OT: Any current BA 303 Brits available?

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:49 pm

Not sure how to title this but does anyone know of any currently manufactured bolt action sporting rifles chambered for the 303 British?

J

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Post by **Hobie** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:28 pm

Currently manufactured bolt guns? No. There might be a single-shot or double that the maker will chamber for .303 Brit. If it weren't for the massive number of surplus military guns the .303 would be pretty moribund. (I just love that word...

)

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:37 pm

Why, what are you up to?

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:45 pm

Sadly no

But it would be nice to have one in a modern action with a tight bore.
What do you have on your mind Joe?

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:47 pm

Jerry, I can hear the gears in that head turning in Phoenix!

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:00 pm

Yep I smell smoke

. I have been toying with the idea of chambering a Stevens 200 in the ole .303 for a while now there are a couple barrel makers that will do a custom bore.

Pop Watts · Post by **Pop Watts** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:04 pm

I think there are newly manufactured 303's available in Australia.
Based on a new No4 action.
When I get home from work I will have a look and put a link to the web page.
Just sitting at a Cafe having my cup of tea, so no time to do research until tonight.
Cheers, Pop.

Bruce Scott · Post by **Bruce Scott** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:29 pm

Pop Watts wrote:I think there are newly manufactured 303's available in Australia.
Based on a new No4 action.
When I get home from work I will have a look and put a link to the web page.
Just sitting at a Cafe having my cup of tea, so no time to do research until tonight.
Cheers, Pop.

I don't know of anyone doing new .303s but AIA produce a series in 7.62x51 and 7.62x39.
http://www.australianinternationalarms. ... roduct.htm

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:37 pm

Bruce,

Those are some nice looking rifles. Unfortunately they are still basically military rifles.
Nothing wrong with that, but not what I'm thinking about.

I'm looking for something built on a civilian commercial receiver. Many years ago I saw a beautiful commercial Mauser chambered for the .303 Brit and couldn't buy it.
I'm a fan of the .303 and would love to have a civilian design sporting rifle. Not going to part with my old Long Branch, but something that didn't weigh a ton would be nice.

Love the wood on some of those rifles.

Joe

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:14 pm

Perhaps one of the newer Savages could be used? Not neccessarily one of the Accu-Triggers but the ones you can swap the barrels on. A new barrel and bolt head would get you in business IF they've made one that could be adapted to the .303...does that make sense?

Bruce Scott · Post by **Bruce Scott** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:15 pm

Joe,
I know what you mean but I don't think you'll find anything other than a custom job.

I wish that someone was still making these:
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showthre ... 746&page=0

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:21 pm

I've long had an interest in an early 1900's Lee Enfield sporter. There was a good example of a Lee Metford sporter used by Val Killmer in "The Ghost and the Darkness". Such a rifle would be light and handle well. Stocked in good quality English walnut, in classic sporter style with pistol grip, checkered, and a cheekpiece (NOT a monte carlo), sporting sights, sling mount on a barrel band, shortened magazine.

If you can lay hands on a bore gauge, you can check various rifles in shops. One local shop here has maybe a dozen various .303's in, and I went along with his bore gauge and checked them. Even with sharp rifling, a bore may be on the loose side. An older rifle with a clean tight bore should shoot fine with decent ammo. You could then build a fine sporter once you had a good action and barrel.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:26 pm

Just saw the link,....YES!, like that!

SmokeEater2 · Post by **SmokeEater2** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:00 pm

Lothar-Walther is still chambering new barrels for the .303 if You want to build Your own.

http://www.lothar-walther.de/160.php

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:06 pm

Bruce,

That's enough to make me slobber on my keyboard. Beautiful rifle.

SmokeEater2,

Thanks for the link. It's an idea for sure, but not what I was thinking about. I wonder what the "inch" conversion would show on that barrel. I don't have a conversion handy.

I guess I'll just keep my eyes open and see what I can see.

Joe

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:47 pm

ruffly 26" long, bore .303, grove .314, twist 1:10. That would be cool may have to look into that.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:57 pm

.314" grove diameter ......... hmmmmm.
I'd prefer .311" to tell the truth.

Joe

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:59 pm

J Miller wrote:.314" grove diameter ......... hmmmmm.
I'd prefer .311" to tell the truth.

Joe

So would I. But you can get cast gas checked in .314 and my Enfield has a .314 grove and shoots the .311 Sierras just fine.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:09 pm

JReed wrote:
J Miller wrote:.314" grove diameter ......... hmmmmm.
I'd prefer .311" to tell the truth.

Joe
So would I. But you can get cast gas checked in .314 and my Enfield has a .314 grove and shoots the .311 Sierras just fine.

.314" ... lucky you. I think we determined mine does good with the 180gr Sierras too.
I'm tending to stay with jacketed bullets for now. I'm not set up to cast, and I never did like doing it when I did. Of course things change and when I get to a better place that might too.

Joe

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:28 pm

Yeah I did get lucky on mine

. I would say yours shot the Sierras just fine all the way out to 200M

aussie · Post by **aussie** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:38 am

Joe, I've heard of a few guys that have bought sporting stocks - plastic - for the 303 and use that to hunt with and keep the wood safe. Makes the rifle a whole lot lighter as well. Just a thought.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:48 am

aussie wrote:Joe, I've heard of a few guys that have bought sporting stocks - plastic - for the 303 and use that to hunt with and keep the wood safe. Makes the rifle a whole lot lighter as well. Just a thought.

Aussie,
I've thought of that too. However I have the same feelings about sporterizing an intact military rifle as I do converting an Old Model Ruger BH to a 44 Special. I think it's a terrible idea and can't do it.

However -- if I were to find one already Buba'd then I might consider it.
One of the thoughts I had was to use a different type of stock on one. Do you remember the first Crocodile Dundee movie? In it Nick ( I think that was the characters name ) used what I think was a sporterized No4 Mk1 with a nice thumb hole stock. That has always fascinated me. I'll have to watch that movie again to see.

But here we are back to my original question which was; is there any currently made bolt action sporting rifles in 303 British? From what we've come up with I guess not.
That's really too bad because it really is a great caliber.

Joe

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:28 am

Joe, I still think your best bet is going to be a used Savage with the barrel nut system for easier barrel changing.

This link came from one of the other forums I visit by way of another member:

For simple instructions on how to rebarrel a Savage, this dude is pretty good.

Not having the diemsions at hand for the .303 COAL, etc I would guess the donor rifle would need to be a long action. The barrel would need to be sourced (maybe a custom from Sharp Shooter Supply? http://www.sharpshootersupply.com/ ) and the bolt head as well. You might give them a call/email and see if they can provide any guidance.

There may not be any new ones available but you CAN have the .303 you want. All it takes is time and money. I know, I never have enough of either as well...

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:50 am

awp101 wrote:Joe, I still think your best bet is going to be a used Savage with the barrel nut system for easier barrel changing.

This link came from one of the other forums I visit by way of another member:
For simple instructions on how to rebarrel a Savage, this dude is pretty good.
Not having the diemsions at hand for the .303 COAL, etc I would guess the donor rifle would need to be a long action. The barrel would need to be sourced (maybe a custom from Sharp Shooter Supply? http://www.sharpshootersupply.com/ ) and the bolt head as well. You might give them a call/email and see if they can provide any guidance.

There may not be any new ones available but you CAN have the .303 you want. All it takes is time and money. I know, I never have enough of either as well...

Time and money, yep that's all it takes. Time I got, money I don't. Not enough anyway. And having a custom built isn't what I was thinking off. I've seen commercial Mausers chambered for the 303 Brit, so somewhere there must be one I could acquire.

Joe

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:54 am

J Miller wrote:And having a custom built isn't what I was thinking off.

I don't think of it as a "custom" since it's really more of a rebarrel. Plus whatever needed to be done to the bolt head.

To me a "custom" involves lots of major work, time and an unending cash outlay...

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:11 pm

awp101 wrote:
J Miller wrote:And having a custom built isn't what I was thinking off.
I don't think of it as a "custom" since it's really more of a rebarrel. Plus whatever needed to be done to the bolt head.

To me a "custom" involves lots of major work, time and an unending cash outlay...

I guess we look at things different. Besides the barrel and the bolt face/extractor/ejector there is the magazine work. Changing a rifle from a rimless feed system to a rimed feed system isn't always easy.

No, I'm looking for a factory original civilian sporting rifle. Don't wanna mess with a custom job.

Joe

JustaJeepGuy · Post by **JustaJeepGuy** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:27 pm

J Miller wrote:However -- if I were to find one already Buba'd then I might consider it.

That's how I found my No. 5 Mk I. Somebody polished all the collector value off it. I bought a plastic stock for a No. 4 and put it on. Works fine for my purposes, but the Savage re-barrel idea sounds quite interesting!

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:30 pm

Joe,
Thought about building one on a Siamese mauser, you should be able to get close to what you want.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:32 pm

Ummmm, can I see a show of hands from those who can read and comprehend the English language? So few? Wow, I thought there was more here than that.

Alright now, pay attention. All I wanted to know was: Is there any current commercial civilian bolt action sporting rifles made that are chambered for the 303 British cartridge. You know, like Winchesters, Marlins, Remingtons, Mausers, like that.

Are you still paying attention?

I said nothing, zip, nada, zilch, about building one myself.

OK then, one more time - I am not interested in building one myself, or having one custom built. Period.

Thanks for your attention.

Have a nice evening.

Ya'll come back now, ya hear.

Joe

Bruce Scott · Post by **Bruce Scott** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:54 pm

Joe,

They aren't current but good Parker Hale commercial sporters like these are out there and can be had at pretty good prices:
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g216/ ... phs006.jpg

There's one here (no pic) for $300:
http://islandpress.nbclassifieds.ca/lis ... s&id=40140

jhrosier · Post by **jhrosier** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:15 pm

Joe,
The only rifle that I ever saw that was built from scratch as a sporter in .303 Brit was the Lee-Speed.
It was the commercial equivalent to the No.1MkI military rifle.
I believe that the Lee-Speed would date to the first part of the last century, if not a bit earlier.

I also had a target rifle that was built on an early '98 Mauser action. Never saw another like it.

The issue with the cartridge in a bolt gun is the difficulty in feeding the rimmed case reliably.
It seems that the Enfields were the only guns that ever really got it right.

I know the the 1895 Winchester rifle was also chambered in .303 but I'm not sure if any of the sporting models were so chambered or only the military ones.

A Canadian company called Globeco built some very nice sporters from military guns back in the '60s.
There were a couple of grades, with the better ones having very nice Monte-Carlo stocks and well done bluing.

Jack

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:16 pm

Bruce Scott wrote:Joe,

They aren't current but good Parker Hale commercial sporters like these are out there and can be had at pretty good prices:
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g216/ ... phs006.jpg

There's one here (no pic) for $300:
http://islandpress.nbclassifieds.ca/lis ... s&id=40140

Bruce,
Am I all wet or is the vast majority of .303 sporters made on the No4 Mk1 action? Or is this a commercial version of it?
I like them, but they seem soooooo um military like.

Is that add in Canada? Kinda looks like it.

Joe

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:24 pm

jhrosier wrote:Joe,
The only rifle that I ever saw that was built from scratch as a sporter in .303 Brit was the Lee-Speed.
It was the commercial equivalent to the No.1MkI military rifle.
I believe that the Lee-Speed would date to the first part of the last century, if not a bit earlier.

I also had a target rifle that was built on an early '98 Mauser action. Never saw another like it.

The issue with the cartridge in a bolt gun is the difficulty in feeding the rimmed case reliably.
It seems that the Enfields were the only guns that ever really got it right.

I know the the 1895 Winchester rifle was also chambered in .303 but I'm not sure if any of the sporting models were so chambered or only the military ones.

A Canadian company called Globeco built some very nice sporters from military guns back in the '60s.
There were a couple of grades, with the better ones having very nice Monte-Carlo stocks and well done bluing.

Jack

That is probably something like the Mauser I saw way back in Phoenix.

So it seems that the British rifles for the 303 cartridge are primarily built on the same basic action as their military rifles. OK. Joey be hard headed sometimes. I understand now.

I wonder what one of them Parker Hales would go for here in the states?

Joe

86er · Post by **86er** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:40 pm

E.R. Shaw - famous for their barrels - now makes a barreled action and separately you pick a JRS Laminate stock for it. They have over 30 calibers available. One of the choices is 303 British. I am having E.R. Shaw make a custom rifle for me, however in a different caliber.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:42 pm

86er wrote:E.R. Shaw - famous for their barrels - now makes a barreled action and separately you pick a JRS Laminate stock for it. They have over 30 calibers available. One of the choices is 303 British. I am having E.R. Shaw make a custom rifle for me, however in a different caliber.

Joe,
You gotta link for E.R. Shaw?

Joe

86er · Post by **86er** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:51 pm

www.ershawbarrels.com

They don't list 303 Brit as a standard listing but you can call and get whatever you want. A custom barrelled action is $679 and then they stock it with whatever you pick from their selection.

Bang · Post by **Bang** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:26 am

.303 british

.303 came in so many flavours its scary. I wouldn't put a .303 into dangerous game unless I was a crack shot or cornered up a tree.
I have a Mk1 Lee Metford - i use 220gr projectiles in BP.

Maybe look for an Officers private purchase rifle ? I suggest you look for the best looking .303 every made - the Enfield Cavalry carbine !

Hard one - I have seen a custom P14 in .303 beautifully finished - frankly the Lee action is ugly.

What about a Canadian Ross Rifle in .303 ?
You might laugh but I have a Martini single shot - private purchase in 30-40 Krag. If it could speak -i'd ask why a british single shot action was rebarrelled in the US and why it ended up in Australia ?

What do you want ? Enfield ? Ross's are pre WW2, P14's are the similar.

The .303 was the US 30-40 equivalent for all the same reasons they wanted to change calibres pre WW1

Bruce Scott · Post by **Bruce Scott** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:30 am

Joe,

I agree the No.4 action looks very military. A No.1 with a 5 round mag and charger bridge taken off is less so. For good measure the butt socket can be ground off and a one piece stock made up..... but we're talking a lot of custom again -

.

Some discussion here on .303 Mausers http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=35720
- 'twas a good while ago tho'.

I'm pretty sure I have seen something much more recent in the way of a .303 on a Mauser action but haven't managed to come up with anything yet.

JustaJeepGuy · Post by **JustaJeepGuy** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:13 pm

J Miller wrote:Ummmm, can I see a show of hands from those who can read and comprehend the English language? So few? Wow, I thought there was more here than that.

Alright now, pay attention. All I wanted to know was: Is there any current commercial civilian bolt action sporting rifles made that are chambered for the 303 British cartridge. You know, like Winchesters, Marlins, Remingtons, Mausers, like that.

Are you still paying attention?

I said nothing, zip, nada, zilch, about building one myself.

OK then, one more time - I am not interested in building one myself, or having one custom built. Period.

And yet you expressed interest in the J. R. Shaw website. People are trying to help, and you've only got a snide remark. That's the end for me.

Cliff · Post by **Cliff** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:50 pm

If you wish to go the full commercial made route, best contact Rigby in England. they will build you a rifle to your specs. and caliber. Long respected and will use a mauser action. Just lots of money required. Maybe 4 year wait as well, but they make nice bang sticks. Good Luck.........

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:44 pm

You know this thread has gotten out of control. I asked a question and several members here swung it to the custom route. I said I wasn't interested in the custom route.

Yes I thanked those who posted links. As a courtesy I always thank those who post links. And I'm always interested in places to buy gun parts. Especially when I have guns with needs that we may not even be talking about. So yes I expressed interest in them.

I'm not interested in customs. Not interested in a DIY job either. All I wanted to know is was there commercial made bolt guns in .303. It wasn't me who kept swinging this thread off topic.
I'm done with it too. The question has been asked and answered. To those who actually did answer my question, even if it took me a while to understand, thank you.

Joe

aussie · Post by **aussie** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:33 am

Joe, at the risk of annoying you further, just take a look at this link and scroll down to the last of the 303. It is a lovely Wesley richards, not a bolt gun, but still very handsome.
http://usedguns.com.au/used_rifles_7mm.html#7mmplus

Bang · Post by **Bang** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:51 am

JustaJeepGuy wrote: And yet you expressed interest in the J. R. Shaw website. People are trying to help, and you've only got a snide remark. That's the end for me.

hmmm probably sums it up.

The .303 was a dead cartridge before ww1. No major manufacturer makes a new rifle for a cartridge that was obsolete before ww1 let alone in 2009. The Commonwealth Countries used .303 because they were unable to change due to massive costs and 2 wars.

The last commercial .303 I saw was from the 1970's made by Parker Hale ~30+ years ago.
They used 1940's No4mk2*actions and were magnificent.

a nice lever gun is :

http://www.gunsinternational.com/WIN-DE ... AD2C67890B

a mere paltry $5500

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:44 pm

aussie wrote:Joe, at the risk of annoying you further, just take a look at this link and scroll down to the last of the 303. It is a lovely Wesley richards, not a bolt gun, but still very handsome.
http://usedguns.com.au/used_rifles_7mm.html#7mmplus

aussie,
Am not annoyed, just get tired of folks telling me to do things I already said I wasn't interested in doing.

There is a tremendous ammount of nice rifles in that site. That Westley Richards Martini Sporting Rife almost made me drool. Nice. WAY out of my league though.
Thanks for the link.

Bang wrote:
JustaJeepGuy wrote: And yet you expressed interest in the J. R. Shaw website. People are trying to help, and you've only got a snide remark. That's the end for me.
hmmm probably sums it up.

The .303 was a dead cartridge before ww1. No major manufacturer makes a new rifle for a cartridge that was obsolete before ww1 let alone in 2009. The Commonwealth Countries used .303 because they were unable to change due to massive costs and 2 wars.

The last commercial .303 I saw was from the 1970's made by Parker Hale ~30+ years ago.
They used 1940's No4mk2*actions and were magnificent.

a nice lever gun is :

http://www.gunsinternational.com/WIN-DE ... AD2C67890B

a mere paltry $5500

Amazing, just amazing.

Joe

Bruce Scott · Post by **Bruce Scott** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:32 pm

Bang wrote:
No major manufacturer makes a new rifle for a cartridge that was obsolete before ww1 let alone in 2009.

Except for people like Marlin, Ruger, Browning and others.

I am, of course, talking about the venerable .45-70, which became obsolete as a service cartridge in (about) 1893.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:28 pm

Bruce Scott wrote:
Bang wrote:
No major manufacturer makes a new rifle for a cartridge that was obsolete before ww1 let alone in 2009.
Except for people like Marlin, Ruger, Browning and others.

I am, of course, talking about the venerable .45-70, which became obsolete as a service cartridge in (about) 1893.

Bruce,
Don't forget the 30-40 Krag, as well as the 30-06. Both are obsolete according to the military. And wait, we can't forget the 30-30, you can't kill anything with that old obsolete round, all the gun writers tell us that.

Joe