OT log cabin

coyote nose · Post by **coyote nose** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:10 pm

Plan on building a SMALL (8X10 or 10X12) log cabin in my woods. Not a log house. I am looking for ideas and/or plans online and all I can find is plans pertaining to log houses. Anybody direct me to a website that may have what I am looking for??? Thanks in advance

reo · Post by **reo** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:45 pm

Here is one:

http://tinyhouseblog.com/construction-a ... in-part-1/

When searching put in your desired square footage in the search I have had luck with that.

Duff L Bagg · Post by **Duff L Bagg** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:56 pm

try these

http://sitkaloghomes.com/projects15.htm
http://www.yourloghomesource.com/small-cabin.htm
http://www.abettersite.com/a-bettymills-cabins.html
http://www.abettercabin.com/

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:10 pm

What are you going to use it for? That sounds pretty small, but may work for a hunting place for one or two people. I live (full time) in a 14x18 cabin, with a bathhouse (outhouse with running water) for civilized support.

I've built a few cabins, traditional style for the west and north country. Not much to plans on a small cabin it will be a one room affair, rectangular generally looks best. Extending the roof line to form a porch looks good and makes the roof simpler and less likely to leak(as valleys are). I prefer having the door in the end, rather than the side, as it'd easier to stay dry, and do the porch roof. I've done 8' porches mostly, they are a good size, and try to keep 2' of roof overhang all around. This also gives some shade and rain protection for junk on the outside walls. A 4-12 or at most 5-12 roof pitch is easy to work on safely, and sheds snow OK. Looks more traditional for the mountains and north also. 6 1/2' to 7' side walls work OK in a small cabin, but if you want a loft, higher walls and steeper roof pitch may be needed.

I'd suggest a couple books, try to find them at the library or online. First is "The Wilderness Cabin" by Calvin Rutstrum, "How to Build and Furnish a Log Cabin" by Hunt, and "Your cabin in the Woods" by Meiniecke. All are fairly simple books, and describe simple cabins and methods. "Building the Alaska Log Home" by Walker is good also.

For that small of a cabin, V-plank corners may be fine, and are fast and easy to put up.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:52 pm

Malamute,
Do you get cabin fever?

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:28 pm

Coyote, I built my log cabin also 26x32 outside dimisnions with a loft, malmute gave some good advice. There are 2 styles chinkless and chinked and for r value use a lodgepole,white pine or spruce as a dense wood does not hold heat or cool properly. Ive seen cabins built from larch and red fir and they were miserable to live in. If you build onsite with you own logs and need to mill them or make lumber you can get a alaskan chainsaw mill pretty cheap from northern toolhttp://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/ ... _100+85630. danny

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:22 pm

BigSky56,
Did you use the Alaskan?
How was it?
Got any tips?

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:36 pm

Mescalero1, Ive used a chainsaw mill to make lumber and beams from logs, the more hp saw you use the better and get a ripping chain a standard chain does a poor job and wanders around you can order it from Baileys logging supplyhttp://www.baileysonline.com/category.asp?CatID=195 they also have mills and other products for cutting logs. Tips? really check the logs for wire and nails things can get exciting when you hit one (big stuff) as you can shank the cutters or break the chain. Those mills make decent rough cut lumber, beams and slab logs pretty good.danny

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:45 pm

I have a complete woodworking shop, was just wondering how the little mills do.
Have access to a bunch of dry timber.
I get the Baileys catalog in the mail.
Do you sharpen the chains yourself or have someone do it?

coyote nose · Post by **coyote nose** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:39 am

Thanks guys. I know it is small.....it will be put up in the woods about 200 yards from my house so no, it is not really a hunting cabin. My goal is to have a place where I can build fires, sit around the cabin, maybe let a hunting buddy stay in it, or my girl and I can occasionally sleep in it. I am in Ohio and do my yearly trip to Wyoming every early fall. This cabin is to get me outside more often in Ohio. I dont want elaborate, just a one room shack w/ table, maybe a small woodstove, a place for a cot, a porch to sit on when it pours (I love rain). Thats why all the plans for log houses didn't apply, altho the building techniques do. thanks for the links.
Malamute..I just got back last week from NW wyoming. First I did a backpack in the windrivers, then headed into the gallatins via togwatee pass and YNP. I stopped in West Yellowstone where I ALMOST bought an 1886 about 2 years ago. Now the gun store is gone..he had quite a few old guns. Wonder what happened to them.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:28 am

A lot of my stuff is packed for the move, but I found the log material.
For your purposes, check out Build your own log cabin, by Paul & Karyn Pfarr
This is a basic tools kind of thing, real rustic. I'm speculating, but I think this will fit your needs.

slimster · Post by **slimster** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:31 am

Coyote Nose, I have an e-copy of a great basic cabin building book called "Your Cabin in the Woods". It was originally published in 1945 and has lots of great info in it about how to build and live in small basic cabins. If you would be interested in a copy, p.m. me w/ your e mail addy and I'll try to figure out how to attach the file to an e-mail and get it to you.

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:41 am

Great thread guys. Wonderful to hear from some experienced cabin builders here. This is on my dream list.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:48 am

I believe it was Cabelas website that showed some small cabin kits. You might check them out. IIRC, they had a few different sizes from small one room, to bigger with lofts.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:08 pm

kimwcook,
I remember seeing that, thought they were kind of pricey

44LVR · Post by **44LVR** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:14 pm

I grew up in a family that hand built log homes. We closed it down a decade or so ago. I made my money growing up peeling fir logs (started out at .$25 per log in '68!) and was foreman by the time I was 19. I personally built them as small as 7'x9' (Great Dane dog house!) to one a little over 6,000 sq ft. From single story ranch houses to 3 story homes. We did it all with a hand scribe, powersaw, forklift and an axe!

44

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:32 pm

As I will be working alone, I need to mill them down to 8 foot 6 inch by 6 inch logs, I will go in & frame with 2x4 to insulate ( more ) & run wiring through.

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:04 pm

Mecalero, I sharpen them myself, If you are using dry logs remember to set it so any visiable splits cruve down to drain water and not cause rot or you can chink them. danny

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:26 pm

I was wondering if my power sharpener will work with the rip chain you mentioned, I don't think I have ever seen one.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:46 pm

Looked it up in my Baileys, looks like I can do it, if I buy a 100ft reel of chain it's cheaper.

Jarhead · Post by **Jarhead** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:41 pm

I too have the dream...I plan on building a 20x30 log cabin with a loft from scratch...butt and pass method. I own 30 acres adjacent to a wilderness area with timber(pondarosa pine)...Just waiting for my 19 year old to finish college. I will build a smaller log structure first 12x16 for outhouse(compost system)...tool shed.

Wall tent until that time...

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:11 pm

Jarhead,
Don't go trying to muscle big timber by yourself, I have done it;
but we were both a lot younger then.

Jarhead · Post by **Jarhead** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:35 pm

mescalero1 wrote:Jarhead,
Don't go trying to muscle big timber by yourself, I have done it;
but we were both a lot younger then.

I hear ya Mescalero

...I bought a tractor to skid my logs, and I'll play it smart and safe. Heck, as we both know, falling trees is very dangerous. I've been thinning my timber stand some..getting the "sucker trees" out, so the big ones will grow better.

If ya need a hand, let me know. I'll ride my "Hardly Dangerous" your way for a couple of weeks. I work out at the gym and keep myself in shape, but a back injury at our age would be a real "Bummer!"

By the way, I took some picks of Alaska when I was up there in September for ya. I'll post em via a PM...

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:43 pm

way to go , us old guys have to stick together

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:47 am

"As I will be working alone, I need to mill them down to 8 foot 6 inch by 6 inch logs, I will go in & frame with 2x4 to insulate ( more ) & run wiring through."

That sounds like a lot of extra work, and losing the beauty of the logs inside. I've worked logs alone, and used 38 to 45 foot full round logs, 14"+ butts. I built a hand powered log winch on castors. I used a triangular frame base, with a triangular frame front frame, with a backbone of 2 2x6's, hanging a snatch block pulley off the front end. A rope "come-a-long" winch gives unlimited reach to drag logs off the pile for peeling and stacking. The base would roll around on the floor, letting me move the logs wherever I needed to move them. On the larger logs, I had to lift, adjust(swing it around some), set down, adjust the position of the winch, lift again, then set in place. It's a little slow, but works well. On the smaller place I did, I could roll the winch around with a log lifted. I use skidding tongs to lift, but lifting tongs would be better (rated higher). It's easy to swing and move logs around when lifted if you get them close to the balance point.

For smaller places, you can also ramp the logs up the wall with boards or small logs and the rope come-a-long. Once they are on the wall, it's easy to move them around and work them, as they lay on the cross logs. This assumes corner notching. I've never done butt and pass, that's usually done on milled logs.

If you make large logs smaller, you're losing insulation value and thermal mass (one of the attributes of logs) then trying to compensate with a frame wall and insulation. Why not just build a frame cabin?

I haven't found log cabins to be a problem to keep warm. we only get to 20 below or so here, but I've been plenty comfortable in my cabins, as have my buyers.

For wiring, I run the wires in the chink joints, and make clearance along a door frame to get to a joint that has light switches in it. I turn single gang outlets sideways to make the inletting easier, and make the face of the cover flush with the log surface. Drill a hole in each end of the plastic box for wires to come in and out of the box. Cut the nail ears off, and screw the box directly to the back of the inletted cavity.

The rope come-a-long (Maasdam brand) is rated as high as the cable ones, and doesnt suffer from the "too short of cable" issue. I have a 50' length of "Safety Blue" rope on mine. The rated use is 1500 lbs I believe, the failure point of the hand winch is around 4500 lbs. My logs were somewhere around 800 to 900 lbs for the big ones from estimates of other log builders I talked to. I kept 2 of the come-a-longs around in case of parts breakage (get a couple of the little flat springs for spares) or needing an extra one for something else when the winch was set up. I think you'd want 2 if you skidded the logs up ramps. That would probably be best for a real small place.

Get a bunch of "cull" 2x6's from your lumber yard, they come in handy for ramps up the wall, and for skids for moving logs across the pile when peeling or getting one from the far side of the pile. Cut to 3' on up, they have a lot of uses. You can use them to stack your gable logs up also, drill a hole in a couple 2x6's, make a hole in the joint between the logs, and use a piece of all-thread to pinch the gable logs and hold them in place, and making a trough for the next log to lay in as you go up. Make longer ones as your gables go up. I leave a couple of these on until the gables are all threaded together down thru the walls, the purlins and ridge on, and roof on. The chinking covers the holes when you're done.

OK, sorry for the book. I really like doing log work!

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:36 am

Don't be sorry, I enjoyed the read; thanks for takeing the time to write it.
This place is going to be a lunch room, bath room, with overnight sleeping, kitchen facility at my commercial lot where the two workshops are.
I have an old trailer there now that serves that purpose, just trying to make it prettier

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:25 pm

I'm going to try that log winch

preventec47 · Post by **preventec47** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:09 pm

I had to go to library and wait for girlfriend to do some quick research and I checked
out the Log Home and cabin section. I went back the next day and spent
six hours looking at all the books and then again the next weekend.
There are many different ways to lay the logs and notch the corners
and some are more production oriented and designed to take advantage
of modern tools for speed of construction. There there are all the real
old fashioned ways too. I think with long nails or rebar hammered into
drilled holes and threaded rebar there are ways today to really speed
up the process and still have a rustic looking structure.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:50 am

I would avoid using rebar driven in tightly. I went to 1/2" smooth steel rod. The problem is, when you drive the ridged rebar in tightly, when the logs shrink, the rebar can hold them apaart, rather than letting them settle together properly. I drill the rod holes 5/8" so the steel rods drop in freely. I use an "X" pattern on purlins and ridge, and use a rod in the walls a foot or so out (extending into the log above and below each opening) on each side of the window and door cuts. I all-thread (1/2")the ridge down thru the window and door openings, and 6' down (I had a 3' and 6' drill bit extension made) each wall a foot or two out from the corners. I also use a 2x4 spline inletted in the ends of the logs in each door and window opening, and attach the door and window jambs to the spline, this allows the logs to settle properly, and make the interior walls have 1 1/2" of clearance at the top, and make a slip joint there covered by a trim piece that allows the structure to settle. On very small cabins and dry logs most of the slip joints aren't needed, and you can screw door and window frames directly to the logs. I use 10 to 12" spikes in the corners, down into the log below, and counter sink the head 2 or 3 ", and drill for the shank so the nail won't hold up the upper log as they settle. I wouldn't omit this step with notched corners. Round or saddle notches arent too hard to do. It isn't rocket science by any means. The first few will probebly be rough, but it gets easier after a few, and chinking will cover rough joints anyway.

Birdman · Post by **Birdman** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:57 pm

I have been wanting to build a small cabin in my backyard. I have stayed several times in KOA camping cabins while on motorcycle trips. They fit the bill perfectly. The kits are manfactured by Conestogo cabins (or something like that). They ain't cheap though so I will give all this info a good look see.

preventec47 · Post by **preventec47** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:28 pm

If Malamute had a book I would sure buy it. I really didnt understand all
the things he was saying but there are so many different ways to build
them that following someone who has already figured it out would be priceless.
I'd sure like to see a bunch of his photos if he ever took any showing how
he does his stuff.
I always figured if I was going to build one I would first buy a bunch of dowels
maybe 3/4 or 1 inch in diameter and make a scale model of exactly what I
was going to build so I could work out the notches and braces and structure
ahead of time on the small pieces instead of full size logs and find out
I have to go back and undo some mistake in design later.
The thing I think I saw which could make it all easier is to have
the notches at the ends of the logs use 90 degree perfect square
cuts instead of V-Grooves or round cuts etc. That way I could probably
make a JIG to cut the notches always the same length apart and
width. The only thing I would have to vary might be the depth of the
cut and use of a chain saw to make the notches would be real easy and
fast.
I also learned that the bottom log should always have the rounded top with
the scoop impression cut out of the log above to insure when driven rain
hits the log the downhill path is always to the outside of the structure.
Has anyone ever been to the big log home shows they have in the bigger
cities ? I went to one and it was great. I think there are some log home
builder forums especially for us guys interested in building them.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:03 pm

I have a bunch of pictures taken during construction, but they are photos, not digital. I don't have a scanner. If I can find them and get them scanned, I'll dredge this topic up again. I think I know where the log winch pictures are tho,......

First cabin I built, I just looked at a couple pictures (actually drawings), one was in "Cache Lake Country", and one was in "The Wilderness Cabin" by Rutstrum, and decided to give it a shot. Turned out OK.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:55 pm

I know people are going to disagree with me, but: those lines a parralel in X and perpendicular in Y
GOOD JOB!

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:56 pm

That is a 4/12 roof , right?

preventec47 · Post by **preventec47** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:37 am

I have to first congratulate Malamute as there isnt a single tree as far as the eye
can see in the background. I hope he didnt cut and drag em all up there himself.

see the pics below regarding what I was referring to as 90 degree cuts on corners.
I think by being able to drill holes and insert steel rods, we dont have to worry
about the notches holding the logs together like in the old days.

The pics dont show it but I would still like to use round logs with the square
end cuts as cutting the sides flat is a whole lot of work.

Scratch the photos as I dont see a way to upload them and I dont have them on
a server anywhere...? ? ? I thought we could "upload" photos and not just
link to them. Oh well.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:52 pm

I'm not sure what you mean about steel rods and the ends being square cut.

Making corner notches take some time, but isn't difficult to do. It results in a much stronger, and somewhat flexible structure. There was a quake in easten Alaska a few years ago, but when asked why there wasnt much damage, the reply I heard was "There isn't a large population there, and many of the houses in that area are log cabins, they are flexible enough to resist quake damage". Interesting.

For a smaller cabin, "V" plank corners work OK. They aren't that tough for larger structures. My current cabin is 14x18 and has V plank corners. I built corners out of rough cut (thicker material) 2x6's and 2x8's made into even corners. Brace them and start cuttling logs to length, screwing them in with several black log screws. I had one buy help me, we were able to lift by hand the smaller logs used. I think we used the rope come-a-long to get the ridge in place. I want to have some steel corner braces made up to reinforce the corners in case of a quake, but other than that, it works fine for a small place. I built on concrete piers (sonotubes) and did corner notch my first layer of logs to tie them together, then went to the v planks. I screwd the floor into the first row of logs, and later insulated under the floor and put up OSB to keep varmints out fo the insulation. I later skirted it with scrap OSB to keep cold and critters out.

I'll try to get a couple pics of the v plank corners.

KCSO · Post by **KCSO** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:50 pm

PM me with an e mail address and I will send yo pictures of the log line shacks and house that a freind and i made/restored. I did the forge work and the tools including a slick from a car spring.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:59 pm

KSCO,
did you get PM?

Jarhead · Post by **Jarhead** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:34 pm

Malamute wrote:I have a bunch of pictures taken during construction, but they are photos, not digital. I don't have a scanner. If I can find them and get them scanned, I'll dredge this topic up again. I think I know where the log winch pictures are tho,......

First cabin I built, I just looked at a couple pictures (actually drawings), one was in "Cache Lake Country", and one was in "The Wilderness Cabin" by Rutstrum, and decided to give it a shot. Turned out OK.

Nice Pics..I like it! That's all you need.

preventec47 · Post by **preventec47** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:36 pm

There are a lot of good photos of different kinds of log cabins over
at this LogCabin Design and building Forum group.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LogCabinBuilding/

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:21 pm

Here's a picture of the V plank corner. I put the corners together out of a 2x6 and a 2x8 board, in rough cut lumber, using 5" torx screws. I used 10" or 12" black log screws thru the corners into the logs, 2 per log. You want to stagger the location of the screws so you don't make a split in the grain of the wood from too many screws in line. Works OK for small structures, but isn't tough enough for larger structures. Usually seen with the corners boxed in to cover them. Never seem to have time to do the details on my own stuff.

slickrock · Post by **slickrock** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:05 pm

I gave up showing folks our log cabins after we saw Richard Proenneke's work in the PBS show "One Man's Wilderness", the book didn't do the cabin building justice.

oughta hold up a TV station if that's what it takes to see it, it's that good.