#$%^ing Arthritis!

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:42 pm

Well, after years of using my body as a hammer, the Doc told me I have arthritis some time back; I finally got back to going to the gym and working out, and now my middle knuckle on my right hand feels like I smashed it on someone's forehead; been that way for a couple weeks, now. Tried shooting last night, and finally gave up in disgust. (and pain) Anyone know of anything that helps?

Whining mode back on......

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:44 pm

Yeah,
But I am pretty sure you will laugh at me and not do it.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:57 pm

Had you been at the Indiana shoot you'd have seen me cripping around. About the only thing that keeps me going is Ibuprofen ... lots of it.

Don't like it either, but so far the stuff the MDs given me don't work too good.

Joe

timkelley · Post by **timkelley** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:06 pm

Get some kind of anti-inflamitory such as Aleve or aspirin and take the max dose allowed on the package for a week or so. If that hasn't helped, then it's Dr. time, he will put you on Celebrex or other industrial strength medicine. I use some stuff called Diclofenac Sodium and it keeps the yelling down.

don Tomás · Post by **don Tomás** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:18 pm

J Miller wrote:About the only thing that keeps me going is Ibuprofen ... lots of it.
Joe

+1 - (2) 800Mg Ibuprofen (Motrin) horse pills will usually takes care of my finger and neck Arthur-itis. (and 20 grains of Unique will usually take care of any gun problems you may have too...

)
Tom

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:31 pm

DMSO...Great for inflamination. Get it at Tack Shops. They use it on horses and in sports medicine all the time. It stinks, tho.

flatnose · Post by **flatnose** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:43 pm

Travis,
Wht type of arthritis do you have?

mod71alaska · Post by **mod71alaska** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:57 pm

Travis Morgan wrote:Well, after years....the Doc told me I have arthritis some time back; I finally got back to going to the gym and working out, and now my middle knuckle on my right hand feels like I smashed it on someone's forehead; been that way for a couple weeks, now....Anyone know of anything that helps?

I can relate. This spring I've been so painfully stiff in my joints I finally consulted with my doctor on Monday this week about the large amount of Advil and Aleve I've been taking without getting much relief. He prescribed an anti-inflamatory called Diclofenac Sod Ec (75mg) which he said does not cause stomach upset and/or bleeding long term like Advil (Ibuprofren) and Aleve (Naproxen) often do. This prescription was like a miracle drug for me. I'm back to feeling my old 62 year old self again and functioning without crippling stiffness and pain. It doesn't make you feel 22 again, but I couldn't be more pleased with the effect this medication has had. I recommend you inquire with your doctor, and hope you're feeling like your old self again soon, too. Victor

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:02 pm

A compression glove ?????.
Use ice and an occasional Advil(unless there is a reason not to take it such as any other drug interactions/allergic to/etc.)
Refrane from using that hand(working out???for a while to see if it clears up some)I know that would be hard.
If at all possible stay the heck away from prescription arthitis medicines unless no other alternative.(from what I have seen these create more side effects,some quite serious and you can end up worse than just a sore arthritic knuckle.
Where is the Doc when we need em???? AJMD429 ??????????????

JP_TX · Post by **JP_TX** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:09 pm

Well as soon as my personal rain prediction device goes off in my lower back (Lord, how I hate that.) I start to take Naproxin. 1 every 12 hours till the atmospheric pressure goes back up.

That and a vibrator chair the wife bought me works for me.

I used to think I had a bad back until I really got one. How I love those days now when I don't even think about it, but they are getting fewer and further away.

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:13 pm

I find that laying flat on my back doing the knee to chest exercises and exercising the back muscles so that they rather than the spine carry the weight helps. Moving helps too. Stopping for any length of time is a sure lead in to stiffness and pain.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:14 pm

Last time I was back home, while setting up a batch plant, I stepped on a rock wrong, pulled my ankle pretty good.
That night I put some DMSO on it, and it loossend up right away, stunk though.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:21 pm

flatnose wrote:Travis,
Wht type of arthritis do you have?

Osteoarthritis, I think.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:55 pm

Travis Morgan wrote:
flatnose wrote:Travis,
Wht type of arthritis do you have?
Osteoarthritis, I think.

Watch out on big doses of the ibuprofens if you have borderline blood pressure or any kidney problems, though.

There's a good (but pricey) product called Voltaren that comes in a gel; you'd not need much for a couple finger or wrist joints, though; Dr. can Rx it but you may have to pay out of pocket for it (insurance only covers the stuff that's so cheap you wouldn't need insurance for it

). The reason I like it is it's topical so much less gets in your liver, eyeballs, and places it's not needed. The Icy Hot type ones over the counter aren't nearly as potent over the long haul, but give some comfort by a sort of 'white noise' effect that drowns out pain, as well as increasing local circulation just as heat would. There probably isn't a whole lot of actual anti-inflammatory effect, even though they're salicylate (aspirin) derivetaves. Of course the "latest" news seems to be that osteoarthritis ISN'T an "inflammation" process, despite that being accepted as Medical Gospel on board exams for the past fifty years.

Go figure - we don't know that much more than the witch doctors, and we don't even get to wear the pretty masks and feathers and stuff...!

There are some way more intense (costly and more side effects, but ALSO much more effective) alternatives available if you have rheumatoid arthritis (i.e. a positive 'citrulline cyclic peptide' test); if lots of your symptoms are in the knuckles rather than finger joints may be worth getting tested.

On days off, I elbow my wife so she wakes up, then (not knowing I woke her up out of laziness) she'll make a cup of coffee for herself and bring me one. I hold the mug because my hands so appreciate the HEAT. Once they limber up, about half the time I'll START the day with a warm bath to limber up the back and knees. And I'm barely over 50!

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:36 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
Travis Morgan wrote:
flatnose wrote:Travis,
Wht type of arthritis do you have?
Osteoarthritis, I think.
Watch out on big doses of the ibuprofens if you have borderline blood pressure or any kidney problems, though.

There's a good (but pricey) product called Voltaren that comes in a gel; you'd not need much for a couple finger or wrist joints, though; Dr. can Rx it but you may have to pay out of pocket for it (insurance only covers the stuff that's so cheap you wouldn't need insurance for it ). The reason I like it is it's topical so much less gets in your liver, eyeballs, and places it's not needed. The Icy Hot type ones over the counter aren't nearly as potent over the long haul, but give some comfort by a sort of 'white noise' effect that drowns out pain, as well as increasing local circulation just as heat would. There probably isn't a whole lot of actual anti-inflammatory effect, even though they're salicylate (aspirin) derivetaves. Of course the "latest" news seems to be that osteoarthritis ISN'T an "inflammation" process, despite that being accepted as Medical Gospel on board exams for the past fifty years.

Go figure - we don't know that much more than the witch doctors, and we don't even get to wear the pretty masks and feathers and stuff...!

There are some way more intense (costly and more side effects, but ALSO much more effective) alternatives available if you have rheumatoid arthritis (i.e. a positive 'citrulline cyclic peptide' test); if lots of your symptoms are in the knuckles rather than finger joints may be worth getting tested.

On days off, I elbow my wife so she wakes up, then (not knowing I woke her up out of laziness) she'll make a cup of coffee for herself and bring me one. I hold the mug because my hands so appreciate the HEAT. Once they limber up, about half the time I'll START the day with a warm bath to limber up the back and knees. And I'm barely over 50!

I'm 32.

piller · Post by **piller** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:13 pm

Diclofenac Sodium is the generic name for Voltaren. It does cause stomach problems, according to the FDA it is worse on your stomach and kidneys than ibuprofen or naproxen. That is why it is still prescription. Another topical which can help with the "white noise" effect is Zostrix or Capzasin. They both use hot pepper extract. Have you ever eaten jalapeno poppers until the burning in your mouth went away, and there was no pain in your mouth for hours? That effect is from capsaicin, the active ingredient. Celebrex and Mobic are Cyclooxygenase type II inhibitors, and though they will still potentially cause stomach bleeding, ulcers, and kidney damage, the reality is that they are much less damaging and most of the time give better relief.
Also, get some glucosamine and chondroitin capsules or tablets. They help most people, but if after a month there is no change, then there won't ever be.
Good luck!

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:46 pm

Travis, when I shoe my stock a old injury in my lower back plays hob I just get a bute tablet and cut in 1/8s and take 1 or 2 gets me over the bump. danny

flatnose · Post by **flatnose** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:04 pm

Travis,
I have suffered with arthritis since I was 25 years old. It occurs most from the cold damp environment in which I used to live. I was not sure of the type which I had/have, but it got increasingly worse to the point my back was giving me constant pain, and finally it was hurting to walk. Even with more and more exercise the situation was deteriorating fast. I tried Voltaren which did help, but refused to take Ibuprophen. If you start on painkillers, they will mask the pain, but the problem still exists. If you are in pain and take painkillers just kick back and take it easy for a while, or you may be damaging your joints further and at a more rapid rate. Dont take baths or showers, when in pain, especially hot ones. Stay away from humidity, use a dehumidifier or run the A/C to dry the air if its hot. If you are in constant pain, then the ultimate help would be to move to a climate such as Phoenix AZ.
The type of arthritis I have appears to be caused by Uric acid that crystallises in the joints causing stiffness and pain. Although I was not diagnosed with it, my father suffered with it as do my older and younger brothers.
I recently dropped 20lbs of lard through diet, and the doctor told me that I have an under active thyroid, and that was probably the reason I was gaining weight slowly, even though I dont eat much.
For the problem with the thyroid, I was prescribed with Levothyroxine, 1 50mg tab per day. I got the prescription filled, and took one before going to bed. Next morning I awoke, and not a pain anywhere. An interesting side effect?.
I recently ran out of medication and was without for a week. Slowly the joint pains retuned. Filled a new prescription, and the pain has now gone again. I have not felt this good in many years.
I have told my brothers this in the UK, and they are going to give it a try.
Hopefully this info may help some sufferers here. Get the arthritis condition type diagnosed. I told my doctor what happened in my case, amd she just shrugged her shoulders, and offered no further info or facts.
It works for me, so I will keep taking it.

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:07 pm

Uh, I hope you're kidding! I was told by my vet that BUTE was very toxic in humans.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:56 am

Dang I got high BP and I take Ibuprofen. I guess I better quit that. I started taking rather high doses of Vitamin C a few weeks ago when I was going through a bit of the flu. I was eating 10-12 of the 500 mg. tabs a day and I noticed my joint pain had gone away.

GonnePhishin · Post by **GonnePhishin** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:38 am

Be sure to take those large doses (600-800 mg) of Ibuprofen with some food.
NEVER take on an empty stomach as it can cause bleeding and the potential for ulcers.

Buffboy · Post by **Buffboy** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:52 am

For my joint pain I take Glucosamine Sulfate only, now and have been for years because of a shoulder injury. I found it also helped my ankle, that used to sprain if I looked at it wrong, has been pretty solid now for over a year. I found that when I bought the stuff combined with Chondroitin it didn't work and my pain came back. Just last week, I read in a Reader's digest that the two combined cancel each other out in a lot of people. I had to take it a while for it to work(2weeks-month, 3-500mg capsules a day) from a cold start, but once it did, I just backed down to a couple/three capsules a week to keep it away. My wife has had similar results.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:36 am

TM -

Sorry to hear this, especially for someone so young. I'm 45, and I can't remember the last time I went to bed or woke up without some sort of ache or pain. Of course, I enjoy just waking up realizing I've made it to another day! I've had bad back problems for a couple decades now after a car accident. Sometimes it will flare up to the point that I can not put my socks and shoes on. At those points usually anything over the counter doesn't do a thing for relief, and I have to go to the heavy stuff. Hate using it though.

Good luck!

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:52 am

Maybe LDN

Low Dose Naltrexone

LDN has shown promise in treating autoimmune diseases like rheumatoid arthritis.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... eases.aspx

brucew44guns · Post by **brucew44guns** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:00 am

My hands are about shot from 42 years of holding a steering wheel and shifting 2 four speeds for years. I can relate my friend, but I tend to lan towards the DSMO before putting those aspirin type chemicals in my gut.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:09 am

Motion is lotion. Activity seems to flare up arthritis and muscle pain but I find that after I work through that, the pain is less and the symptoms become non-existant. I have been taking vitamins and suppliments from GNC that has a sports Suppliment. In it is Glucosimine, MSM and Chondroitin. here is a link :http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?pr ... 23.2146538 Its the triflex fast acting. This has taken care of the pain in my ankle that i have broken twice, my lower back with 3 crushed vertebrae (and a surgery), both knees (5 surgeries), and numerous broken bones and injuries to hands, wrist, arm, fingers, and neck. I was a skeptic until I tried it. I personally got great relief after about 2 weeks of taking this suppliment and daily walks and light PT. Good luck with what ever you try.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:54 am

Holly Cow!!!!!!!!
Last time to the Doc 4 years ago!(just to meet new Primary Doc)
No drugs of any kind(legal or non-legal,never smoked)do drink a six pack of beer or so weekly,drink pot of Maxwell house coffee daily)
I have no issues of anything.I eat tons of fresh broccoli and carrots,eat a lot of Whole Oat cooked oatmeal/frozen blueberrys
I drink a lot of skim milk/yogart eat an apple,banana,orange every day,Take the Real Green Tea w/local grown honey(wildflower)(buy 6 5Lb jars every fall)for $60
also take 2TBS Carlson Norway fish oil and 1TBS of Virgin olive oil daily. No vitimans at all what so everl Lift weights daily and ride mountain as much as possible.(thats the key)
Get the Flu Shot yearly at where I worked and pneumonia shot every 7 years,
Both parents of mine were Medical Professionals (Director of Research and Senior Manager of RN Nurses) always told me to stay the heck out of the hospital as much as possible.(I Do)

52 and feel 25 Now that I have said this watch my health go to stuff!

Now the dentist? Different story! Man I keep them in business.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:40 pm

BigSky56 wrote:Travis, when I shoe my stock a old injury in my lower back plays hob I just get a bute tablet and cut in 1/8s and take 1 or 2 gets me over the bump. danny

Thanks, but I already have stomache problems; no sense in guaranteeing they'll get worse!

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:48 pm

20cows wrote:Uh, I hope you're kidding! I was told by my vet that BUTE was very toxic in humans.

That's an old trick with rodeo guys, but not one you should use unless you're stuck in the middle of nowhere with no options.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:53 pm

brucew44guns wrote:My hands are about shot from 42 years of holding a steering wheel and shifting 2 four speeds for years. I can relate my friend, but I tend to lan towards the DSMO before putting those aspirin type chemicals in my gut.

Actually, you guys need to stay away from DMSO (I forget what that stands for) DMSO will carry things through your skin, directly into your bloodstream; it's often used mixed with other medicines to carry them into the bloodstream right at the site of the injury. I've seen it mixed with painkillers to use as a rub. DO NOT DO THIS! You can OVERDOSE doing this, as the medicines in pill form are controlled release; when you mix with DMSO, they can hit your bloodstream all at once, and KILL YOU!

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:15 pm

DMSO is a solvent byproduct of the pulp paper industry if you remove the solvent you get MSM which is good for you I use it on horses for tying up disease it will immediately break down the latic acid build up and relieve the horses, works good on muscle cramps that I get too and its suppose to be good for joints and pain. danny

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:27 pm

Travis Morgan wrote:
brucew44guns wrote:My hands are about shot from 42 years of holding a steering wheel and shifting 2 four speeds for years. I can relate my friend, but I tend to lan towards the DSMO before putting those aspirin type chemicals in my gut.
Actually, you guys need to stay away from DMSO (I forget what that stands for) DMSO will carry things through your skin, directly into your bloodstream; it's often used mixed with other medicines to carry them into the bloodstream right at the site of the injury. I've seen it mixed with painkillers to use as a rub. DO NOT DO THIS! You can OVERDOSE doing this, as the medicines in pill form are controlled release; when you mix with DMSO, they can hit your bloodstream all at once, and KILL YOU!

A solvent no better or worse than rubbing alcohol......If your skin is clean, you will have no problems with it... It's better for you than any of that stuff that rots out your stomach.....

JustaJeepGuy · Post by **JustaJeepGuy** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:56 pm

flatnose wrote:The type of arthritis I have appears to be caused by Uric acid that crystallises in the joints causing stiffness and pain.

I thought that was the cause of gout.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:43 pm

Well, went to the Dr. today, and she gave me some Meloxicam and Voltaren Gel. Hopefully, something will work!

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:45 pm

How far are you from the nearest res, and which one is it?

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:00 pm

Danny,Your hard core dude!! Oh Ya, you de man!!!!!!!

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:20 pm

+1 on the Capscasin.

Get a good strong food-grade extract without flavorings ("Pure Cap" brand is one, there are others) and mix it into a good massage oil like Badger Oil.

Make a strong enough blend that it is just below the pain threshold when rubbed in. Once worked into the skin it will work all day and ever "reactivate" when run under hot water.

Pretty amazing stuff Capscasin. Great for muscle spasams & shallow tissue inflamation. When used with deep tissue massage/myofacial release... wow.

flatnose · Post by **flatnose** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:36 pm

JustaJeep Guy,
You are correct, it is also one of the many tpes of arthritis. Gouty Arthritis.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:59 pm

madman4570 wrote: 52 and feel 25 Now that I have said this watch my health go to stuff!

A friend and fellow physician thought he didn't really need preventative care since he ate right, exercised regularly, used a few nutritional supplements, etc., but his colon cancer was metastatic when found due to some mild but persistant symptoms. When you find the BEFORE the symptoms, the cure rate exceeds 99% WITHOUT even having surgery (or chemo or radiation).

Another "healthy" woman patient of mine was only 45, had her "physicals" at a gynecologist, and was told her lipids were great because her LDL was only 58. Her HDL was 28, and her Triglycerides 155, and her blood sugar 98, and so everything was 'just fine' and when I'd see her for things her female gynecologist didn't want to treat or cross-refer to other specialists, like an acute bronchitis, I'd remind her to get physicals from a family physician and that I didn't think her lipids were really that good. She finally agreed to more aggressive lab testing, and an physical. She actually WAS diabetic (the triglycerides and HDL were my clue) and had a 2-hour sugar of something like 240. When properly tested, her LDL turned out to be the equivalent (on a better test) of if it had been about 240 as well. She already had plaque in her carotid arteries, but her heart hadn't been detectably damaged yet. So far so good, because we started fixing all those very fixable issues, which would have added another 20-30 years to her life expectancy which was not too great if those issues were untreated. Unfortunately, I also found a melanoma about the size of a peppercorn in an area only her gynecologist and husband would ever have seen, which had already metastasized to her lungs.

Moral of the story - Preventative care can be lifesaving, and GOOD preventative care is even better.

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:18 pm

My brother was one of those that had to be hog-tied to get him to a doctor, even when he went from a strong 190 lbs to 150 rather quickly. He kept rationalizing it was something minor.

By the time the colon cancer was found, he'd already starved himself to death.

Wrangler John · Post by **Wrangler John** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:58 am

I've been treated for gout since I was in my mid 20's. Most recently with 500 mg Colbenemid (Colchicine and Benemid). I had to stop it before surgery (it intensifies general anesthetic) so my right big toe swelled up and I could hardly walk. The pain management doc shot up my toe with cortisone so I could get through the surgery. Colbenemid works well, but can be dangerous - you'll need quarterly liver and kidney function blood tests.

Injections of cortisone helped my cubital tunnel syndrome - nerves trapped by arthritic deposits in my elbows that made my little and ring fingers numb on both hands. Injections can help with acute arthritis. Also use of a home hot wax therapy machine helps - they used it on me in physical therapy, along with electro-stim.

The surgery involved removal of a large benign tumor from my cervical spinal cord - they removed five lamina to get at it. The surgeon noted that I also had significant osteoarthritis of the neck!

Just today received the x-rays of my wrists - severe osteoarthritis in both hands. That goes along with the carpal tunnel syndrome, torn ligaments, lipomas. Good news is that the nerve damage limits the pain I feel - but they can get ouchy after driving, and both hands and forearms will cramp (Charley horse) after 30 minutes of work.

Tried all the NSAID's but only 500 mg of Naprosyn works for me. Voltarin, Vioxx (which they took off the market) Celebrex, Indocin, none do a dang thing. If you take these things, be sure the doc monitors your kidney and liver function.

Butazolidin (phenylbutazone) is indeed primarily an equine anti-inflammatory. I popped many a bute pill down the gullet of horses. Yet my doctor gave it to me for a wrist injury - it's never given for more than five days. Phenylbutazone is toxic as heck and dangerous - my mother-in-law took Butazolidin Alka for years, she died of kidney failure. Same thing for Dimethyl Sulfoxide (DMSO) used it on horses - but the fumes would flow off the dauber and absorb into my skin leaving a taste like rotten garlic in my mouth. There are better treatments than DMSO. Strange thing is my left shoulder which I broke twice falling off horses is the only thing that doesn't hurt.

I stopped taking all the drugs on a daily basis - only use them when flair ups happen. A few Naprosyn tablets and the pain is gone. For acute episodes of neck and hand pain the Naprosyn is augmented with a tad of narcotic Norco (10 mg hydrocodone and 325 mg acetaminophen). Don't mix the hydrocodone that contains ibuprofen with Naprosyn or other NSAID's. Thing is, the narcotics need to be used sparingly because they become less effective over time. I use only one or two doses then stop. Sometimes a muscle relaxant helps, as the muscles can spasm and put pressure on the arthritic joints (I use Flexeril for the back and neck). A regimen of vitamin supplements, B1, B6(P5P), B12, D3, Coenzyme Q-10, Calcium, Potassium and Fish Oil helps. These NSAID drugs will effect your kidneys and liver over time, and I'm saving my liver in case I ever take up drinking.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:25 am

I know everybody has different views as to what proper medical care is.And yes I probably should have a colon screening done.etc.(after they get that Fleet Phospho-Soda issue squared away??)
Dont need my perfectly working liver/kidneys screwed up?

"My opinion", is our HMO health plan provides most all of its available doctors like picking straws out of a hat. you dont have One specific doctor.(might also be a P.A.)but charge me the same? might be a 1st year doctor and also most are from India.(I want someone I can understand(its like the Dell Computer help line thing)
No one knows my own body like I do.Those Indian doctors in "my opinion" are pill pushers.(treat anything with pills,then you have symptoms from those pills and now can we give you pills for those symptoms too)Come on spare me??????
I can tell you instances of in-law relatives that would be around today if???(they just stayed home)but I dont have the desire nor time to type it all.
Most doctors now a days forget they work for the PATIENT, not a slab house just trying to get 200 people in and out seeing them for 5 mins.Like I say, no one knows my body like me and maybe I might do some prescreening pretty soon(maybe not??)but that deceision will be mine and mine alone.Maybe Doc AJMD429 if you were on my plan I would go to you,but hear me friend I in the end would be the boss in regards to what I do with my body and life.You would have to accept that or (down the road) But thanks for the advice.well taken.
Dont get me wrong,I respect the Good Doctors, but I feel there are more worse doctors today(you have to search for a good one then you pay the full cost because of skipping the HMO stuff)than their ever have been before and its probably a lot to do with the Corporate Cost issue.(Making Money)so the bad ones I DONT respect or value thier opinion at all."My opinion" A BAD Doctor is worse than NO doctor.
Doc,I can tell you are a honest/caring/ GOOD Doctor and I would be LUCKY to have YOU! Regards!

silverbuzzard · Post by **silverbuzzard** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:25 pm

get some DMSO at health food store or by script in Michigan , Florida, Oregon
Made from tree cells and by -product of lumber industry, they used to pitch it till doctor Jacobs found out it releived pane and INFLAMATION = athritis. rub on 2 or3 times a day,and use moisterizer in between cuz it will dry skin.
After you slap it on[ the liquid is the cheapest and on net sales fro TULSA labs in OK is cheapest] you will taste it as it goes into bloodstream. THERE is the only danger , it is a "carrier" agent and will "carry" anything on skin THROUGH it to blood. Make sure you are not using poisons ie gunpowder etc before applying.
It works! Been using it on bad ankle for 30 years