OT - Historically correct movies

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:27 am

Some of the recent posts about movies being either historically correct or not, pushed me to start another post as to hijacking someone else's. I prefer a movie that is as close as possible to the real deal. It literally drives me crazy to watch, let's say a western era movie made in 1880 (the movie dates itself), and the gears all wrong. It just kills it for me. That's one of the reasons I like "Tombstone". All of the gear in that movie is period correct. Down to the boots, hats, weapons and tack used.

Some movies I can let go and take it as pure entertainment. But, when they are portraying a bit of history, they should get right.

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:44 am

I like it to be accurate as well. I may not catch all the stuff like what you guys see, but every once in awhile I can.

I put it along the same lines as firearm mis-representations, i.e., cocking a gun a few times before ever getting around to firing it. Or, firing it a few times before ever getting around to cocking it. In either case the information is easily attainable but for some reason willingly neglected.

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:36 pm

I have to admit it bothers me quite a bit to see Colt SAAs in a movie involving the Civil War and immediately after. (Or 92 Winchesters for that matter).

Gun Smith · Post by **Gun Smith** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:07 pm

My favorite is the "actor" working the action of a rifle, shotgun, or pistol and pointing it at a person. You can hear the empty bolt or slide with no cartridge chambering sound effect.
My second peeve is, of course, the 250 round magazines on sub machineguns, or the Colt SAA 26 gun.
Thumbs up for Tombstone!

JB · Post by JB » Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:20 pm

20cows wrote:I have to admit it bothers me quite a bit to see Colt SAAs in a movie involving the Civil War and immediately after. (Or 92 Winchesters for that matter).

I watched a civil war movie the other day with George Hamilton and Max Bare Jr. where the confederates were carrying 92's and Colt SAAs. It makes you wonder how they lost?

Doc Hudson · Post by **Doc Hudson** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:51 pm

It gets worse and the producers of many John Wayne movies are among the worst offenders. I can well remember many movies set in the Gold Rush Era and even earlier, before Colt sixguns were real common and before Oliver Winchester moved on from making shirts, but every gunny in the picture were packing Peacemakers and Model 92 Winchesters.

Another thing that really burns me up are the detective novels where the author specifically mentions his hero easing off the safety of his revolver. I've been known to close the book and toss it in the trash when I encountered that particular form of idiocy.

As a matter of fact, I get a bit annoyed by the appearance that Colt was the only handgun maker in the Old West Period. I can count on one hand with four fingers left over the number of times I've seen or heard mention of a Merwin Hulbert sixgun or a Smith & Wesson sixgun, and never once sight ot mention of such widely used weapons as Marlin, Hopkins & Allen, or Savage. The only non-Colt sixgun I ever remember seeing were a few Remington Model 1875"s

Rifles are as bad if not worst. Sure you will sometimes see the hero with a muzzle-loader if the movie is set early enough, at least I've yet to see a Revolutionary War Era movie with everyone packing Winchesters or Trapdoor Springfields, but I might have missed that movie. Other than muzzle-loaders it seems to me that the only rifles you ever see in Westerns are various model Winchesters, mostly Model 92's with a few Model 1873's, Trapdoor Springfields or Sharps, with the very rare Spencer making an appearance. Until Tom Selleck started making his Westerns, I can only remember seeing a Remington-Keene bolt action in two movies (Sons of Kate Elder and Joe Kidd), and I never even saw an Evans until Wilfred Brimley carried one in Crossfire Trail.

I've gotten to the point that I try to ignore the glaring gaffes made by the movie properties department and just try to enjoy the storyline and acting. Doing anything else just gives me indigestion.

FWIW, IMO, Lonesome Dove was the most authentically equiped Western ever made for TV. When it first came out, I held many long discussions with Dr. John A. Carroll, a widely published Western historian about the authenticity of equipment, behaviors, and incidents. Dr. Carroll was highly impressed with the lengths the network went to use authentic clothing, weapons and horse gear. I'd even say that the network did a better job in the authenticity department than McMurtry did on his book. McMurtry clearly didn't even know that a Dutch Oven is cast iron rather than made of adobe bricks and he thought that a .44 Henry was a very powerful rifle.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:09 pm

The one that really makes me crazy is when some actor spins the open cylinder of a revolver and it clicks like a single action.

Some of the early WWII movies are funny too. I can't remember witch one it was but the Japanese soldiers were running around with Krag rifles!

jb

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:50 pm

I believe Wyatt threatened to turn Ike's head into a canoe with a Smith and Wesson in Tombstone. Clint Eastwood uses a number of period pieces in his films.

I enjoy seeing the "mistakes" as a point of hollywood movie making.

I recall one contrail in and old cowboy movie. The reality is they are movies which are fake to begin with.

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:51 pm

Ah yes 20 cows, The Undefeated and the Searchers.

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:53 pm

By the way, the first Rock and Roller was Elvis in 1865 in Love Me Tender which was to be released as The Reno Brothers before they decided to use the Song Title.

JustaJeepGuy · Post by **JustaJeepGuy** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:37 pm

Don't throw that detective novel away so fast, Doc. There are revolvers with safety catches. Not a lot, but they do exist.

bogus bill · Post by **bogus bill** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:00 pm

Go see "september dawn". Its about the mountain meadows massacure in 9-11-1857. (the 1st 9-11). The mormans and indians massacured a wagon train killing about 122 people. Jon Voight is in it. I have studied the incident as much as possible and the story line is accurate. Of course there was a love story built into it that I dont belive happened.
My wifes stepmother is a direct decendant of John Doyle Lee, the ONLY person exicuted for his part. Hence my intrest in the event. He deserved his exicution, but was the scapegoat for others that should have been shot too.
The movie is accurarte as far as it went but there was far more to the story. About 20+ kids that were to young to remember in the party were adopted by local mormans near cedar city.
This last thanksgiveing my wife and I went to southern california by my stepdaughters. Her fiances mother was there as was my stepmother. They never met before. In conversation we found that the woman was a decendant of one of the orphans saved from the massacure!

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:39 pm

Guys, if it were not for the repetition of goofs with the SAA & 92s we wouldn't have imprinted on them in our young and tender years.. thus we grew up knowing it had to be a Colt or Winchester we'd acquire once we had funds! Maybe we owe a lil thanks?

Get your hands on the silent movie with Buster Keaton "The General" In that film they half hearted tried to get some of the gear right by using the actual Locomotives used "The Great Locomotive Chase"( Loved the flying switches!). I don't know if they got their hands on the "Yonah"Loco or not but at least they did use the "General". I suspect the Union uniforms were authentic probably because they would have been surplussed out to Bannerman's and got for cheap.. But IIRC both sides were armed with Trapdoors.. Keaton looked like he had a model P though..
Besides all of the gear gaffs in movies..There's a couple of other outrageous gaffs that have stuck in my memory that make me chuckle.. In some Cowboy & Indian movie.. two braves talking..one has a Brooklyn accent!! The other was a cop TV show.. The M.E. recovers the bloody bullet from the dead victim...Only trouble is, the camera zooms in on a complete 3006 round with blood on it!!!

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:55 pm

I find myself looking for inconsistencies, but not letting them spoil the movie for me. Sure, I know some things don't add up, but if I turned off the movie every time I spotted one, I'd have missed some pretty entertaining movies!
Does anyone really believe the shots Quigley made in Quigley Dwon Under could have been made offhand, from horseback, etc.? Nobody snaps a Sharps to his shoulder and takes a bucket at that distance, but it's still fun to see the movie, and I've seen that one a dozen times at least!

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:05 pm

I tend to go along w/ marlinman's. I watch a movie for entertainment, knowing full well that Hollywood is not obligated or wants to get it --the sets, props, etc. -- right.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:15 pm

Hmmm... could it be that as audiences get more knowledgeable so too must the movie maker. Also the availability of replicas has greatly affected the ability of the studios to attain working, non-collectible examples of period correct firearms. How many non-production original would be available to an armorer on say the set of "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon" (1949).

Unlike sets & costumes, they remain a small (visually) item and glossed over by those ignorant of a particular piece's place in a historical timeline.

Doc Hudson · Post by **Doc Hudson** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:58 pm

JustaJeepGuy wrote:Don't throw that detective novel away so fast, Doc. There are revolvers with safety catches. Not a lot, but they do exist.

I have seen one DA revolver with a safety on the side. It was an el cheapo Spanish rip-off of the S&W Model 10 with a safety lever added. And I've seen more recent vintage cheap .22 single-actions with a manually operated hammer blocking safety..

I've also heard that the New York City Police Department special ordered some revolvers with safeties from Smith & Wesson.

But it really chaps my butt when someone is writing a detective novel or a western shoot-em-up and doesn't take time to research the weapons he talks about in the novel.

BTW, I always get a kick out of Dashiel Hammett's use of a Webley-Fosberry Automatic revolver in the murder of Sam Spade's partner in The Maltese Falcon. He even gave a pretty decent thumbnail description of what it was.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:29 pm

Doc Hudson wrote: Until Tom Selleck started making his Westerns, I can only remember seeing a Remington-Keene bolt action in two movies (Sons of Kate Elder and Joe Kidd),

Sorry Doc, but I believe that was actually a Chaffee-Keene bolt action which could've been made by either Remington or Greene. Then again from another angle it sure looks to be a Winchester-Hotchkiss.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:19 pm

I think that it all amounts to how much unreality you are willing to tolerate versus a very boring movie; the reason that Hollywood always stretches the truth. Even the close-to-real war "documentaries" like "Blackhawk Down" are incorrect in some ways. The movie mentioned combined the stories of more than one warrior and attributed it all to just one character, for instance; even though the separate incidents (or most of them) occurred, according to what somebody told me who was there.

For starters, there is hardly a movie where the cowboys have only five rounds in their revolver to keep from blowing their leg off if their horse stumbles; they all fire six shots! Probably even the Eastwood and Duvall movies faulted in this manner. And, with the exception of those two stars, how many other stars appear in any one scene with dirty clothes and dirt on their faces, which cowboys surely presented to the public most of the time? And other than Doc Holliday, how many cowboys ever really shot more than one man in their lives?

Then, look at the gunbelt of even Duvall and Eastwood in any movie - always bright, shiny new leather, unscratched. And how many times do they carry a case hardened revolver instead of a bright, shiny silver sixgun or one with perfect Colt patented Royal blueing and no holster wear? Not likely. Let's face it - if you look close enough, you'll probably never see a Hollywood production that really rings true. It doesn't sell.

Post by **Old Savage** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:04 pm

My first Winchester was the Mattel version. I also had a Stallion 45 and a Fanner Fifty.

jd45 · Post by **jd45** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:43 pm

Old Savage...........to piggyback off your comment, I believe Wyatt was given a nickel-plated breaktop S&W by John Clum, Editor of the Tombstone Epitath. He may even have used it in th OK fight. jd45

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:29 pm

Old Savage wrote:My first Winchester was the Mattel version. I also had a Stallion 45 and a Fanner Fifty.

Mattel Winchester, Fanner Fifty - me too! I guess that is what I should have answered in the thread asking what our first gun was!

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:52 pm

McMurtry clearly didn't even know that a Dutch Oven is cast iron rather than made of adobe bricks and he thought that a .44 Henry was a very powerful rifle.

Yeah, those bothered me, too.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:57 pm

Gun Smith wrote: My second peeve is, of course, the 250 round magazines on sub machineguns, or the Colt SAA 26 gun.

I always wanted me one of those fancy 26-shot Colt's!!!

steveb · Post by **steveb** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:51 am

Old Savage wrote:By the way, the first Rock and Roller was Elvis in 1865 in Love Me Tender which was to be released as The Reno Brothers before they decided to use the Song Title.

I sure wish someone would make a good historically accurate movie about the Reno Bros. The Reno gang was a murderous band of outlaws (from my hometown) who commited the worlds first train robbery in Seymour Indiana on Oct 6, 1866. They also pulled the worlds second and third train robberies as well. Jackson Co Indiana at the time, was filled with thieves and assassins, and eventually lynch law came to rule. The actual events that took place at that time was wild as hell to sat the least. I just think it would make a great (if historically accurate and done right) movie.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:06 am

I do recall in the movie "The Shootist", John Wayne telling Ron Howard to safely carry a Colt SAA you only carry five, with the hammer down on an empty chamber. But, to load six if you knew you were heading for trouble. And, I agree that a Colt SAA in most situations would of only been holding five rounds, not 20.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:52 pm

Here is my vote for the worst movie (historical correctness) that I have ever seen. To me, it was worse than the movies where the hero swings out the cylinder of his .45 SAA to reload after firing 15 rounds or so, and so on. Ya gotta see it to believe it - for maybe 15 minutes - and then turn it off!
"Colt .45" starring Randolph Scott, 1950.

Basic plot:
Mr. Scott portrays a gun salesman (Samuel Colt? I disremember) whose great new invention is stolen by or for the leader of a local gang of thieves and gunmen. Because it is a six-shooter instead of a single shot, it terrorizes the community, and is instrumental in the robbing of stages and so on, as the baddie fires again and again and the victims drop like flies.

Problems with the movie (besides bad acting, a lame plot, and a nonexistent script):
Literally everybody else in the movie has a holster that covers the mechanism of their pistol - a holster with a large leather ear extending above the hammer. But the grips are all the same, and you (as gun aficionados) will instantly recoginize the grip angle of the Thompson Contender pistol. The Thompson Center site states that their first pistol was produced in 1967; but these had to be prototypes - because you can see the rest of the pistol briefly when the actors draw it.

The movie "takes place" in 1851 - 20 years before the Single Action Army was made. But I guess that's okay; although the movie splash screen and title depict a "Colt .45," the gun as presented is a Colt Walker .44 (circa 1847).

The actors have clearly been directed to hold their (other) pistols with their fingers covering the hammer and breech area of the piece so you can't see the pistol clearly in the movie; but there are no percussion pistols seen - only single shot cartridge guns are used!

In some of the scenes, as I recall, the gun has a long barrel; in other scenes it sports a short (4 inch?) tube - possibly because they switched it with a Colt .45; I can't recall. You wonder why a Randolph Scott movie - blockbusters for the day - would have been filmed so terribly. The skipper of Gilligan's Island is seen as a young, still fat, lazy border lawman in the flick.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:40 pm

[quote="Old Savage"]I believe Wyatt threatened to turn Ike's head into a canoe with a Smith and Wesson in Tombstone. Clint Eastwood uses a number of period pieces in his films.quote]

Wyatt (Tombstone) used a Colt's model 1878 to threaten to turn his head into a canoe.

Sam Elliott uses a S&W revolver of one type or another in CONAGHER & in THE QUICK & THE DEAD.

Louis LAmour was a great (albeit misguided...) fan of the S&W revolvers

DixieBoy · Post by **DixieBoy** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:22 pm

A great one for historical accuracy and lots of gunplay is "Ride With The Devil." It takes place just before, and during, the Civil War, exclusively in Missouri and Kansas. The Missouri "Border Ruffians", as they were known, were largely mounted pistol shooters (Colt's percussion cap revolvers), fighting Kansas-based Union soldiers, and also Kansas citizens.

The infamous 1863 raid on Lawrence, Kansas is depicted, with all of the shooting action looking fairly realistic. I'm no expert by any means on the percussion era revolvers, but it looks like they've really done their homework in this film. It is very accurate in the depiction of attitudes of ordinary people back then.

This might be one of my favorite movies, and it is "kinda" a western.

- DixieBoy

Post by **Old Savage** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:10 pm

By Golly Buck, you are right; thanks for the correction. Here is the link to the clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAS4FUSL ... re=related

Leverluver · Post by **Leverluver** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:09 pm

Johnde

There was a tv horse opera by the same name (Colt 45) in the early sixties. The hero was a salesman for Colt and he traveled the west getting into all kinds of scrapes that only his faithful Colt could get him out of. I don't recall the actors name but he was known more for his singing parts in musicals. The show wasn't all that good and (I don't believe) lasted more than one season. BUT, ya'll can still sing along

There was a right
There was a wrong
The gun was quick
The man was strong
And he made peace
Or man alive
A lightning bolt when he drew that Colt...........forty five.

It is amazing the capacity of a young mind to store worthless junk and an old mind to still recall it

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:06 pm

I do recall in the movie "The Shootist", John Wayne telling Ron Howard to safely carry a Colt SAA you only carry five, with the hammer down on an empty chamber. But, to load six if you knew you were heading for trouble. And, I agree that a Colt SAA in most situations would of only been holding five rounds, not 20.Old Law Dawg

Yes, and before heading to the saloon and shootout, Wayne put a sixth round into each revolver. His engraved revolvers were not Colts, but Great Westerns.

Post by **Old Savage** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:33 pm

Wayde Preston played Chris Colt an undercover govt agent - it was on from 57 to 60.

Post by **Hobie** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:28 pm

It ain't the movies but I remember a time when American Civil War reenactors were all hot to have guns which looked like originals complete with 100 years of patina. Now you know they had wear but many had been issued NEW to the soldiers as had much of their gear. Having been a supply sergeant, I look at the movies with those eyes. Gear which I would have issued to my soldiers passes the smell test. Old looking gear wouldn't have been correct, especially in WWI or WWII.

There are exceptions. E.g. Askaris in Africa were normally issued obsolete or near obsolete equipment, much of which had been well used by the country running the colony.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:54 pm

it goes beyond firearms, too.

In Black Hawk Down, in an opening scene one of the advance guys is wearing a pair of Oakley sunglasses that didn't come out until 1994 (and the incident happened in 1993).

In Gettysburgh, as Pickett's charge begins, they do a shot of the drummers. One of them has a drum with the "Remo" logo printed on the skin, which marks it as a new plastic drumhead, not calfskin as would have been the case.

addendum, I always get a laugh at those who want the 100 years of patina, because 100 years ago the guns were new and shiny.

airedaleman · Post by **airedaleman** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:47 pm

Try "Rough Riders" with Tom Berenger as Theodore Roosevelt and Sam Elliott as Bucky O'Neill. Krag-Jorgensen carbines,
Model 1895 Winchesters, a Mauser C96, Model 1893 and/or 1895 Mausers (hard to tell the difference), Colt potato diggers,
Maxim guns, Gatling guns, a Hotchkiss 37mm multi-barrel gun, a Merwin and Hulbert, and -incorrectly- a replica of TR's
ivory-gripped, engraved Colt SAA, a fancy Model 1891 Mauser and others! Good film with - from all that I've read - pretty fair representations of the Las Guasimas fight and the assault on Kettle Hill.
Also "Ride the High Country" (1961) has Warren Oates with his Model 8 Remington. A Model 1895 Winchester appears in this film, too; the first time I ever one in the movies.

steveb · Post by **steveb** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:16 pm

DixieBoy wrote:A great one for historical accuracy and lots of gunplay is "Ride With The Devil." It takes place just before, and during, the Civil War, exclusively in Missouri and Kansas. The Missouri "Border Ruffians", as they were known, were largely mounted pistol shooters (Colt's percussion cap revolvers), fighting Kansas-based Union soldiers, and also Kansas citizens.

The infamous 1863 raid on Lawrence, Kansas is depicted, with all of the shooting action looking fairly realistic. I'm no expert by any means on the percussion era revolvers, but it looks like they've really done their homework in this film. It is very accurate in the depiction of attitudes of ordinary people back then.

This might be one of my favorite movies, and it is "kinda" a western.
- DixieBoy

I thought the brass framed Colt and Remington cap and ball pistols were historically incorrect? Am I wrong on this? Ride with the devil is a good movie though. Old nubbin finger Jake Rodell.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:59 pm

Leverluver wrote:Johnde

There was a tv horse opera by the same name (Colt 45) in the early sixties...BUT, ya'll can still sing along

There was a right
There was a wrong
The gun was quick
The man was strong
And he made peace
Or man alive
A lightning bolt when he drew that Colt...........forty five....

I remember it! OK - you play the guitar, and I'll sing.

I used to sing best in the shower, but I kept rusting my strings.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:02 am

Here's one to watch for - even in the "good" movies -

The next time a cowboy (good or bad) draws a knife - is it:
1) Real shiny - like, uh, stainless steel, maybe?
2) A Marine Kabar knife, complete with the rawhide grommet handle? You can see the grip with rings around it.

You'll be amazed at how many of both you will see!

JustaJeepGuy · Post by **JustaJeepGuy** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:54 am

Doc Hudson wrote:
JustaJeepGuy wrote:Don't throw that detective novel away so fast, Doc. There are revolvers with safety catches. Not a lot, but they do exist.
I have seen one DA revolver with a safety on the side. It was an el cheapo Spanish rip-off of the S&W Model 10 with a safety lever added.

I could be mistaken, but I thought I had seen photos of a British-made revolver with a safety lever on the left side of the hammer. It may have been the Spanish piece, though.

I do remember that in the TV series McCloud, the chief (or whatever he was) gave McCloud grief for not using the safety on his revolver.....and McCloud didn't tell him there wasn't a safety, because it wasn't in the script....

Leverluver · Post by **Leverluver** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:46 am

Wayde Preston played Chris Colt an undercover govt agent - it was on from 57 to 60

Glad to meet another old fanny burp with a mis-spent youth

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:35 pm

JustaJeepGuy wrote: I could be mistaken, but I thought I had seen photos of a British-made revolver with a safety lever on the left side of the hammer. It may have been the Spanish piece, though....

You are correct. The British Webley Mark IV, use by the Canadian Mounties and by the British Commandos, in .455 Webley and I believe a .38 caliber as well, but I don't remember offhand, for sure. The .455 has a little less horsepower than the .45 ACP, but is still a very hard hitting lead bullet.

I purchased one from a pawn shop for next to nothing when I was stationed at the Army Language School in Monterey, CA in the early sixties, but foolishly got rid of it because it didn't fire American ammunition. It was a neat looking handgun.

Here's a closeup photo of the safety catch, courtesy of Wikipedia:

Now, in case my memory is foggy on this, and the above catch was merely the lever to allow the top break revolver to open, there was also the British Webley Fosbery, which actually rotated the cylinder from the recoil of the fired round - an automatic revolver. It had a conspicuous safety that locked the cylinder forward so that it would not function.

Love that Google! It remembers stuff that I don't.

penates · Post by **penates** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:46 pm

Here's a closeup photo of the safety catch, courtesy of Wikipedia:

Now, in case my memory is foggy on this, and the above catch was merely the lever to allow the top break revolver to open.

That latch is indeed the one to break open the action.

bogus bill · Post by **bogus bill** » Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:17 pm

That latch was definetly to break it open to load and eject.

JustaJeepGuy · Post by **JustaJeepGuy** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:49 pm

On those Webleys, the break-open latch is right behind the hammer. The safety may indeed be that lever in front of the cylinder. Having only seen one Webley-Fosberry, I can't recall if it had that lever at the top of the left-hand grip, which is presumably the safety.

steveb · Post by **steveb** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:23 pm

I thought the brass framed Colt and Remington cap and ball pistols were historically incorrect? Am I wrong on this?

Anyone?

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:36 pm

I've been led to believe there were brass-framed copies made in the South during the War of Northern Aggression. It was easier to machine, more available than steel and would do the job for black powder revolver loads.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:44 pm

I'm waiting for a post from one of our knowledgeable users who has posted before on this subject; but there are many copies out there of certain models that never came in brass trim, e.g. a brass trigger guard or such. I can't immediately recall the details; but I think that only a few models of handguns were made with brass.

Slick13 · Post by **Slick13** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:11 pm

bogus bill wrote:Go see "september dawn". Its about the mountain meadows massacure in 9-11-1857..... I have studied the incident as much as possible...

And yet twice in your post you spell Mormons as "mormans".

~Michael

Otto · Post by **Otto** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:25 pm

I know movies about historical events often take liberties with the facts, but I saw "My Darling Clementine" today for the first time in a few years. I had never before realized what a complete work of fiction it was. Good movie though. I think Walter Brennan is a great heavy, but he is usually cast in a comic-relief role.