Scopes: To scout or not to scout, that is the question.

[mklwhite]

A guy I work with just picked himself up his first lever. (A Marlin '94) Yesterday he was talking scopes and asked about (what after some descriptions turned out to be) scout setups. I read a bit about them, still looks odd to me, but I said I'd ask those who know and see what ya'll said. Is a scout scope setup (dare I say the word) "better" (or perhaps "easier" would better a better choice) than a regular scope setup for 100-150 yard hunting situations.

[FWiedner]

No.

My personal experience is that scout set-ups are handy in good light at closer ranges. I'd go to 100yds without worry.

One can certainly shoot beyond that, but I believe that the scout set-up becomes deficient at longer ranges because of the low magnification scopes used and the diminished sight picture presented by a longer eye-relief.

JMO

[Old Time Hunter]

Personally I prefer the scout scope set up with long I relief in that it gives me, what I feel, a quicker target acquistition. That being said, I also prefer a "ghost" ring set up before I scope a hunting rifle, for the same reasons.

[86er]

Putting personal preference aside and looking purely at facts:

A Scout scope generally has a smaller objective. They tend to run from 20mm - 32mm. There are a few good ones with variable power up to 7X. The smaller the lens, the less light they transmit. A huge part of that is the lens quality and coating, the lens size does not speak for itself. Next, light transmission is lost between the lens and the eye. The further away the lens, the more that is lost. Every two inches or so equals about a minute of time in fading light. A scout scope 12" from your eye will fail to pick up light about 3 1/2 minutes prior to one that is 3" from your eye given equal scope quality. In reverse, the scope closer to your eye becomes useful a few minutes sooner during daybreak. The scout scope eliminates the possibility of getting hit with the scope during recoil. This can be a big deal with hard kicking guns or shooters that are just intimidated about getting smacked with the scope. Rifles with scout scopes usually are front heavy due to the scope position. The receiver mounted scoped rifle usually balances better. If you need to adjust the scope power or wipe the lens when an animal is in view, the receiver mounted scope requires much less movement since you dont have to reach out to the scope. A scout scope can be used with both eyes open in most cases. This can be an advantage if game is moving, especially right after the shot. On the other hand, a scope closer to the eye is often easier to get a second view through when recovering from recoil. If you are going to keep open sights on the rifle, the scope scout will require a rear peep sight or tang sight in most cases. On the other hand, the receiver mounted scope can be used with a barrel mounted rear sight in place, and sometimes a tang sight will work. In both cases the sights are used when you take the scope off. That leads to another issue. A scope base on the receiver often blocks the rear sight due to the height. A scout base sits lower and in most cases you can use the rear sight with few problems.
To answer your question directly, a scout scope is probably NOT easier. It requires a special mount, and a special scope that is not readily available although you can get one from mail order easily. Then, if you want to keep a rear sight you may not be able to use the factory barrel mounted rear sight. Lastly, some scout scopes take getting used to and require fairly precise eye alignment. A receiver mounted scope base for most leverguns can be purchased in Wal Mart for $10. So can the scope, and just about any one will do based on your preference, but there is a hell of a lot more selection and price range. Install the bases and put the rings on the scope. Set the rings and adjust the eye relief. Done. And you can still use the factory open sights if you take the scope off (assuming you can see the rear over the scope base), OR you can get a rear sight that goes on the rear scope base when the scope is off. Those are the facts - now my opinion: This is truely a matter of personal preference - each has pluses and minuses. I use both, but my scout scope are there because I cannot mount the scope on the receiver due to the type of rifle, or they are "scout" mounted specifically due to recoil and avoiding scope cuts. Otherwise I would use a traditional receiver mounted scope with all things being equal.

[Hobie]

If I were considering it, and I did, I'd try it first, and I did, because when I did try it it did not work for me. I have a scoped 10" .44 Mag barrel for my Contender and it is difficult for me to shoot. My eyes are just not working with the extended relief scope.

[WCF3030]

I use the scout scope with the quick disconnects. It took a couple tries to set it up, but once it was I got hooked.
Works good when you have to shoot left-handed.
I shot rabbits and tree rats on the run, as well as some 70+ yard shots up in the tops of some dark oaks with my reduced loads.
Of course I've shot rabbits and tree rats on the run with my XS sights as well.

[jeepnik]

Why not look at a holographic or red dot. I have a holographic on my GS and have been very happy with it's performance.

[adirondakjack]

I agree they are of limited use. I have a Mauser I didn't want to drill, so I put a scout type mount on it. It is NOT a low-light setup, and eye relief is very critical, so mounting therifle properly FOR THAT SCOPE is gonna be an issue. In the case of the Mauser, it's more a "heads up" deal, (if ya climb up on it, the picture goes bad). That said it's fast to acquire and for fairly close use is kinda neat.

Kinda a niche set up ya will either love or hate.

[Old Time Hunter]

Kind of ugly, but it works!

[LeverBob]

Pards!

Try it, you just may like it! I converted long ago & use the system on all my rifles (especially my .375 Mauser), except my old Mdl. 70. The advantages are already apparent, the disadvantages are not worth discussing. As an old skeet shooter, muzzle weight is an advantage, not a disadvantage whether the range is 10 ft. or 300 yrds. I almost never shoot off the bench anymore, except when testing. All my practice is like the old Colonel (Askins): offhand. My old Mdl.70 wears an 1946 Lyman Alaskan & I have never found 2 3/4 pwr. insufficient. Whether the range is short or long, the rifle did it's part when I did mine.
IMHO, the increased eye relief is not an issue really: if the light is questionalble then you shouldn't shoot as a matter of ethics. I'm old enough to have gained a haywagon of patience. Another day is just fine with me-I'll let the quarry pass & try another day.
Col. Cooper wasn't the first to think up the idea, it is actually fairly old. The German snipers used it on their first model 98K's to facilitate clip reloading-they did the job too!!! Those old boys sure could shoot & hunt!
I use the XS system & the Burris system & find they both work just fine.
For Levers (my favorite!) try the XS, it is a bolt-on deal! You can use reflex sight too. Add a rear base & you can use conventional scopes. If'n you do, then fit a Lyman 66, because you can pull the slide & screw-on the base. Works for me just fine!
Your choice pards, just my humble opinion...

LeverBob

[Blaine]

Why not look at a holographic or red dot. I have a holographic on my GS and have been very happy with it's performance.

Jeeps, I was going to try it, but up here in WETstern Washington, it rains too much....When those get wet, it's twice as bad as looking thru a regular scope......

I like my Leupold Scout Scope set up with QRWs and Ghost Ring and HiViz.........I am going to try a 1.5 x 5 next time, though....I think it might work better..... The one advantage I have with the Scout is keeping both eyes open while looking thru the scout scope...ya can't do that with a regular scope....

[Lastmohecken]

I tried it, and at first it seemed to work pretty good, but I have trouble shooting with both eyes open, and that is one of the requirements to really benifit from the Scout scope system. My master eye is on the wrong side.

Also, I found that I just couldn't seem game, under field conditions in the woods, nearly as well as with a regular scope. So I have pretty much gave up on the scout scope system.

[jeepnik]

Why not look at a holographic or red dot. I have a holographic on my GS and have been very happy with it's performance.

Jeeps, I was going to try it, but up here in WETstern Washington, it rains too much....When those get wet, it's twice as bad as looking thru a regular scope......

I like my Leupold Scout Scope set up with QRWs and Ghost Ring and HiViz.........I am going to try a 1.5 x 5 next time, though....I think it might work better..... The one advantage I have with the Scout is keeping both eyes open while looking thru the scout scope...ya can't do that with a regular scope....

Hadn't thought about rain. We don't get much of that down my way.

[cas]

IMO the only down side is early morning or evening with the low sun. You get reflection off the lens which makes it hard to see. But after using pistol scopes for years I'm used to it. I actually have a rubber tube that slides over the ocular lens that does away with the problem.... but I never use it. Just doesn't bother me enough to bother.

[PaulB]

It's important with a scout scope to get your cheek weld right, so you don't end up searching around for the light cone. I put one of those cheek-eeze pads on my gun to get it right; now acquisition of the sight picture is very fast. The Leupold Scout scope has an exit pupil of 28/2.5=11.2 mm which is quite large.

I don't think a long relief scope is going to be any dimmer than any other scope merely because it is long relief. Just shine a light through it and look at the back end, holding up a piece of cardboard. You will see a long cone of light. No light goes off to the side or anything like that, so none is lost. If it is dimmer, it is because the eyepiece is smaller or the coating not as good.

I'm guessing a Scout Scope would be even better in the rain, because your breath is less likely to fog the scope (since it is farther away).

For lever guns a Scout Scope is a natural. Why? Because it does not ruin the handiness of the gun, like a regular scope does. And, because it, like a lever cartridge, is not a long range proposition; it fits within the window of a lever gun cartridge capability. You wouldn't put a scout scope on a 1000-yard rifle.