here is not your normal domestic dog, these dogs are as wild as the wolves, and if you read about them a lot of them are absolutely uncontrollable and ferocious and very intelligent, they don't chase wolves of into the bush where the wolves can single them out and kill them, they stay with the flock and protect the flock and if they have to they fight on their own ground.
I heard of a case in the U S or Canada of a fellow out hunting with a number of Coonhound type dogs, I think there were about half a dozen hounds, they went into a pasture where a flock guardian dog was with some sheep, the result was that he killed everyone of them, these dogs are bonded to the sheep or goats or what ever they are protecting and will attack anything that they feel is threatning them.
If you look on Flock Guardian Dogs on the net lots about them really interesting if you like dogs.

[1886]

I have seen several large, tough dogs that made the mistake of taking on coyotes. Or should I say I have seen their carcasses. I can not speak of wolves but given their size..... Dogs that stay together and understand the advantage of numbers would certainly fare better but rarely are there enough dogs to take on a pack. Most dogs also lack the strategy so necessary to handle a pack of canines. 1886.

[madman4570]

Below is taken from the California Wolf Center.org

How strong are wolves' jaws?

The wolf's jaw can exert 1500 pounds of pressure per square inch, twice the jaw pressure of a German Shepherd. Wolves can crush large bones in just a few bites.
Also their canines are twice the length of large domestic dogs!

[shdwlkr]

Another breed of dog I like is the Newfoundland. Very big dog and much like the Pyrs. once they know what is expected they fight to the death. They also like the pack mentality and stay on their ground when fighting they know when the odds are in their favor.
The dogs are more to let the owner know something is up then to really take on a pack of coyotes or wolves. I have seen a few dead eastern coyotes and at 80 plus pounds I don't want to be without a rifle or large caliber pistol. I have seen one live wolf dog and they would make a very tough animal to put down without something to help.
I heard that out west here someplace that the sheep herders all carry rifles to keep unwanted animals all the way up to bears out of the sheep and they all have several dogs like maybe 8 with them to help with herding the sheep. Very lonely life but what country you get to see.
I worked for a sheep farmer back east for a few summers and stray dogs were our problem. They got into the sheep one night and left several dead sheep in the field. We went into the field the next night and I went and sat down among the sheep at first they didn't like me being there but when the dogs started to circle around them they got real close to me and when the dogs came at the flock I dropped a few before they even realized that I was there. My rifle at the time was a winchester model 94 in 30-30 caliber. We got maybe 10-15 that night and the next night got a few more. We collected all the dog tags we could find and turned them over to the country sheriff and he collected the fines.
I have had to drop a dog that was chasing deer on a dairy farm that I worked on. Couldn't figure out what was going on at first as the deer ran pass me and then stopped and just stood there looking back the way they had came. A few minutes later came the dog and it made the mistake of threatening me. It never made another step and when I turned to see if the deer were still there they were eating grass like I wasn't even there and that nothing had happened.
Shot a bunch of dogs that killed a calf on my friends dad's place once too that bunch was huge maybe thirty dogs and most were tagged and the owner just let them run. The county sheriff came along that night to help us reduce the pack and we did only about 8 got away with 3 of us shooting it was a really noisy place for a few minutes. One neighbor even called the police and was told that the sheriff was thinning the stray dog population. One of the dogs belonged to this neighbor and the fine they got was to much for them they moved.

[madman4570]

Would hate to shoot any dog since I love dogs,but when they pack up they become entirely different creatures.About 5 years ago one of the Managers where I worked before I retired brought in this photo of a 140lb 8 point buck lying on its side on the ground which he shot that season.He had lying right next to it which he also shot was a neutered 105lb "I say wolf".He said the Game commission told him it was a adult male coyote that probably got his testees caught on a barb wire fence while jumping over it???
The guy said it appeared the wound was stiched closed from the scar. Have any of you guys heard that they are in the east letting sterile male wolfs back in the population to control the coyotes.Again this is just hear say and I only saw the photo but that darn coyote/wolf etc.looked as big as that buck!

[shdwlkr]

New York state
Was thinking of doing something like that to deal with the coyote problem but the lead person retired I think before it ever got off the ground. Ward Stone of the DEC in New York would be able to answer that question if he is still there.