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Hi there. I'm looking to add a revolver to my lineup and thought I'd poll the group. After some initial research here are some of my thoughts:
-- I'm not looking for pocket carry, so super lightweight, small size is not an issue (although I don't want a 2 1/2# gun sitting on my waist all day either)
-- Looking for more of a general purpose gun, that could be carried in an IWB, or as my one and only bug out gun (so not just SD)
-- Trying to decide between .357 and .44; this gun will be a back-up CCW as well as a "woods" gun for fishing and camping trips, so there is the possibility (though slim) for black bear protection
-- Since I will be in Nat'l Parks, I will have to carry concealed, which has implications for size & weight. So, my Blackhawk in .44 is not really appropriate (hence, the search)
-- I think I would like 3" with adjustable sights (option for night sights a plus), for the flexibility in non-SD situations (e.g., shooting squirrels...lol); a 4" may be an option, but it has issues for ease of IWB carry
-- Prefer 6 (or 7) shots to 5
-- Would like a reasonable grip that I could get my hand around
I have looked at a number of .357 S&W models -- 60, 686, 386PD, 10, 642/442/342, etc. but can't decide. The airweights are limited to .38 and +P (thought the 386 shoots .357), and have 5 shots (as does the 60). I like the 686 Plus in 3", but it's 2.3 lbs in weight (unloaded). I also know Taurus and others make comparable models, and the Ruger SP101 has a good reputation. I also have looked at the lightweight .44's, like the Taurus 444 and the S&W 329PD. While they meet the weight requirement, I'm concerned about the frame size for CC and the recoil of a .44 mag in such a light pistol. I'd like to spend under $500 for one, even if I have to buy it used. Also, not sure about the 6- vs. 7-shot cylinders. Any issues with strength over time of the 7-shot cylinders?
So, what are my options and which would you choose?
"From birth 'til death...we travel between the eternities." -- Print Ritter in Broken Trail
One of the sp101's in the 32 federal ought to just about fit the bill, especially if you carried a pocket full of 32 h&r's.
With alot of the criteria you've laid down a commander sized 1911 would seem a better choice than a revolver.
Maybe a Charter Firearms 44 Special with the 3" barrel would do it. It can be loaded for bear - or downloaded for targets and small game. I have successfully used it to shoot squirrels out to 15 yards or so and it is great at close range for rabbits and squirrels with the CCi shotshells with #9 shot. The gun is very concealable for its size and the weight is under 2 pounds regardless of which model CA 44 spl you choose. Also, CA has revolvers available now in .40 S&W and 45 ACP ! Neither is ideal for bear defense or small game but either will do the job.
I have had the S&W 642. It was a bit light and I like to shoot more than I thought that it would handle. Not sure if you have thought about it or not, but a S&W M19 would be nice. If I intended to carry it the way your thinking IMO a 3" round butt version would be very nice. I think the M60 is already available in the 3" and a round butt, but it only holds 5 rds. Either of the two would make a very nice choice. The 686 is a nice piece, but its a bit much for a concealed carry alternate.
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Although I only have the Mdl 65-4 SB, S&W made and the FBI carried for a long time the Mdl 65-3 RB. 6 shots, .357, stainless and no adjustable sights to hang up or get knocked out of alignment. Mine was my duty carry weapon for many years... never failed and with good +P+ ammo, plenty gun.
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I have a S&W 637 airweight 38+p (has the hammer), and a Taurus 444 Multi.
I really like both of these revolvers. The 637 I carry when doing things like mountain biking, CCW around town under a t-shirt, etc. Very pleasant revolver to carry.
The Taurus 444 is my out and about in the woods revolver. I purchased this one after deciding that I didn't like carrying my SuperBlackhawk, but still wanted the 44Mag for the woods. Although it is half the weight of the Blackhawk, I would rate it's felt recoil the same. Recoil was one of my biggest worries with this before buying, but I was pleasantly surprised how well the Hogue grip tames this light revolver.
Further, it is a pleasure to carry, you really don't even notice it, because of this, I carry it all the time out in the woods without fail, just part of getting dressed. It has also held up well for me, through multiple creek dunkings, etc.
The most I have put it through in a day out is 100-150rnds (stout H110, lasercast 240gr RNFP loads), without cleaning. Performed with no issues.
Hope this helps, if you have any questions on either revolver, just ask.
Hobie wrote:Seems to me that the bear thing kinda limits your choices. FWIW, I've successfully carried an SA .45 Colt concealed.
I agree. That said, you're also limiting yourself with the weight limit. Most handguns your looking for are either going to be fairly light and small caliber, or medium sized and appropriate caliber. At least in my book when I'm looking for bear medicine. A 357 does great for a lot of critters out of a rifle, but out of a handgun I wouldn't want to meet an angry mother black bear with a 357. I like bigger bullets which equals a bigger gun.
Amen to the s&w model 19 in 4". That is from the availability standpoint and $500 limit. Hard to beat. Do most your shooting with .38 specials and carry 158 gr .357s for defence. There have been reports of force cone cracking with a lot of 125 gr .357s with a lot of shooting. There are also versions in the model 66 that is in stainless same as model 19. I have this 66-3 with night sight, ported 3" that is my favorite in that catagory. Also own a s&w model 24 4" in .44 special. It has the slim not straight heavy barrel that keeps it light and portable. Both are sweethearts to carry, my favorites, and belive me, I have many to choose from. These two are the best!
Sorry, my pictures were too wide, here is a thumb nail of the 66-3.
If you have some stout .357 180 grain hardcast, the bear thing should be ok on black bear. I would feel better with a S&W Mountain Gun in .44 or .45, though. I would prolly be carrying a .45acp with 230gr hardball.
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All good points. And I agree that the "do everything" pistol is probably not a realistic criteria. I like the Model 60 in 3" (my brother has one), and it would be a good choice for CCW. On the other hand, the Taurus 444 might be a better woods gun, and has the capability to handle bear. Having said that, I think the bear thing is probably a lessor criteria...I really don't want to shoot one, and I suspect that they will run from at first sight in most instances. However, my buddy whom I plan to go camping/fishing with, had a couple run-ins with bears when he last went (Shenandoah Nat'l Park), including getting between a sow and her cub. So, it can happen.
So I guess I need both, huh?
"From birth 'til death...we travel between the eternities." -- Print Ritter in Broken Trail
alnitak wrote:All good points. And I agree that the "do everything" pistol is probably not a realistic criteria. I like the Model 60 in 3" (my brother has one), and it would be a good choice for CCW. On the other hand, the Taurus 444 might be a better woods gun, and has the capability to handle bear. Having said that, I think the bear thing is probably a lessor criteria...I really don't want to shoot one, and I suspect that they will run from at first sight in most instances. However, my buddy whom I plan to go camping/fishing with, had a couple run-ins with bears when he last went (Shenandoah Nat'l Park), including getting between a sow and her cub. So, it can happen.
So I guess I need both, huh?
Pepper spray will likely cause you a lot less legal hassle, if you did get into a bear confrentation within one of the National Parks.Coupled with paying a good bit of attention to what's around you.
Hobie wrote:Seems to me that the bear thing kinda limits your choices.
+1
I'd opt for a .357 in 3" or 4" or the .44 Special 5-shot in 3" or 4" (or a 1911 pattern .45 ACP) for 'most times' - but if you really think you might be approached by an angry BEAR, I'd switch to, or add along, another gun. If you wanted to add a 2-shot derringer in .45-70 or something arm-breaking, that might do as 'backup' (but if it was a bear, I'd use it FIRST and save the .357 for suicide if the bear ripped me in two and I didn't die right away). If you wanted the other gun for 'bear' times to be more substantial, I'd not settle for anything with less of a power level than a really HOT load out of a .44 Mag Redhawk.
Actually, if I thought a bear attack was likely, and staying home wasn't an option, I'd either tote my .45-70 Guide Gun, a Mossberg pump 12 gauge with slugs, or a BFR in .444 Marlin, assuming I couldn't afford the .50 Barrett I've always wanted! I guess I'm just chicken of bears...
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Boy, some mighty fine looking wheel guns. I really like that 66-3, though the 19 is classic. A couple of you have mentioned a .44 special snubbie. They also appeal to me. But would you choose that or .357 for bear (assuming you couldn't have .44 mag)?
[The more I read, the more I think I should just ignore the bear thing and stick wih .357, so the above question may be moot.]
"From birth 'til death...we travel between the eternities." -- Print Ritter in Broken Trail
Asmic, If you realisticly take bears out of the equasion, any 3 or 4 inch .357 or .44 special would be the ticket. I would look also at the S&Ws in models 21 & 22 would be nice. They are RB, pencil barrels. Retail will give you a nose bleed, but I have seen two of them in nickle really go for $620. They are in .44 special and .45 acp. Fine looking guns!
another vote for the 4" .357. if bears are a concern, load it with buffaloe bore 180 grain hardcast. in a close up, defenseve shooting, their probablly as effective as any other handgun caliber. if i was to HUNT a bear with a handgun, i'd look again to buffaloe bore .44 mag.320 hardcast.
I have a 4" S&W Model 66 with Packmyr grips. I've carried it concealed, shot it in competition,
and just plinked around with it. It shoots everything from 38 target loads to 357s more
accurately than I can. Great trigger. It might be a little bit light for black bear if you were
out hunting 'em, but up close and personal, with 158 gr JSP, it would probably be enough to
save your life. Lots of game has been taken with the 357. A 44 Mag loaded with hot 44
Specials might be better for social work, and 44 Mag would be better for bear, but it's
bigger and heavier for concealed carry. I think the 357 is a good compromise.
If you are not going to pack a Peacemaker, the Perfect Packing Pistol is the Smith & Wesson Model 19 combat Masterpiece or it's stainless steel offspring the Model 66 Stainless Combat Masterpiece.
The Model 19/66 with a 4" barrel is light enough to carry comfortably all day in an IWB holster, strong side belt holster, a shoulder-holster (with comfortable straps) or in a fanny pack. Even with a 4" barrel it is compact enough that it can be easily concealed in even light clothing, if you plan your wardrobe properly.
It might not hold up as well to a steady diet of heavy hunting loads as a Ruger Blackhawk or even an S&W M-686, but it will handle enough of them to familiarize yourself and it will probably outlast you when fed mostly .38 SPL or mid-range .357 Magnum loads.
The .357 Magnum is a little lite for a bear gun, but it beats throwing rocks or trying to gouge ol' Bre'r Bruin's eyes out with your thumbs. It is the near perfect manstopper, and with light loads can be a fine small game gun.
The next Model 19 I encounter that is not accurate and reliable will be the first I encounter. I like the Model 19 and I trust them. If I didn't, I'd not have given one to my Mom for her bedside gun
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More good choices! I like the one horsesoldier pointed out. There's another one, same model, for a little less as well. I also like the NightGuard series in .41 mag (and .44 mag as well), since several of you pointed out the 10mm. The Models 21/22, 24/25 and 29 are approaching 40 oz and may be a little heavy for my purposes. I'm encouraged by the assurances that a 4" Model 19 or 66 would be OK to carry concealed, and will probably meet my shooting needs.
Regarding the bear, if I go hunting for one, I have the Blackhawk in .44 mag. However, it's nice to know that in a life and death situation, even a .357 with heavy bullets has a chance of being effective.
I also found a Charter Arms Bulldog in .44 special for half of what the Smiths would cost. I know some of you have the Bulldog. How is it? Any issues with reliability?
Thanks all for the input...it is helping in my decision.
Last edited by alnitak on Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"From birth 'til death...we travel between the eternities." -- Print Ritter in Broken Trail
Tycer wrote:If you like Smiths, a 4" model 19 would be my choice.
+1. If I could only have one gun - God forbid - it would be my father's old service revolver, the S&W Model 19. Best general-purpose revolver around. I'd go with the 66 if it was likely to be exposed to the elements a lot.
I prefer a S&W Mountain Gun in either .44mag or .45 Colt. The .44 is more versatile because you can down load with .44 specials and still have good power, but have the .44 mag as back up. Another possible choice is the newest S&W light weight .44 mag made of titanium or something (mdl. 329?) Very interesting piece and not that bad to shoot with heavy loads. I prefer the S&W magnum grips that fit everything including the 500.
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My pick would be a Smith & Wesson model 696. 3", stainless, 5 shot, 44 special. Or my Ruger 44 mag stainless 4-5/8" Bisley. Autos aren't on my list, but IF I had to it would be a 1911 or Glock Model 21SF in 45ACP. Thanks, Tom
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Just be sure to buy a good gun belt and a good holster that fits the gun belt and you won't notice the weight.
There have been times I've gone more than 48 hours without removing my Tex Shoemaker gun belt and holster carrying a 41-ounce Mofdel 686, two speedloaders, a radio, nightstick flashlight, and cuff case, I got awfully tired but not from packing my six-gun.
A good properly fitting belt and holster will spread the weight and make it almost unnoticeable and easy to carry. A good belt and holster also makes it easier to conceal a revolver as well.
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alnitak wrote:I also found a Charter Arms Bulldog in .44 special for half of what the Smiths would cost. I know some of you have the Bulldog. How is it? Any issues with reliability?
I have one. Not shot a WHOLE bunch, but no reliability problems; just can't fire lead bullets. I'm sure the barrel's not oversized, but the barrel leads like you wouldn't believe. Chamber mouths seem okay, too. I don't know what the problem is, so I stick to jacketed bullets.
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I'm with Tycer and the others who vote for the S&W 19 4". It's hard to find that much power in a more compatable package. I guess old Bill Jordan knew what he was talking about.
I have mentioned on here in the last week or so that the 4" model 19 Smith is my all time favorite revolver and think it would serve you well. But I'll also mention the Ruger Security Six series guns, I've had extensive experience with them and have found them hard to beat. Roughly the same size and weight as the K-frame Smith, just as accurate, and I've never heard of any durability issues with them as has been mentioned with K-frames. You'll also probably find them at slightly less cost on the used gun market. Out of the box actions are not as smooth, but can easily be make so. They are very easy to take apart for action work or cleaning. I'm a big fan.
It may not be perfect for all your needs, but no gun collection is complete without a medium frame, 3" or 4" .357 Magnum. If you only had one gun, that's the one.
You aren't really saving anything going with an off-brand. Get a Smith, Colt or Ruger.
My favorite revolver was the 1976 Ruger 4" SS Security Six in 357 mag,I carried it hunting,backpacking & for self defense . It was very accurate ,easy to disassemble & clean!I got tradeitis swapping it for a Ruger #1 in 30-06 which I swapped for who knows what now.
My all round woods gun is a hybrid S and W that started life as a 45 Colt. I fitted a cylinder cut for full moon clips and chambered the gun for 45 Magnum cases. These are loaded ONLY to 45 Colt velocities and pressures. The gun also fires 45 Auto rim and 45 ACP. With 45 magnum brass and Colt loads i can push a 250 grain bullet at 1150 fps and the gun reloads as fast or faster than a semi auto. I can load everything from collar button bullets at 550 fps up to the big ones. The larger case allows me to load shot loads with either shot caps or with gas checks in the longer case. For plinkking I can shoot acp's and auto rims. No matter where I go I should be able to get factory ammo. Accuracy with the longer case is a little better than with the shoort acp's but any of them will shoot under 3" at 25 yards.
Before I made up this SPECIAL my woods gun was a 1950 45 acp with a 4" tube. I really like carrying full moon clips as relaod is fast and the ammo can be carried in either the pocket or a speed loader pouch. If you carry a 45 acp the average speed loader pouch will hold TWO full moons per pouch so a regular double pouch gives you 24 rounds in a compact carrier right at yor finger tips. And speaking of finger tips, if you shoot moons and are EXPECTING to have to reload just slip a moon load on to the pinkie of yout off hand. When the gun runs dry you can dump the empties and pull the spare rounds off yout finger and reload faster than a man can laod a 1911.
When you start talking about CCW I think you'd best go with a "K" frame S&W. Either a 3 or 4 inch. I'm partial to my 3" M65 but then I'm not all that crazy about adjustable sights. One more thing to go wrong ya know.
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You mentioned bears...recoil...somewhat concealable...under $500 (or at least not pricey).
Taurus produces several revolvers generally acknowledged as being of excellent quality. Their prices are lower than Smith and Colt and other high quality firearms. And I think that you would insult any type of bear - perhaps get him really mad - if you tried to dispatch the critter with anything less than a .44 caliber projectile.
First, though, I'd try one of the lighter models to see if its diminutive size and weight would allow a comfortable second or third shot with the rounds that you intend to use. I had planned on getting a .44 Charter Arms snubby until I repeatedly read how the small gun's trigger guard takes a vicious bite out of your middle finger with each shot, clearly affecting your aim and control, unless you put on a big, oversized Pachmyr or Mershon type grip. That works against its being an easily concealed, small and flat package. So I decided upon carrying a tiny .38 with fairly effective loads for certain occasions when I can't carry the .45 ACP.
, i'd probablly chose it over the .357.
