Indiana DNR will be getting BAD deer data

[AJMD429]

Last year was first year of 'rifle' season for deer in Indiana. The deer check-stations had forms which didn't list 'rifle' as an option, and with our three family deer (all taken with rifles) each time we had to insist they write in 'rifle' rather than just check 'shotgun' (and one time they said they would do so, but didn't until we pointed to where they had just checked 'shotgun' and stood there until they changed it). They also seemed confused that land owners don't have to buy deer tags, but this has always been the case for the decade I've hunted deer.

THIS year I assumed it would be different; after all, they've had a year to 'prep' for the rifle season, and get it right.

NOPE.

First off, they did the 'you HAVE to have a TAG' thing, and that was annoying. My property taxes cost a heck of alot more than a few dozen deer tags would! Secondly, they asked 'shotgun or handgun?' and my son said '.44 Magnum RIFLE' - and the guy says 'you mean Muzzleloader?' and he says 'no - Rifle' - the guy looks confused, and checks 'shotgun.' THEN he asks my 14 year old son for his driver's license. He says 'Uh, Dad?' at which point I offer mine, unsure what the deal is. Then they ask who shot the deer. My son says 'I did,' but the guy says 'Since he doesn't have a driver's license, I'll have to put it in your name.'

SO....

The people who use our tax money to make decisions on game hunting rules, and are likely supposed to be evaluating whether or not the new 'rifle' season has helped more youth hunters, will NOT see:

"14 year old gets deer with .44 Mag Rifle" but will instead see "50 year old gets deer with shotgun"

Now WHAT in the heck is my tax money going for, and WHY do we even bother with "deer checking?" - we know they DON'T do any checking for CWD, or any checking to see about the other health or age of the deer.

Not only that, but after I got home late from work, and took the deer down packed it in the truck and hauled to town and back, then re-hung it, all in the rain, and I was already feeling like I was getting the flu, they REPRIMANDED me for not having the deer into the checking station within 24 hours. It had been about 28 hours. Oh yeah, and the web site for the DNR, as well as the current season's printed regulations, state "48 hours."

Has anyone else had this kind of experience with their deer checking?

[Chuck 100 yd]

That is bad. I bet Good Will is mad because the DNR is hiring all the people who would normaly work for them.
Special Needs Dept. SND not DNR !!

[Old Ironsights]

AJ, send this letter to the DNR as a "comment". Really. They DO read them.

[deerwhacker444]

Never had a bad situation here in Oklahoma. Everyone is extremely competent, even the folks working the register at the local gas station/check station know what to do. I can't believe how inept your officials sound in Indiana.

[Hobie]

We phone it in.

[PaulB]

They are government workers. Don't expect too much from them. Don't expect that what they do makes any sense.

[Andrew]

If the idea is to use the data collected for anything, then they need to be accurate; every time. Other wise he might as well just doodle a kitty on the sheet where your answers go and let you head on out. That's all it would amount to anyway. You should write/email/call someone to let them know that at least one station is boogering up their data.

[Old Ironsights]

More than one. Another guy on an Indiana Hunting forum experienced & saw similar things.

What is creepy/scary is that we have a pretty strict "One Buck Rule" in this State, and if someone checks in a buck, then has his name put down as checking in a second buck then for all Indianapolis knows he is in violation of the Regs and can be crucified for killing two bucks.

[TedH]

What a bunch of morons.

[J Miller]

Maybe this is intentional sabotage by those in the DNR that were opposed to the new laws.


Just a thought.

Joe

[El Chivo]

there are no bad deer.

[Gobblerforge]

Are the check in stations DNR, or are they local businesses? Here in Ohio it is the later. Most do the check in as a way to increase potential customers. Hardware stores, drive throughs, gas stations, etc.
The DNR should be made aware of this. They waste enough money as it is without having to work with bad data. I think who ever is in charge of that department should be fired immediately. They are not doing their job.
I do commend Indiana for allowing the pistol cartridge rifles though. I just hope that Ohio follows suit some day. I have a 38-40 that I would live to hunt with here at home and not have to go out of state if I wanted to use it.
Gobbler

[Old Ironsights]

Are the check in stations DNR, or are they local businesses? Here in Ohio it is the later. Most do the check in as a way to increase potential customers. Hardware stores, drive throughs, gas stations, etc.
The DNR should be made aware of this. They waste enough money as it is without having to work with bad data. I think who ever is in charge of that department should be fired immediately. They are not doing their job.
I do commend Indiana for allowing the pistol cartridge rifles though. I just hope that Ohio follows suit some day. I have a 38-40 that I would live to hunt with here at home and not have to go out of state if I wanted to use it.
Gobbler

They have both.

In my area (within about 45mi) I can check a deer at Bass Pro, a local Gun Shop, a local Archery shop and the 2 DNR stations...

[Hillbilly]

Sounds like Indiana DNR is taking lessons from the Michigan DNR... ever try to read a Michigan zone map?

Jeff

[nemhed]

Being from Indiana, I’ll go ahead and chime in. First of all, with Mitch Daniels as Gov., this state isn’t going to pay a dime for anything it doesn’t have to. Indiana has a budget surplus unlike most states, so something is being done right. The list of check stations gets thinner every year. Most of those doing it now are businesses that do it as a service and to bring in customers. They don’t get a cent for it. The state is probably making them use up all the old forms before issuing newly updated forms. This year at least they did write down “rifle” when we checked in our deer. Most of these businesses don’t even look at the deer when you check it in unless it’s a huge buck. They probably don’t care a bit about data collection. The state does send me a survey form after hunting season with detailed questions about type of hunting conducted and game taken. So I suggest all you Indiana boys fill yours out. With the current sytem,we might as well do on-line check in. If people will go to the trouble of checking them in on-line. they will probably take the trouble to enter accurate information. We can get tags on-line, and take a hunter ed-class on-line, why not just check in deer. Cheaters are always going to be cheaters and the honest people will always be honest, everyone else falls somewhere in the middle. I’m guessing half the deer shot in this country never get checked in anyway, and the DNR knows this as well as anyone. I would also bet that the data our DNR currently collects only gets broken down by season (early archery, late archery, firearm, and muzzleloader).
Now onto something positive, I think our DNR is doing a good job of encouraging youth hunting and fishing. For $7 my son gets a combo hunting and fishing license and doesn’t have to pay for any additional tags (with the exception of federal stamps). The DNR has promoted free hunting and fishing days, and has started a youth only 2 day deer season that runs during the last weekend of September. They can use any approved weapon and get the first crack at the deer, even before bow season!
Overall, I’m pretty happy with my adopted home state. I admit to being a little offended by this thread. I don’t think everything is so rosy with others states’ fish and wildlife management and Indiana isn’t asking for a federal bailout (yet). I'm not into casting stones. Whatever else I might expect of my government, I would at least expect it to operate in the black.
AJMD429 be careful with that “landowner” thing. The book states “farmland owners” and defines farmland as “land used for some type of agricultural production” and includes the example of “timber that is harvested”. I’ve had people tell me they don’t have to get deer tags, or they can use a 30-06 on deer during firearm season because they’re “hunting on private land” when they don’t even own it!
Oh well, rant off. I don’t suppose anyone is going to read this anyway.

[AJMD429]

AJMD429 be careful with that “landowner” thing. The book states “farmland owners” and defines farmland as “land used for some type of agricultural production” and includes the example of “timber that is harvested”. I’ve had people tell me they don’t have to get deer tags, or they can use a 30-06 on deer during firearm season because they’re “hunting on private land” when they don’t even own it!
Oh well, rant off. I don’t suppose anyone is going to read this anyway.

Well, I read it! And a little "rant" now and then is good for the soul...!

I agree that Indiana is a GREAT state and feel blessed to have been born here. I think the DNR and the gun laws are both really great, and I understand why they don't have a bloated bureaucracy of government-run check stations. I do wish they would better inform the businesses which do the checking, and I think if every 100th deer were checked for CWD it would be a good idea.

We happen to own farmland, but I think the "landowner" term does not require it to be farmland unless you are leasing, tenants, or are a corporation, in which case the restrictions narrow. Of course like most convoluted government regulations, it takes a team of lawyers to extract money from all parties before any temporary, nonbinding 'interpretation' can be had.

From the 2008-2009 DNR manual:

"License Exemptions -
You must have and carry a valid license and
applicable state stamp privileges to hunt any
wild animal, with exceptions as follows:

• Landowners, or lessees of farmland who farm
that land and are residents of Indiana, their
spouses and children living with them, while
hunting, fishing, or trapping on the land they
own or lease. This license exemption does not
apply to land owned by a business, corporation
or partnership unless the shareholders,
partners, members or owners are comprised
solely of the members of an immediate family
and farm that land. Farmland means agricultural
land that is devoted or best adaptable
for the production of crops, fruits, timber, or
the raising of livestock; or is assessed as agricultural
land for property tax purposes."

In addition, if they use the term "landowner" to define anyone who you have to have permission from to hunt on their property (since obviously you can hunt on more than just 'farmland'), then how could one be a "landowner" in that sense, but not a "landowner" in the sense of being allowed to hunt on their OWN property...?

[Old Ironsights]

I asked a CO and this is his response to your concerns (and mine):

First of all, I would try to find another check station if this one is annoying your friend this bad. Maybe he was having a really bad day.

If having the number of deer taken with a rifle was such a big issue for fish and wildlife, they would have added 'rifle' to the weapon box...don't lose any sleep over that one. Some check stations write in 'rifle' while others just check 'shotgun'. Either way is okay.

In evaluating whether or not the rifles had helped the youth hunters, those numbers would be gleaned from the data from the deer killed during the YOUTH SEASON in SETEMBER, not from firearm season.

As far as the landowner issue goes, you are supposed to make out your paper tag immediately upon killing your deer and are required to place said paper tag on the deer prior to leaving it unattended or transporting it out of the field. That is the tag that the check station operator was looking for. You would probably lose sleep over that one if you were caught transporting your 'family deer' without paper tags on them.

Your buddy's tax money has no influence on the inept check station operator. Seems that this particular check station has some issues of their own. This should be brought to the attention of the local CO that monitors that check station.

I would be most worried about having 2 bucks checked in under my name more than anything, and that, I assure you, would be something to lose sleep over! Might want to have your buddy call the local CO first and explain the situation before he tracks him down in a few weeks.

The check stations gather information primarily for harvest numbers and sex (buck/doe) ratios. They use these numbers to estimate what the deer herd is doing as far a growth is concerned, and to assist in antlerless county quotas for the following season. Having the wrong box (shotgun or muzzloader) checked by the check station operator is not going to have any negative impact on what they are doing with the numbers.

[nemhed]

O.I. thanks for that post. Wouldn't someone have to have your deer tag or hunting license number to check in any deer under your name?

[AJMD429]

I asked a CO and this is his response to your concerns (and mine):

First of all, I would try to find another check station if this one is annoying your friend this bad. Maybe he was having a really bad day.

Unfortunately this is the only station within driveable distance; it was just as bad last year.

If having the number of deer taken with a rifle was such a big issue for fish and wildlife, they would have added 'rifle' to the weapon box...don't lose any sleep over that one. Some check stations write in 'rifle' while others just check 'shotgun'. Either way is okay.

That's good, but it does seem kind of like they'd want to get accurate information if they're bothering to collect any at all.

In evaluating whether or not the rifles had helped the youth hunters, those numbers would be gleaned from the data from the deer killed during the YOUTH SEASON in SETEMBER, not from firearm season.

Now that one is really dumb on their part, because I know very few who took advantage of the youth season, but tons of kids who hunted during regular season!

As far as the landowner issue goes, you are supposed to make out your paper tag immediately upon killing your deer and are required to place said paper tag on the deer prior to leaving it unattended or transporting it out of the field. That is the tag that the check station operator was looking for. You would probably lose sleep over that one if you were caught transporting your 'family deer' without paper tags on them.

That's good - we always do the "tag" before even field dressing the deer; maybe he expected us to remove the tag and bring it to him, but I always thought it was to stay ON the deer until the inspector took it off and replaced it with the metal one.

Your buddy's tax money has no influence on the inept check station operator. Seems that this particular check station has some issues of their own. This should be brought to the attention of the local CO that monitors that check station.

Yep. See above.

I would be most worried about having 2 bucks checked in under my name more than anything, and that, I assure you, would be something to lose sleep over! Might want to have your buddy call the local CO first and explain the situation before he tracks him down in a few weeks.

My son shot a doe, so that isn't a concern. Besides, I haven't got ANY deer yet this season ; been too busy trying to organize and scout 'for' my kids. I need to get my act in gear before muzzleloading season is over!

The check stations gather information primarily for harvest numbers and sex (buck/doe) ratios. They use these numbers to estimate what the deer herd is doing as far a growth is concerned, and to assist in antlerless county quotas for the following season. Having the wrong box (shotgun or muzzloader) checked by the check station operator is not going to have any negative impact on what they are doing with the numbers.

THANKS for all the info and for checking with the CO though.
Some of it is silliness on the part of the check station and some misinformation on what I expected, but your information was helpful. I still think I'll write a letter to the DNR at some point just so they know there are some kinks to work out, at least at our local station... The bottom line is to maintain a healthy deer population, and encourage safe and humane harvest, but it is really nice if they continue to encourage kids to get out and hunt more; I think some better behavior at the check stations rather than just being a 'good old boy' place would help encourage kids, women, and newbies in general.

[Old Ironsights]

O.I. thanks for that post. Wouldn't someone have to have your deer tag or hunting license number to check in any deer under your name?

Well, given the laxity shown by the Check Station people, it would not be at all suprising that they just filled in 2 lines with the same Name and License number - especially if they are more interested in Picture IDs than reading hand scrawled temp tags.

That's why I edit the "official" temporary tag to have all of my pertinates in big bold type, then print and laminate it so all I have to do is notch the day/date.