Grant Cunningham and how the Lever is a good sub for the EBR

[Hobie]

You should read Grant Cunningham's post today...

[WCF3030]

Sounds like a forum member.

[O.S.O.K.]

Well what the gent is saying is that the levergun is a good second best to the EBR for defensive purposes. And I agree with that.

I think he is trying to help out the most probably many people that are looking at getting a firearm for defensive purposes and just can't bring themselves to spend the rediculous prices they are going for right now. At least at the gun shows and funshops where most unsavy people shop for these.

They aren't gunny type people and he's pointing them in a the right way given their needs.

So, he's doing a good thing.

[steveb]

I agree with everything but the small group part."There is that small group of purchasers, however, that desires to have a rifle for defensive purposes, be it for home or farm." I'd think that group of purchasers is a little bigger than that.

[O.S.O.K.]

He's being PC.

[rjohns94]

Good read. thanks for the post.

[PaulB]

Grant's a very nice guy.

I had him do some work on a Dan Wesson I had. He worked on it a very long time, then we got together and he gave it back to me, and said he finally figured out it couldn't be reasonably improved because of the poor accuracy in machining in the original gun. And he refused to take any kind of payment even though he had spent a lot of his time and for parts on the gun!

[adirondakjack]

A good piece of writing. I've long been an adherent to exactly that philosophy. When I lived in a crummy little efficiency in a bad part of town while in college, my landlord never batted an eyelash at my 1894C standing behind the front door (stoked with 155 gr silvertips). I don't suppose an AR or AK woulda been so well-received. More recently, with an 1894 CB-L with a "full race" action job and a short stroke conversion to run the Cowboy .45 Specials, I can stoke the 24 incher with 17+1, and when I get one cut back to 16", it'll still hold 10+1, and I can run the ten in about 3.5 seconds on ten targets.

I don't feel a NEED to go to a semi auto (not expecting to need a quick reload unless the mutants or zombies come off the silver screen and come alive (I don't do drugs, so that ain't likely, even on a bad night)

[Tycer]

I'm buying a Trijicon 1.5x25 ACOG BAC with Weaver mount for my BLR. No batteries.

[Modoc ED]

Maybe a good, competent, levergunner can operate a lever action rifle very close to EBR speeds but to my way of thinking, a levergunner can't come close to reloading as fast as a gun shooting an EBR.

Drop empty magazine - insert new magazine - start shooting.

Stuff bullets one at a time into tubular magazine - stuff, stuff, etc. - start shooting.

Also, to my way of thinking, a levergun comes in dead last when compared against a shotgun for home defense.

[bigbore442001]

I am sure the pros and cons of a lever action for home and self defense can go on ad infinitum ad nauseum. So may I add to the discussion?

One of the negatives to living in the southern New England area is that there is an infection of political correctness. As it stands autoloaders such as the AR,AK ,FN family are available at many gun shops but what about the legal aftermath of using one.

If an area has a riot or some other civil unrest, would it look better to a jury of your peers that you used your deer rifle to defend your wife and family? Or would it not matter that you used a "black rifle"? As I sit here there was a short vignette on TV about the California riots a while back. During that time all Hades broke loose but shortly later, government was restored so to speak.

[Lastmohecken]

I would agree, a good leveraction makes a pretty good defense weapon. And if I ever did have to go to court, in a questionable use of deadly force, in my home, then a leveraction would seem to be about the least offensive weapon in the eyes of a jury, that I can think of. Where a Black rifle might not warant such a favorable, evaluation.

I think I will keep some of both on hand, but I would hardly feel undergunned with a good leveraction.

[AJMD429]

You mean we can't just use a 20mm Mini-gun...? Shucks, that takes all the FUN out of it...

The funny thing is that the PC crowd thinks the EBR is all bad, and the 'legitimate sporting/hunting gun' is OK, but if you were a burglar/rapist would you rather be shot with a .223, or a .45-70...?

[Griff]

It's all about tactics, training & mindset. I consider zones as defined by close, near and far. Optimally, I consider "home defense" as though from attacks from without. I wish to stop such an attack at my yard, front, back or side; for which a rifle or carbine is well-suited, be it lever, EBR or other. (BTW, my nearest property line is about 75 yard distant). Once the yard (50-75' distant), has been breached, a "near" weaon is appropiate, such as a shotgun or pistol-callber carbine or, preferably a subgun. But... once the abode is entered, I want a single-handed weapon, as this becomes "close-quarters" combat in my definition. Much as in clearing a residence in police work, a weapon that requires two hands for control puts the defender at some risk where removing a hand to open/close doors is necessary.

That's simply the view from my armchair, an opinion, if you will, and certainly not one of an expert; although I have survived any number of home-clearings and raids, both occupied and unoccupied (which I like better)!

[Southern Bamboo]

I like to read this site for 'Redneck' or 'Cowboy' EBR substitutes... makes for a good read!

Fighting Leverguns - http://www.warriortalk.com/forumdisplay ... 9b834&f=96

They refer to this site a lot, actually.

RE: Civil unrest and the LA Riot, people used the SKS to great advantage during that time - especially some of the Korean shop owners. Not an EBR, don't know if they modified the 5 round mag, but it just goes to show how an EBR, SKS, or Levergun (anything w/ high capacity and rate of firepower) could be beneficial in a time like that.

I'll take my 30-30 Winchester 94.

Souther 'Boo

[JReed]

You mean we can't just use a 20mm Mini-gun...? Shucks, that takes all the FUN out of it...

The funny thing is that the PC crowd thinks the EBR is all bad, and the 'legitimate sporting/hunting gun' is OK, but if you were a burglar/rapist would you rather be shot with a .223, or a .45-70...?

I would rather be shot with the 45-70 death would be quicker and it wouldn't hurt for long. Here is the thing the 5.56 is a good round for 2 legged vermin but in a home defense situation unless you use light varmint bullets that dont exit coyotes let alone a person I would not use it in the house. This is the same reason I wouldnt use my 94 in .45colt in the house either. But my SxS 20g with #4 buck is a whole nother story.

As to the article. A lever in a pistol cal is a great choice for an urban assault rifle. Ammo is easy to get for 357 or 44mag you can fire a lot of rounds with out any sort of functioning issues. They are fast handeling and more then accurate enough to make bad guys take a dirt nap.

[Lastmohecken]

I like to read this site for 'Redneck' or 'Cowboy' EBR substitutes... makes for a good read!

Fighting Leverguns - http://www.warriortalk.com/forumdisplay ... 9b834&f=96

They refer to this site a lot, actually.

RE: Civil unrest and the LA Riot, people used the SKS to great advantage during that time - especially some of the Korean shop owners. Not an EBR, don't know if they modified the 5 round mag, but it just goes to show how an EBR, SKS, or Levergun (anything w/ high capacity and rate of firepower) could be beneficial in a time like that.

I'll take my 30-30 Winchester 94.

Souther 'Boo

Actually, the SKS holds 10 rounds in it original blind magazine, and can be reloaded pretty fast with stripper clips, but two advantages the Leveraction has over an SKS, is the leveraction normally has a better trigger, and you can constantly keep topping off the magazine tube with a round chambered for imediate action.

And it seems that somewhere I remember reading that during the riots in Calf, someone noted that very issue of having to load the SKS, with the rifle being of course out of battery, but then again, if there are more then two people defending a store, or whatever, just make sure you don't both run out of ammo at the same time. Sounds simple don't it? Maybe not so simple on real life. But at anyrate, I remember loading stripper clips in the SKS I used to own, and I could do it, probably in less then 5 seconds, last shot to first shot, but without stripper clips, one might be down a lot longer, espacally with shaking hands, from the rush of adrenalin.

[JustaJeepGuy]

The funny thing is that the PC crowd thinks the EBR is all bad, and the 'legitimate sporting/hunting gun' is OK

At the risk of getting close to politics, I have to say that the PC crowd doesn't think the 'legitimate sporting/hunting gun' is OK. They don't think ANY gun is OK, they're just saying that for now.

[Lefty Dude]

I have a Rossi 92 in 44 Mag. for an all purpose Rifle. It holds 11 in the tube and another in the the chamber. It will hold a few more 44 specials if need be.

I shoot CAS, sometimes three matchs a Month. I am very familiar with lever guns and can operate them quickly and accurately. I use a Uberti Cimarron 73 carbine in 44-40 as my main match Rifle, with a Rossi 92 in 44-40 as the back-up.

BTW, the new World Record for a 10 shot lever gun run is now 1.7 sec for the 10 shots on target at CAS Rifle distance. The piece is a modified Marlin 94, shooting 38 specials.

[Jaguarundi]

My go to truck gun is a Rossi Puma SS SRC in 45LC same caliber as my Ruger hand guns.I agree with the one handed ability of the handgun in domicile social situations.I have allways shot sixguns for 30+ years so the revolver is instinctive for me.The levergun for over a decade so same muscle memory also.As for the 45 LC caliber choice..I like it's ability to unseat the rider (with proper updated reloading in modern ordnance design and steel)by dropp'n the horse. Nice link hobie.20 some years ago a friend from Queens,NY resolved his home defense problem for his apartment there by owning a 94 Winnie in 30-30.