.357 Revolver Suggestions

[pharmseller]

>I haven't even come close ...
.
.
.
...t in and of itself should back up what I'm saying.

But it won't. At least not to those who won't listen.

Good Day.

Joe

Wow. That is the most bizarre post I have ever read. Goofy logic, bizarre statements, unverified "facts", entertaining spelling/grammar and a few personal attacks thrown in for good measure. It's all there. A true masterpiece. Definitely worthy of the shooting range bulletin board. Thanks!

That's mean of you, kasTX. I followed the logic pretty well. In his experience he's had issues with S&W but not Ruger. He got specific with what those issues were.
As to the grammar, no one is being graded on their typing or spelling. To mention it is just plain mean.

Quinn

[Teek]

Oh, where to begin!? Steve and txpete, no, I'm NOT a member of XL Sportster forum, but I may wander over there if y'all are there...don't know...I'm a member of a couple of other ones. Shoot me a PM if ya wanna chat some more about it...or email me...I'll see if I can enable my email on this forum.

As much as I like S&W revolvers and I HIGHLY recommend them, I won't even TRY to say they are as "durable" as the Ruger. My K-frame M65 isn't loose a bit, but I don't shoot thousands of full house loads through it, either. I don't own an N frame because right now, I don't have a use for one that the K-frame won't handle. My PERSONAL use. Either Smith or Rugers are good guns, but I think the nod goes to Ruger for value and durability. Joe didn't "darn" Smiths....he just compared them with the Ruger based upon his experience and the experience of others, which is extensive, I might add. Now, when S&W was British owned? Oh, hell yeah, most of us made damning statements about S&W THEN! And they were mostly pretty brutal!

If I ever replace my M65 it would probably be to a Ruger GP100, but I'm still not ruling out Smith. Either one would serve my needs nicely. I just like the way Ruger feels in my hand. Bottom line, personal preference, personal preference, personal preference!

Teek

[kasTX]

As to the grammar, no one is being graded on their typing or spelling. To mention it is just plain mean.

I don't agree that it was mean (certainly not in light of his comments directed at me), but agree that perfect spelling and grammar are not expected in a forum like this. I'm sure my prior posts have errors as well. I have deleted that comment from the original post in case others might find it offensive, and have toned down the rest since the purpose really isn't to annoy anyone.

The post that originated this thread simply asked what a good .357 revolver might be for practice, some packing, some self defense, etc. The response that caught my attention was as follows:

They are as far beyond the S&Ws in durability as you can get.

I seriously don't know how anyone could read that as anything other than a condemnation of S&W products. To make such a statement, one would have to have some pretty solid data. As it turns out, that data consists of his experience with a few guns. That is fine, and certainly valid data, but clearly not enough to condemn an entire manufacturer. I can think of two Rugers that I have owned (10/22 and Single Six) that were not so great, but I would be hesitant to condemn Ruger or draw conclusions about their entire product line based on those two experiences.

So are the Rugers more durable than the S&Ws? I really have no idea. One would definitely have to qualify which particular guns were being compared. The Rugers are generally bulkier and heavier, but that may be due to the materials used - it is my understanding that Rugers are cast, while S&Ws are forged. A controlled experiment would be nice, but I have never heard of one being done (have Ruger and S&W revolvers ever gone head to head in any military or law enforcement procurement trials that included durability?). Finally, if the Rugers are stronger than the S&Ws, would it matter? Apparently not, as S&W revolvers in one form or another have served through two world wars, multiple regional conflicts, and nearly a century of law enforcement and civilian use with no small amount of success.

Bottom line, personal preference, personal preference, personal preference!

Bingo.

[Rexster]

I have never kept records of number of rounds fired, and in any event, still have very few of my S&W sixguns. My perception is that S&W sixguns are strong enough to handle a high number of rounds, but they tend to go out of time quicker than a Ruger. One reason may be that the Ruger mechanism "pre-times" to a greater degree than S&W. I have handled NIB S&W sixguns that did not pre-time properly, at least not on all cylinders, particularly ones produced during the Bangor Punta era. Detail stripping both brands reinforces my perception that an S&W is simply not as sturdy of a mechanism as the Ruger DA. I am not saying I dislike S&W! I like BOTH brands! OK? OK! FWIW, I do not get my perception of Ruger strength from looking at the external dimensions of the frames and cylinders, but from the smaller moving parts. I feel sure S&W frames and cylinders are engineered to be plenty strong enough.

[txpete]

sure isn't the leverguns of old pretty sad stuff.oh well.
happy new year
pete

[C. Cash]

Hard to beat a good Security Six. Mine shoots as good or nearly so as my old GP-100, and it belonged to my Dad which makes it a bit more special.

[Old Ironsights]

I'll tell you what, I got two worn out S&Ws that would not be worn out had they been Rugers.

They are as far beyond the S&Ws in durability as you can get.

...but I been there and done that when it comes to Smiths.

You have made a very powerful, very damning statement about Smith and Wesson products. I think that warrants a full explanation, including details about how you came to your conclusion. So please, enlighten us.

I now yield the floor to the gentleman with the comprehensive collection of well-researched and statistically relevant firearms durability information...

Can't speak to JMiller's experiences, but here's mine:

I was at a Police Range in Oklahoma about 20 years ago where reps from various companies were showing off their wares.

The S&W rep showed off some very nice, highly accurate revolvers - all everyone had come to expect.

The Ruger rep got up to show off the then (IIRC) relatively new GP100.

He put the gun through all the standard paces as the S&W guy showing good accuracy, decent fit & finish, etc. All the things we've come to expect from Rugers.

However, as he was talking - after his live fire bit - he dumped the empties and reloaded 6 blanks.

We wonered what he was up to. As he was talking about investment casting and component subgroups he dropped his gun hand an flung the GP100 as high as he could into the air!

WHAM! Right onto the asphalt.

Then he did it again. WHAM! And again! WHAM!

He then picked it back up and said... Oh, it looks like it landed on the hammer spur... No matter.

Pointed the gun down range and rapped off all six blanks, dumped the empties dropped in 6 Rem 125s and rapped THEM off into a nice offhand combat group.

He then went over to the table where he had each subassembly laid out (from another gun), pulled the broken hammer sub out of the thrown GP, dropped in the new one, and said to the S&W guys

"Would the Representative from S&W like to do this experiment with his gun?"

They soundly refused saying they didn't want to ruin a perfectly good gun.

The Ruger guy looked at us and said - "That's my point. I Didn't." and sat back down.

I've pretty much been sold on Ruger durability since.

Love S&W lines, but I'd rather fly a Warthog than a Tomcat...

[pharmseller]

Gutsy! I love it when a rep has the cojones to pull a stunt like that.

Quinn

[Lastmohecken]

I like a 4" barreled double action stainless revolver with fixed sights, such as a S&W 65. Roll my own ammo, so I can tune the ammo to the projected situation. Hogue rubber grips.

The 4" barrel gives me enough sight radius to be accurate at 35 or so yards or less, stainless is more weather and finish resistant, fixed sights are more accurate than I am and don't get broken or knocked out of alignment as easy as adjustable, and I like the "point and shoot" interface of the DA trigger.

Guns are tools, and different tools are required for different projects. So...different guns are nice to have for different uses. The "household claw hammer" of handguns would be a four inch, fixed sight, stainless DA revolver in .357.

Ruger SP101 with 3" barrel is a great little accurate and durable gun very suitable for woods carry if it were legal in your area....but it's not.

So, I guess the bottom line is get a DOUBLE ACTION revolver with a 4 or 6" barrel....in stainless, unless you prefer blued...with fixed sights, unless you prefer adjustable...in a S&W, unless you prefer Ruger, or Taurus, or...





Oh, and Steve...here's mine!


Teek

That's a nice sportster, 07 isn't it? Here's a picture of my old 98 Wide Glide.[img][/img]

[Lastmohecken]

Smith and Wessons vs Rugers? I guess I will add my 2cents worth.

Back in the 70's and 80's and early 90's, I managed to wear out one Ruger and 3 each Smith and Wessons. I wore out my first Ruger Stainless Single Six, and had to get it rebuilt, I wore out a Smith K22 and had to get it rebuilt. I wore out a Smith 6 inch 586 and had to rebuild it. And I wore out a Smith and Wesson 25-5 N-Frame 45ACP revolver and had to get it rebuilt.

None of the rebuilds were as good as new, so I eventually sold all of them and purchased others. While I don't have actual records of rounds fired, it was a lot, but not as many as one might think. Here is my thoughts on it.

I believe a Ruger single six will wear out faster then a Smith and Wesson K22 because the smith is a smoother shooting gun, and the parts seem to mesh together better.

However, when we get to bigger guns, the Rugers probably will outlast a Smith, I am sure this is true, when compairing a Ruger Super Blackhawk to a Smith Model 29.

A K-Frame 357 like the model 19 will develope end shake faster then some guns. An L-Frame 357 will handle a lot of shooting, but I did manage to wear one out, but I shot it with a steady diet of heavy handloads.

I never wore out a GP 100, but I must confess I never had the stamina to pull that harder trigger pull on the Ruger enough times to find out, compaired to the much smoother trigger pull I could get on the Smiths, and the same goes for the Ruger Redhawk.

In all fairness though, the Rugers probably will hold up better under heavy recoiling rounds then a Smith and Wesson, but I would rather shoot a Smith and Wesson, because I like the trigger pulls better.

But you know on second thought, I shot a Ruger Bisley 44 mag quite a bit, but not really as much as one might thing, and it was still a good gun when I sold it, but it was getting looser all of the time, who knows how long it would have lasted. I am not totaly convinced the Rugers will last all that much longer, however they probably will hold up longer regarding endshake issues, but timming wise, they will get out of time, also, but maybe not quite as quick as a model 29.

[txpete]

I guess maybe I am old school but even if someone was shooting a beater at the range it was always "nice gun" hows it shoot.
maybe I just don't fit in here anymore.
pete

[Bosco]

I uesd to carry a 4" 7 shot 686. I have used a 629 Mountian Gun for CCW. For the CCW and hunting equation I think you want two different guns. Weight and bulk, single and double action will be some of your tougher questions to anwser. Otherwise they are all good and they all shoot and depending on the load they can all get the things you listed done if you do your part. What ever you go with will be the right choice for you until you change your mind and want something else for your own reasons. Potentially anyone will ridicule your choice, including the person who recommended the choice to you. Experiment, try out, study listen with a grain of salt. Have confidence in your choice for your reasons. Most importantly enjoy!
Bosco

What direction are you leaning?

[Warhawk]

My favorite 357 is a 6 inch S&W Model 28 Highway Patrolman, and when I find a decent 4 incher for a decent price, I'll own it too. I own a few other S&W and Ruger 357s. No question the Rugers are more durable, just as there is no question that the Smiths are a more finely made gun, with a better trigger and *I* personally shoot a Smith better than any other revolver I've tried.

TXPETE: The scooter below is mine, I've got a very good friend down your way, in Troy, who rides a Road Glide.

This pic was taken atop Independence Pass in Colorado during last summers trip out west.

[txpete]

gotta love the big twin nice bike.
I rode this one around germany ect while stationed there.a real slug on the autobahn .
pete

1977 shovelhead

[Warhawk]

I was at Bitburg from '86 - '88, I didn't have a bike over there, but don't think a Harley would have been the best bike for the Autobahn, but it sure would have been nice for the backroads, if you could ever catch it when it wasn't raining.

[txpete]

I spent 9 years over there between nurnberg 2nd acr and mainz 8th cab.
pete

[Old Ironsights]

I spent a little over 2 in Babenhausen (or my "hide" up near Fulda Gap...) with occasional jaunts to Grafenwoehr.

[brucew44guns]

If you use and carry a sidearm quite a bit, the stainless guns hold up well in a holster, no blueing to wear off. I like both and have both, but I don't carry a gun around a lot. I really like my 686 S&W in 6 inch, and I'm a good shot with my Blackhawk in 7 1/2 inch with Bisely grip. You need to get to a Gun Show where hundreds of handguns are layed out on tables, and ask permission to pick up a few of them and test them in your hands. You'll find a beauty that was made for you. No need to buy one you regret, ( if that is possible) Bruce

[bdhold]

686 6"



wonderful firearm, great under the seat, but not quite a pocket carry

[RustyJr]

I will have to go with the others that suggest a Ruger Security Six. Mine us a stainless model with a 4" barrel. Bought it used for around $350 several years ago. Someone must have done some work to it before I bought it because the trigger and action are aaaalllmmoosstt as smooth as my dad's S&W model 28. The thing I like about it over his Smith (although his is very nice) is the fact that it is lighter and handier (at least to me). If your wanting to use it for self defense I would suggest the double actions just for the ability to reload faster. I know there are those that six rounds is more than enough but having the ability to reload quickly if necassary can be comforting. What ever you choose make sure its what you like and what you are comfortable with because in the end its you who will be using and carrying it. If you lived a little closer I'd let you try mine to see f you liked it


RustyJr

[1894c]

Ruger GP-100 or my favorite Ruger Blawkhawk... :)

0309.jpg

[FWiedner]

Wow. Talk about raising the dead. I posted in this thread once before back in 2007.

Then, as the thread progressed, I was persuaded to retire my Python and invest in a GP100.

I do not regret the upgrade.

[Old Ironsights]

Wow. Talk about raising the dead. I posted in this thread once before back in 2007.

Then, as the thread progressed, I was persuaded to retire my Python and invest in a GP100.

I do not regret the upgrade.

+1.

If I was inclined to buy a "service" revolver it would be a GP100...

[El Chivo]

this has been around a long time; you'd think I would've made a decision, but I haven't yet.

However, the target range where I shoot now has guns for sale, and they have both the GP-100 and SW 686 in 4" stainless.

Both felt identical in balance and comort. I wasn't able to pull the triggers, but I did open the cylinders and push the ejection rods, and I could see more smoothness with the Smith. I preferred it, and it probably won't get worn out - just carried and shot minimally at the range. A smoother DA trigger pull is a big plus, and I preferred the thumb push to unlatch the cylinder to the finger-poke of the Ruger. However the strength of the Ruger is making me reconsider it.

Thanks for all the opinions.

[2ndovc]

The only .357 Magnum Revolver I have is an S&W 66 police surplus
"detective special" w 2 1/2" BBL. Single action pull is @ 2 oz.

jb

[Streetstar]

Wow. Talk about raising the dead. I posted in this thread once before back in 2007.

Then, as the thread progressed, I was persuaded to retire my Python and invest in a GP100.

I do not regret the upgrade.

"Upgrade"?

Did you put the Python in a red velvet lined shadow box or something ?

I also have a passel of Pythons and sadly -- i have done the same thing when its time for field work.
I still love to look at them, naturally, but i recently had a Det. Special "lock up" on me and i haven't got it fixed yet --- the hammer is back and the cylinger is halfway through its rotation, but it doesn't move
It was then that i started thinking about an alternative to the obsolete Colt lockwork that nobody can work on anymore.
I also have a Mark 3 Lawman that seems to be a much sturdier design for a field gun ----

--- but but but ... field gun honors now go to Gaston Glock and his model 20. Full house 10mm pack as much punch as a .357 while holding 15 rounds instead of 6. On paper, 15 rounds sounds silly, but in the field, if a scared 375 pound hog is about to run over you -- logic flies out the window

I still want a nice Model 66 for another range gun or occasional field gun. It may be an odd combo, but i have no qualms with pairing my Glock with a levergun for a field combo now though

---

[Griff]

Wow! 10 days from its 4th birthday and we ressurrect THIS thread? And just 20 days shy of a 4 year gap from the last post, too!

I don't recall seeing this one before... bit I sure miss some of the gentlemen that posted up their opinions!

In answer to the OP, I have one DA .357 and 2 SA in that caliber, a S&W mdl 65, Colt SAA & a Colr clone. I'm not hesitant to recommend any of the 3. But, since the 65 is no longer made, and the very real posibility that abuse is not all that uncommon, real care should be used when buying one.

[Triggernosis]

Well, heck - now that this thread has reincarnated itself, here's my suggestion:
http://www.ruger.com/products/sp101/models.html

[grouse]

My woods bumming-back up protection gun is a Ruger SP101!

Lightweight, powerfull, accurate, double action fast, conceals easy, made of stainless steel. What's not to like?

Anyway works for me.

[Chuck 100 yd]

I like em all. My Ruger SP101 3" is SWEET and very accurate. My Ruger single actions are great and a hoot to enjoy.
But my favorite is my Ruger Security Six 2 1/2" SS .357
Just super accurate and easy to pack.
I carry in a Bianchi pancake or in this holster I made.
(still needed the snap when the pic was taken.

The 101 is not in this pic. (still new!!)

[BAGTIC]

What gave you the idea you would see that cougar? They are typically ambush predators and odds are you will feel it before you ever see it.

[horsesoldier03]

I had a sweet S&W 586 4" Nickel .357, GOD I am sorry I ever let it go! IMO, any S&W K or L frame is awesome!

[pokey]

late to the party, as usual.

check out some of these articles,

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/OtherHandguns.htm

[Streetstar]

What gave you the idea you would see that cougar? They are typically ambush predators and odds are you will feel it before you ever see it.

Yes, ... but i could likely smell her Kissing Potion and tanning spray from 100 yards out (bad joke -- i know the correlation between real cougars and 45 year old tramps is getting old --- sorry)

[L_Kilkenny]

Bit late to the party myself but man, is it really possible to recommend one .357 outta all the great ones? SA or DA, Ruger or Smith or whatever, etc etc etc etc. IMO, you could toss 20 or more .357's from a half dozen manufactures into a grab bag, reach in, pull out one and more than likely be very happy with the choice. I think it would be easier to make a list of ones to avoid.

Me? I like the Security Six because it's the one I pulled out of the grab bag.

LK

[big bear]

I like S&W's. They are what I carried, trained with and lived with. THE VERY FIRST .357 was what we now know as the M27 S&W. I had a 5" for duty carry and while it was heavy, it was as accurate a handgun as you'd ever want for duty carry. Water over the dam and guns through the hand I don't have that one any more but I do have a 4" M28 that's so close it does just fine. The heavy weight of the "N" frame Smiths just soaks up recoil like nobody's business and you could never wear one out.

Rusty <><

I second the motion. Smith&Wesson M27 pinned barrel, 5" length, Herrett custom wood grips.... THE 357 for wise old guys. Tried a Python, too finicky and the others just aren't pretty enough. Got one 357 and that's what it is, all I want, need. Merry Christmas by the way!

[Charles]

I got my first Smith and Wesson N frame (Mod. 28) 357 Magnum in 1963. I have always had one or more since that time. I only have two now (4" and 6" Mod 28s). I have never wore one out or shot it out of time. I guess I just don't shoot enough to do that.

If I wanted a new 357 Mag. and didn't have one, I would look for a Smith N frame again.

This is not part of a "my pistol is better than your pistol" thing, just what I have done, still do and would do again.

[kevin in nh]

I don't shoot thousands of rounds through any one gun, I just like guns!

Colt Pythons


Smith & Wesson Model 27 5" and Model 13 3"

[pdawg.shooter]

Colt Python. Most accurate handgun I have ever had. Nuff said.

[Tumbleweeds II]

A dealer on the Ruger forum has a SP101 with a 4" barrel. I think a limited factory run. Might make a nice sized carry gun.

Just saying.

[El Chivo]

Today I shot some groups with both the S&W 686 and the Ruger GP-100.

I think I liked the Ruger better; the 6" was more accurate for me up close, and the 4" better farther away. I preferred the recoil and muzzle blast of the 6" but it is heavier and longer. I felt like I had better overall control of the 4", however I got a nice tight group with the 6".

Coming down to personal preference, the Rugers seemed more solid and the triggers felt better. They seemed to be more stable both before and after the shot. The pull of the Rugers seemed to suit me better, with the Smith the initial pull was easy but got tough at the end, and the actual break was like a tricky surprise. The pull of the Ruger was hard enough but seemed more honest and predictable. However, the Rugers were well broken in and the Smith was nearly new.

The gunspert who discussed them with me pointed out that the Ruger is overbuilt, especially at the top strap, accounting for the solid feel.




This pic shows my targets, each has 5 DA shots and some have a sixth SA attempt.

Across the top are: S&W 686 4", Ruger GP-100 4; Ruger GP-100 6"; and again Ruger GP-100 4"; all @ 20 ft. Across the bottom are the same guns but range is 50 ft.

So, I LIKE that group of four in the Ruger 6" 20 ft, however it did not fare so well at 50ft. I shot two cylinders full of this one at 50 ft and also hit the mounting clip. You can see bullet fragments shredded the paper. I think the sights had something to do with it, plus I was getting tired. For some of the later groups I had to pull the trigger with two fingers.

Even with the short sight radius, I seemed to do better at 50 ft with the 4" guns. One thing I noticed, the sights on the 6" were a different level of blurriness because they are farther apart. My attempts at blur interpretation may have resulted in this inaccuracy. The 4" models have sights that are closer to each other and so front and rear sights are about the same degree of fuzziness, and seemed easier to line up. However, I can't help but think if I work with the sights somehow the 6" will end up being more accurate.

Well my wrist is sore and I'm tired out after 50 rounds, revolvers are hard work.

[Streetstar]

Colt Python. Most accurate handgun I have ever had. Nuff said.

I agree --- sadly though, i had a poor experience with a Det Special locking up on me recently and i thought about the shortage of qualified Colt D-A smith's now and have decided that the Pythons i have will be retired to "parade duty"

I am currently shopping for the best deal on a Model 66 4"

[Meeteetse]

Ruger Blackhawk with a 4 5/8" bbl. is one of the most versatile guns out there. You may prefer double action but a second shot can be pretty speedy with a single action gun with just a little practice, and I think more accurate. Haven't checked lately, but I think the Blackhawk is less expensive and will last several life times shooting mild to wild loads. I have a couple of them that I have enjoyed for the last 40 years. Add the 9mm conversion option and you have a wide range of ammo to choose from.

[Lastmohecken]

Well, I guess everyone has about said it all. For shooting, I like the model 27 Smith, and the 586 L-Frame, but for carrying I would rather have a 4 inch Model 19, or a Ruger BlackHawk with a 4-4/8" barrel.

I actually did wear out my first 6 inch model 586, shooting heavy loads in competition and had to have it rebuilt. It was a great gun for fast double action shooting, using major loads, but I found it kind of heavy to pack on a belt.

Frankly, on a lot of frames, I sorta lean towards the 44's and 45's because they seem lighter for field carry, due the the bigger holes in the cylinders and barrels.

[tman]

WHEN i hit the lottery, Colt python and a new frontier are close to the top of my list.

[Streetstar]

WHEN i hit the lottery, Colt python and a new frontier are close to the top of my list.

You and me both ! I "back-doored" into a couple of Pythons already, but have not been able to find similarly sweet deals on any SAA's
A 7.5" New Frontier is close to the tippy top of my desired single action list (only in .45, not 357)