33 WCF questions
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- Levergunner 1.0
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:13 pm
33 WCF questions
I just picked up a 1886 in 33 WCF and have a few questions on loads for this great old gun. It's been checked out by a gunsmith.
Has anyone tried the custom loaded ammo from Buffalo Arms or Old Western Scrounger? If so what do you think of them.
What do you think of the Hawk bullets for the 33?
Has anyone tried Trail Boss or 5744 in the 33 with cast bullets?
Also, any recommended handload data or anyother info on the 33 WCF is greatly appreciated.
Has anyone tried the custom loaded ammo from Buffalo Arms or Old Western Scrounger? If so what do you think of them.
What do you think of the Hawk bullets for the 33?
Has anyone tried Trail Boss or 5744 in the 33 with cast bullets?
Also, any recommended handload data or anyother info on the 33 WCF is greatly appreciated.
Re: 33 WCF questions
Welcome to the forum. The .33 WCF shooters will be along in a moment.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
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- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 4421
- Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:33 pm
- Location: Wyoming and Arizona
Re: 33 WCF questions
28.5 grains 4198 with Hornady 200 grain spire point, you have to load one in mag at a time. Hornady no longer makes the flat point.
25.0 grains 4198 with 200 grain cast lead gas check. I use these exclusively now. I have about 600 left from 2000 I got from a guy on ebay, dont know where I will get any more. Gas checks now hard to find.
25.0 grains 4198 with 200 grain cast lead gas check. I use these exclusively now. I have about 600 left from 2000 I got from a guy on ebay, dont know where I will get any more. Gas checks now hard to find.
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- Levergunner 2.0
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- Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:36 pm
- Location: Alaska
Re: 33 WCF questions
I think I heard something about Hornady offering those gas checks again. Could be I heard incorrectly, but worth checking. I have heard that 47grs. +/-.5 of H-4350 and the 200gr. Hornady FP's (if you can find them) works quite well. Be careful of Hornady's load manual for this round......it's very hot.
"Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not used one or is un-wittingly commenting on their marksmanship." Phil Shoemaker
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- Advanced Levergunner
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- Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:33 pm
- Location: Wyoming and Arizona
Re: 33 WCF questions
ArcticGoose wrote:I think I heard something about Hornady offering those gas checks again. Could be I heard incorrectly, but worth checking. I have heard that 47grs. +/-.5 of H-4350 and the 200gr. Hornady FP's (if you can find them) works quite well. Be careful of Hornady's load manual for this round......it's very hot.
Sounds very warm indeed I would be very leery of that, or anything even approaching that.
Re: 33 WCF questions
I don't shoot cast through my .33s, but have shot the Hornady 200 FP for many years. Now that lead is outlawed, I'll have to find some other alternative bullet. Hopefully, an enterprising company will start making lead free .338 FPs. The .33 WCF was a high velocity smokeless load from it's introduction, and the nickel steel barrels are super strong, as is the 1886 action. There are many powders that suit this cartridge and MV can be from mild to wild. My hunting loads poop along at around 2400 FPS, using IMR 4064. I'm using Starline .45-70 cases formed to .33. Most any good cases by Remington or Winchester will also suffice nicely. I use a .33 WCF case forming die to start the taper and shoulder, followed by the .33 sizing die to finish making the case. Numerous good loads can be found for the .33 Winchester from several sources available on the net and in printed form.
"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale, and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or hanged"....President Abraham Lincoln
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- Advanced Levergunner
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- Location: Wyoming and Arizona
Re: 33 WCF questions
Hey, ArticGoose, thanks for the lead on the gas checks. I went to the Hornady website and they did indeed have them listed, so I ordered a thou, which will see me through. Remains to be seen how long it will take to get them. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever think I would pay $41.00 including shipping for a lousy box of gas checks. Last ones I bought I think I payed $12.00 or so.
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- Levergunner 2.0
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- Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:36 pm
- Location: Alaska
Re: 33 WCF questions
I got the H-4350 load from a avid Winchester shooter who hunts with his 86's on a regular basis. I'm told this load is a slight modification to Venturino's load (48grs. H-4350 in "Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West) and works well for him. Haven't tested it enough myself, waiting for warmer weather. I don't believe Venturino's loads are too hot but as always, each gun is different. Not sure what Hornady's load is (to lazy to go look it up) but was told it was to be avoided.
"Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not used one or is un-wittingly commenting on their marksmanship." Phil Shoemaker
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- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: 33 WCF questions
I just went over to LoadData.com and looked at over 90 published loads for the .33WCF. There are NO loads even close to what you guys are talking about. Let's be careful out there!!
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- Levergunner 2.0
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Re: 33 WCF questions
In Venturino's book he say's in regard to Hornady's published loads that they would "...freeze up my .33 WCF to the point that two hands were required to force open the lever". His load for the 33WCF is 48grs H-4350 which give him a velocity of 1,957 fps. With this load he says "Instantly, my 33WCF problems ended".
"Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not used one or is un-wittingly commenting on their marksmanship." Phil Shoemaker
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- Levergunner 2.0
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:36 pm
- Location: Alaska
Re: 33 WCF questions
By the way, welcome to the campfire 33wcfshooter!
"Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not used one or is un-wittingly commenting on their marksmanship." Phil Shoemaker
Re: 33 WCF questions
The old standby load of 42/3031 makes all three of my .33s hard to open. Two of them are 1935 guns, so 'ya can't say they are too old to shoot. 46.5/IMR 4064 is a darn good load for me. I'll have to consult my load data and chrono stats to note all of the loads. I have also used 2015, 4320 and 4350 with good results.
"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale, and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or hanged"....President Abraham Lincoln
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- Levergunner 1.0
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:13 pm
Re: 33 WCF questions
Thanks for the answers and the welcome.It's great to find a site for us levergun fans. I hope to get some 33 shells loaded in a couple of weeks so I'll post some results soon. Thanks again for the help and if you want to share anything about the 33 WCF (reloading tips,hunting stories) I'd really like to hear them.
Re: 33 WCF questions
How about some REAL .33 WCF ammo?
"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale, and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or hanged"....President Abraham Lincoln
Re: 33 WCF questions
welcome to the forum
Mike Johnson,
"Only those who will risk going too far, can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Eliot
"Only those who will risk going too far, can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Eliot
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- Levergunner 1.0
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:13 pm
Re: 33 WCF questions
What do you think of IMR 3031 in the 33 with a cast bullet? I just read Ken Waters article and he recommended 35 gr. of 3031 with a lyman 338320 bullet. This same load is also listed on Loaddata.com but for RCBS 33-200. Can't find out if it's a max load for cast.Should I drop down (10%) and start at 32 grs.?Also, just read in the Winchester Levergun Legacy book by Williamson he recommended cutting the tip off of 210 gr. 338 Nosler partitions for use in the 33 and said it worked great on whitetails. Has anybody tried this?
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- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: 33 WCF questions
I once made some flattips out of some Hornady 200 grain spire points. I put a 30-30 trim die in my press and run the bullet up into the die using a dowel between the top of the ram and the bottom of the bullet. Nicked the tip off with a file, worked very slick indeed. I then started using cast and never got around to making any more.
Re: 33 WCF questions
I suppose that I should put in my 2 bits here on the .33 questions and answers . I own a 33 also. It is a takedown. The original owner was an old Game Warden out of Ananconda, Montana and I am the 2nd owner. I found that 36 grains of 3031--in my rifle--works very well with a MV of 1920fps. but the best load that I use is 53.0 grains of the OLD STYLE 4831 that I had pulled out of an old gun magazine and I had quite a bit of that powder. The MV listed is 2033fps. The best group that was shot was a 1.4" group at 100 yards. This is what I use for hunting and that 4 point Bull really didn't mind one darn bit when it was tested on him about 4 years ago. Too stiffened up now to repeat that performance again as crawling in all that downfall did me in. I also found that the Rapine bullet and the RCBS bullet will perform quite well--again--in my rifle. the only problem that I ran into was that when I fell, then, that plastic original butt plate cracked on me. Got a M71 steel one and that solved the problem as it fit right on without any further fitting. Hope this stuff has helped someone.
Re: 33 WCF questions
Just a couple of tips on reloading for the .33WCF. Model 86's are not rigid like front locking lug bolt guns. Cases will stretch just a bit and if you full-length resize every time, you will get case head separation and short case life. Make sure you trim cases when needed. Don't get carried away with bullet crimping, else you'll buckle the shoulder of the case. If Lee makes a factory crimp die for .33WCF, that would be my first choice. Good luck.
- 450 Fuller
- Levergunner 2.0
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:00 pm
- Location: Mid AK-Mid AL-New Mexico
Re: 33 WCF questions
The 1886 in 33 WCF was the fore runner of the Model 71. I like to to open up old dead threads
and revive them with gunsmoke!
Since I have 3 -1886 rifles in 33 WCF, have learned a thing or two. Still have 4 boxes of the old Hornady
200 gr FP jacketed InterLok bullets. They are better bullets than those originally available
years ago in the early 1900s.
Hornady data is OK, but I do not push the velocity past 1950-2000 FPS. In other words
I try to duplicate factory pressure and ballistics. Around 29-30 grs of IMR 4198 Works.
IMR 4198 is mentioned in the Hornady manuals. Hawk also makes a good FP 200 gr bullet for
the 33 WCF. The Hawk bullet is kind to barrels and I have killed deer and Moose in AK with them in the M-71 348.
Ben Lilly, famous NM bear and cat hunter, used the 1886 in 33 WCF and killed
grizzlies and mountain lion. Another slick little number is to load up 5 or ten 210 grain Nosler Partitions
as is- for the first shot on anything big like moose or bear. Put one in the chamber, followed by
Hornady or Hawk FP bullets. Be CAREFUL with gas checks on cast bullets. If the GC gets loose below the neck
into the powder, pressures respond negatively as in a blocked case/ barrel. Not good.
and revive them with gunsmoke!
Since I have 3 -1886 rifles in 33 WCF, have learned a thing or two. Still have 4 boxes of the old Hornady
200 gr FP jacketed InterLok bullets. They are better bullets than those originally available
years ago in the early 1900s.
Hornady data is OK, but I do not push the velocity past 1950-2000 FPS. In other words
I try to duplicate factory pressure and ballistics. Around 29-30 grs of IMR 4198 Works.
IMR 4198 is mentioned in the Hornady manuals. Hawk also makes a good FP 200 gr bullet for
the 33 WCF. The Hawk bullet is kind to barrels and I have killed deer and Moose in AK with them in the M-71 348.
Ben Lilly, famous NM bear and cat hunter, used the 1886 in 33 WCF and killed
grizzlies and mountain lion. Another slick little number is to load up 5 or ten 210 grain Nosler Partitions
as is- for the first shot on anything big like moose or bear. Put one in the chamber, followed by
Hornady or Hawk FP bullets. Be CAREFUL with gas checks on cast bullets. If the GC gets loose below the neck
into the powder, pressures respond negatively as in a blocked case/ barrel. Not good.