Did a little casting recently... 44's and 45's

[O.S.O.K.]

When I cast bullets, I generally use two moulds and alternate back and forth - this produces a good "cadence" and good bullets.

This last time I decided to cast up some .430" 260 grain Keith bullets and some .452" 300 grain gc Keith type bullets (both RCBS as shown). These are lubed with Lee's Liquide Alox and sized in Lee sizer dies. I have some of the 44's loaded in 44 Specials over 7.5 Grains of Unique which should deliver about 950 fps from my revolvers. I used wheel weight alloy with one ingot of 30-1 lead to tin to help the bullets form - but needed to run the alloy a little hot anyway.




I'm expecting a new Ruger Blackhawk flat top in 44 Special to arrive today or tomorrow and hope to shoot it this coming weekend.

[rjohns94]

well done, my efforts just don't come out that well. how does the sizing and lube and gas check operation work?

[O.S.O.K.]

Thanks - it took me some time playing around when I first started to get things figured out.

With the Lee Liquid Alox, you place the bullets in a container and drizzle the lube over them (doesn't take much) and then tumble the bullets around to coat. You then place the sizing die in your press. There is a little ram that goes into the shell holder on the press ram. You then seat the gas check by hand, place the bullet on the die ram and push it nose first up through the die. This sizes the bullet and seats/crimps the gas check. The die container doubles as a catch-bin for the bullets. I really prefer this over the dedicated sizing tool. It produces a very good bullet and the sizer dies are only $20 or so. The biggest detraction to this method is if you use a standard lube - as you need to apply it to the bullet by hand before sizing. The Lee Liquid Alox has yet to fail me though... if you don't like it on the nose of the bullets, you can whipe it off of the loaded rounds with no effect on performance.

[mescalero1]

O.S.A.K.,
Your post got me to looking, I have a lot of sizing dies.
It is going to be fun to cast again, have not done it since my "starving student " days.

[O.S.O.K.]

I think that cast bullets are superior to jacketed in many ways. Not the least of which is that they can be pushed to the same velocity with lower pressure. Accuracy can be equal to jacketed. They also are lower cost and give great on-game performance.

Not to mention the pride in doing it yourself

[awp101]

Let me slug the bore of my .44 Marlin and I'll let you know which size to ship to me...

[mescalero1]

Back in those days it was the only way I could afford to shoot.

[O.S.O.K.]

Yep, they aren't subject to 'crazy hoarders' buying them all up either

And finally, they are easy on the barrel steel - great for older guns of all kinds. In fact, most pistols made before the 70's were designed specifically for lead bullets.

[JohndeFresno]

...With the Lee Liquid Alox, you place the bullets in a container and drizzle the lube over them (doesn't take much) and then tumble the bullets around to coat. You then place the sizing die in your press....

Thank you, O-sock.

I have read several explanations in various periodicals and books of how the Lee sizing dies, and other sizing systems, work. They are either vague, confusing, or overly long as to the actual details of how to load the boolits into the presses and the steps that you take to produce a round. Several reloading books left me scratching my head as to how the top punch is used, if it is interchangeable with other dies, and the like.

In the last two years I have been considering rolling my own pills, your short explanation is by far the best, clearest, most concise explanation of the process.

In fact, I have decided that if I get into creating my own boolits for my .44 Mag and for the thutty-thutty, I'm going to buy the Lee sizer dies, use the Liquid Alox, and prepare the bullets in the inexpensive but practical aluminum dies that Lee manufactures for each caliber. It's now just a matter of whether I will have the time to expand my interests to this aspect of the reloading hobby this next fiscal year (when I completely retire).

I appreciated your information, and that of other reloaders here.

[JustaJeepGuy]

...the inexpensive but practical aluminum dies that Lee manufactures...

Lee's dies are steel, their bullet molds are aluminum.

[O.S.O.K.]

JohnFresno - thanks. Just so you know, I used RCBS molds for these bullets. They are made of steel and aren't especially inexpensive but they along with Lyman are the best mass-produced molds going IMHO and if cared for will last practially forever.

I do use Lee loading die sets though and other than a rough expander in one set they have been excellent and produce just as good a round as any other dies that I have (RCBS, Hornady and Redding).

[JohndeFresno]

Lee's dies are steel, their bullet molds are aluminum.

Thanks for catching the error, Jeep -
I used the wrong word there. I meant that the aluminum molds by Lee appeal to me the most.

[JustaJeepGuy]

I kinda wondered about that...I'm with ya on the Lee molds, too.

[awp101]

Several reloading books left me scratching my head as to how the top punch is used, if it is interchangeable with other dies, and the like.

OK, so what IS a top punch and how is it used? I'm serious. I've heard of and seen them but I've never seen one in use.

[J Miller]

...With the Lee Liquid Alox, you place the bullets in a container and drizzle the lube over them (doesn't take much) and then tumble the bullets around to coat. You then place the sizing die in your press....

Thank you, O-sock.

I have read several explanations in various periodicals and books of how the Lee sizing dies, and other sizing systems, work. They are either vague, confusing, or overly long as to the actual details of how to load the boolits into the presses and the steps that you take to produce a round. Several reloading books left me scratching my head as to how the top punch is used, if it is interchangeable with other dies, and the like.

In the last two years I have been considering rolling my own pills, your short explanation is by far the best, clearest, most concise explanation of the process.

In fact, I have decided that if I get into creating my own boolits for my .44 Mag and for the thutty-thutty, I'm going to buy the Lee sizer dies, use the Liquid Alox, and prepare the bullets in the inexpensive but practical aluminum dies that Lee manufactures for each caliber. It's now just a matter of whether I will have the time to expand my interests to this aspect of the reloading hobby this next fiscal year (when I completely retire).

I appreciated your information, and that of other reloaders here.

John and awp,

The top punch on an RCBS or Lyman bullet sizer is a punch that is shaped internally to match the shape of the bullet nose. These sizers size the bullet base down. So you put the bullet on the top of the movable center in the sizing die, then you lower the ram which has the top punch in the bottom. Held in by a simple hex head screw. When the top punch contacts the bullet nose it pushes the bullet base first into the die and it's sized. There is a handle on the top of the lube chamber that is connected to a long threaded rod. The rod is free to rotate. At the top of this rod there is a steel disc that has two o-rings. As the rod is rotated by the handle the disc puts pressure on the lube in the chamber forcing it through passages in the sizer body, and the sizing die to the bullet. But adjusting the depth the bullet enters the die, you can adjust how much and where the lube gets to the bullet.

On the Lee sizer, you thread the sizing die into the hole you would normally put your cartridge loading dies. There is a flat ended punch that snaps into the top of the ram where the shell holder normally goes. With the sizing die in the press you take the plastic holder the dies come into and set it on top of the die. Then you put the bullet on top of the punch and raise the ram. This pushes the bullet into the sizing die. After two or three bullets they come out the top and fall into the recepticle formed by the plastic container. Very simple.
The Lee sizer does not lube the bullets. To lube them you either need to do it before by using the LLA lube or pan lubing and / or after depending how you want to do it.

Very simple.

Hope this helps some.

Joe

[JohndeFresno]

Joe, after all of these years, I finally understand precisely how the process works - for both setups. You and O-sock would have done well to put your descriptions into some of the top end reloading manuals - lots of pics but terse or confusing text, as I stated earlier.

Thanks - from me and I'm sure from several lurkers out there.

[BenT]

I just cast some Ranchdog bullets last night. In case you didn't know Ranchdog is closing shop. Ranch dog has excellent demostrations of the Lee lubing process. He has a forum on Marlinowners site. But the big thing about Ranch dog is that his molds and sizing dies are custom from Lee and are set up for Marlin rifles . So if you want to get good accuracy out of your 444 I would buy a .432 sizing die from RD.

I don't have picks but I cast RD molds of 265gr .432 , 170gr .323 , and 235gr .379. I also cast about 600 90gr .314 for my 32's pistols. These bullets dropped at .3135 and I'm not sure if I'm going to size them or not.

I just starting casting and I'm hitting it hard. No finished product yet . I've gone through 30lbs of WW so far. I just picked up 4lbs of beeswax from the Amish. I'm going to try Sixguns lube. Next I need to purchase some gaschecks.

[O.S.O.K.]

Well, got out to the range today to shoot my new Ruger 44 special and also see how the Smith 696 would like the keith bullet loads.

Well, I can say that plain based bullets are a different thing than gas check bullet - they need more lube. The keith bullets shot well enough but they leaded up my barrels - first time this has happend with Lee Liq Alox for me - but it's also the first time I've used it on plain based bullets.

The remaining bullets are now drying with a second coat of the lube. That should do the trick.

[O.S.O.K.]

I was reminded on another thread (range report on the Ruger 44 Special) that I need to shoot some jacketed bullets out of the Ruger to burnish/season the barrel = and then clean with JB paste or similar - that's probably a contributor to the Ruger's leading with the keith bullets but the Smith 696 also had some leading with them - not nearly as much - which supports the need for seasoning the bores.

[awp101]

John and awp,

The top punch on an RCBS or Lyman bullet sizer is a punch that is shaped internally to match the shape of the bullet nose. These sizers size the bullet base down. So you put the bullet on the top of the movable center in the sizing die, then you lower the ram which has the top punch in the bottom. Held in by a simple hex head screw. When the top punch contacts the bullet nose it pushes the bullet base first into the die and it's sized. There is a handle on the top of the lube chamber that is connected to a long threaded rod. The rod is free to rotate. At the top of this rod there is a steel disc that has two o-rings. As the rod is rotated by the handle the disc puts pressure on the lube in the chamber forcing it through passages in the sizer body, and the sizing die to the bullet. But adjusting the depth the bullet enters the die, you can adjust how much and where the lube gets to the bullet.

On the Lee sizer, you thread the sizing die into the hole you would normally put your cartridge loading dies. There is a flat ended punch that snaps into the top of the ram where the shell holder normally goes. With the sizing die in the press you take the plastic holder the dies come into and set it on top of the die. Then you put the bullet on top of the punch and raise the ram. This pushes the bullet into the sizing die. After two or three bullets they come out the top and fall into the recepticle formed by the plastic container. Very simple.
The Lee sizer does not lube the bullets. To lube them you either need to do it before by using the LLA lube or pan lubing and / or after depending how you want to do it.

Very simple.

Hope this helps some.

Joe

OK, so if I'm reading this correctly the bullet is placed nose first on the top punch and run through the sizer base first (IOW upside down). If you wanted to size nose first you would use a different set up and not seed the top punch, correct?

[O.S.O.K.]

Andrew, the standard bullet sizers are designed to push the bullet down through the lubricator die bottom-first. The shape of the top punch is critical to keeping the bullet squared up. It needs to match the bullet nose shape. Though, a flat nose punch will often be the best regardless of the bullet nose shape.

The Lee dies go into a standard reloading press and are desgined to push the bullet up nose first through the die.

I don't think it's practical to flip the bullets over in the standard sizer/lubricators unless you don't apply lube - and then you'd need a special flat top punch.

[J Miller]

John and awp,

The top punch on an RCBS or Lyman bullet sizer is a punch that is shaped internally to match the shape of the bullet nose. These sizers size the bullet base down. So you put the bullet on the top of the movable center in the sizing die, then you lower the ram which has the top punch in the bottom. Held in by a simple hex head screw. When the top punch contacts the bullet nose it pushes the bullet base first into the die and it's sized. There is a handle on the top of the lube chamber that is connected to a long threaded rod. The rod is free to rotate. At the top of this rod there is a steel disc that has two o-rings. As the rod is rotated by the handle the disc puts pressure on the lube in the chamber forcing it through passages in the sizer body, and the sizing die to the bullet. But adjusting the depth the bullet enters the die, you can adjust how much and where the lube gets to the bullet.

On the Lee sizer, you thread the sizing die into the hole you would normally put your cartridge loading dies. There is a flat ended punch that snaps into the top of the ram where the shell holder normally goes. With the sizing die in the press you take the plastic holder the dies come into and set it on top of the die. Then you put the bullet on top of the punch and raise the ram. This pushes the bullet into the sizing die. After two or three bullets they come out the top and fall into the recepticle formed by the plastic container. Very simple.
The Lee sizer does not lube the bullets. To lube them you either need to do it before by using the LLA lube or pan lubing and / or after depending how you want to do it.

Very simple.

Hope this helps some.

Joe

OK, so if I'm reading this correctly the bullet is placed nose first on the top punch and run through the sizer base first (IOW upside down). If you wanted to size nose first you would use a different set up and not seed the top punch, correct?

No, you're reading it wrong. In both sizing presses the bullet is placed base down.
RCBS = bullet goes base down on top of the center punch of the sizing die.
Lee = bullet goes base down on top of the punch attached to the press ram.

The RCBS press uses the ram at the top to push the bullet base first into the sizing die, with the top punch guiding the bullet in straight.

The Lee press uses the press ram at the bottom to push the bullet nose first up into the sizing die.

Is that a bit better?? If not I'll try again.

Joe

[awp101]

Is that a bit better?? If not I'll try again.

Joe

Actually it is, thanks!

I was thinking in terms on my Forester Co-Ax since I don't have the Lee or RCBS and I think it would work a little differently. Either way, I'm going to dig through some books and see if I can put some pics with your description now.