Reloading .32-20 Crimp Problem

LeverBar · Post by **LeverBar** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:20 am

For a reason that I can't figure out, the new Dillon 550B I set up this week will not put a crimp on the .32-20 cartridge strong enough to keep the bullet from slipping into the casing when I push it against the bench in a strength test.

In desperation, I even tried putting a roll crimp on it in station 3, and then the Lee Factory Crimp added in station 4. Still, can't get a consistent, reliable crimp.

Using regular RCBS Dies and LFC die.

Is there something about this press that is naturally a problem when attempting a crimp on this thin-walled cartridge?

Does the shell-plate differ in some way from a RCBS plate to where the die bottoms out prior to putting on a decent crimp?

I do have a set of RCBS Cowboy dies for this cartridge, but in my mind, I'm not seeing how they will make any difference.

That FCD is supposed to solve any such problems.

--Forgot to add: I loaded a gazzilion 9mm and a couple hundred .380 Auto prior to attempting the .32-20. They worked easily and well.

--Forgot also: Using Speer .312 100 grain JHP. (Sorry, I ran out of Laser Cast!--and I haven't learned how to pour my own.)

old goat · Post by **old goat** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:32 am

...It sounds like your dies are made to use a bullet diameter of .314, or at least .313. If so, the .312 diameter bullets are loose because the expander button is opening the neck for the larger diameter bullet. Check the diameter of the Laser Cast bullets you have been using to see if they were larger than the Speers currently being used. Crimp force alone does not guarantee a tight hold on bullets. Neck tension is also needed.

...old goat

LeverBar · Post by **LeverBar** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:49 am

The Laser Cast bullets are lead=.313.

Shouldn't the Lee Crimp Die take care of any excessive opening of the cartridge's throat?

41bear · Post by **41bear** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:24 am

LeverBar - What I'm about to say may have nothing to do with your problem but it may so here goes.

The 32/20 case has two different COL's, The Remington case is longer than the WW and the Starline. Remington is 1.315 and the WW and SL are 1.285 and my guess is that with a progressive you just might have a problem with the case COL.

Hope that helped and Merry Christmas. If not, well Merry Christmas anyway.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:13 am

Screw the Lee FC die down more. It will work.------Sixgun

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:18 am

Sixgun beat me to it.

On a side note, JnYork and I had problems with lead buildup around the case neck AFTER firing. We both have Marlin 1894CL's, I use Laser Cast bullets, and I think he does also. The problem was from too tight of a crimp. Once I backed off about a 1/2-2/3 of a turn the leading stopped. Just an fyi.

LeverBar · Post by **LeverBar** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:11 pm

I measured the brass and was using a consistent size to set up the dies. Maybe I should check the brass for a longer size and try that.--I was using the middle of the road size from our stash.

As for screwing the die in farther, at one point, the FCD was down so far, I might have been putting a bit too much pressure on it--bottoming out on the shell holder.

If the problem is the expander die, I have a set for the .25-20 also. While lying in bed this morning, I was wondering if slipping the .25-20 expander into the system might solve the problem. (But I'm also wondering if it will be too small.) I'll have to make a new attempt in the next few hours to test things again.

Wish the local shops carried lead for this rifle, I'd skip the jackets and likely be just fine with the crimp.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:49 pm

Maybe a .308 expander?

oldgerboy · Post by **oldgerboy** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:25 pm

Try running a case through the sizer die without the expander. Then measure what you have. That can give you a clue as to what might be needed.

LeverBar · Post by **LeverBar** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:49 pm

I do have a .308 expander, so.....maybe?

I'll get back at it this evening to see it these suggestions will work.

Comal Forge · Post by **Comal Forge** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:03 pm

I had a set of .44 Mag RCBS dies that would not quite reach the crimp roll inside the seating die. The case mouth flare from the expander would collapse but the crimp was always too loose to use the loaded shell in a tube magazine. The root cause was that the shell holder would always bottom out before the case mouth reached the proper spot to curl inward. Took me a couple sessions to figure this out but I finally chucked the die in a lathe and took off .100 from the bottom so I'd never have to worry about it.

LeverBar · Post by **LeverBar** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:07 pm

Now you're talkin'!

I hadn't thought of that, but it should work!
I don't have a lathe, but I do have a vice and a file.

If I can't get it to crimp with adjustments, I'll shave the base of the die.

LeverBar · Post by **LeverBar** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:42 am

I shaved a bit off the bottom of the seating die. Cartridges are crimped much better.

Papa · Post by **Papa** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:55 am

I had the same problem with Starline brass. The told me over the years mfg's got away from the original COL and that theirs were to the original SAAMI spec. I bought some Remington brass and got rid of the Starline.

Papa

cecil · Post by **cecil** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:22 am

Just got done loading several hundred 32-20, for a newer version Marlin, after doing some prelimiary experients earlier in the year. Had bought Starline cases, and even had to trim them back to 1.278 to be able to seat 100 grain Speer and Hornady xtps, with out jamming them into the rifling. Apparently the Marlin is short chambered, or very little lead to the rifling. Was forewarned of this, by an article in Handloader, and several internet postings.

Had to grind back the insert of a LFC die, in order to crimp them without buckling, or bottoming out on the base of die.

Also just got the New (less than 40 rounds fired) Marlin back from the factory, which was sent in for consistently jamming (to point of locking up up), tube spring way over powered and being short chambered. Appeared to have purchased one of their "mix-masters". They indicated replacement of the extractor, recoil spring and lifter. They also indicated they polished the chamber, but believe the chamber got re-cut closer to specs, or they actually cut or polished some leade into the rifling. It will now chamber lead and jacketed bullets closer to the Industry speced OAL, without jamming into the rifling. They did honor their warrnty, but had to pay shipping cost to them.

Might be some time till get to check it out, we are in middle of possibly 12 extra inches of snow falling.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:42 am

LeverBar wrote:I shaved a bit off the bottom of the seating die. Cartridges are crimped much better.

Wouldn't it have been better to shave off the top of the shell holder? I'd think that part is softer metal, and cheaper to replace if you mess it up.

LeverBar · Post by **LeverBar** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:29 pm

If it were an RCBS shell holder, maybe. I don't know what that would do to my other dies' performance.

The shell plate for the 550B, I'll use for other loading other calibers, so shaving it might mess up the function for those. Plus, The shape of the new plate makes it difficult to take off metal with the tools I have. And--there was much more room for error on the bottom of the die than on the top of a shell holder.