Anyone else like red dots on long guns..?

[Scrumbag]

Is anyone else more and more liking red dots on their long guns. I've suddenly noticed I've gotten rather a few.

It started with me looking for a way to put an optical sight on my 9.3x62 - an old hunting rifle that wasn't drilled and tapped so a scope wasn't an option but a good buddy of mine suggested a reflex dot on a custom cut dovetail mount to replace the front sight.

So, I tried it and liked it:



Next came the pump shotgun. Here in the UK we shoot pump actions and semi autos at turning targets with slugs. I tried my supernova with an iron sighted slug barrel but hated the sights (just grey on grey and lost them) so a bit of "googling" turned up the Burris Speed Bead and a Fast Fire III (3MOA)









And a big improvement in enjoyment and scores. Not the last time I’ll put a red dot on a shotgun it turns out...

Then there came the lever action.

Started off with a red dot, went to a scout scope then decided to go back to a red dot (mainly because of local range rules it isn’t so easy to shoot shotgun slugs but a 44 mag lever action is no problem). So, for the same sight picture as my slug guns, have gone back to another Burris:



(Must get a better picture)

Them came the idea of what to do with a rifle I had that I wanted to use for hunting but I had a 6-24x56 scope on with a very fine ret and I had an 8x56 fixed scope sitting around. This 8x56 is great for sitting in a dark wood but not great for quick target acquisition if you bump a deer on the way in or out. So, borrowing from the tactical and 3 gun crowd I put a red dot on the side of my 8x56 and took it hunting:







(That’s actually on my little Brno .22lr that I used to practice / work up with to see if I liked the concept). It went on the 7x64 Mausingfield after that).

Finally, there’s the other shotgun.

It’s a Fabarm H368 (Not sure they went to the US). Anyway, with a 26” multi choke and a 24” rifle sighted barrel for not a lot of money it was too good to pass up.





Think it looks cool “naked” using the man sights (fibre optics and really need to see when I can get it zeroed with those as well).

Anyway, given how much I liked my pump with a red dot, thought might as well stick a Burris on that. Given the receiver has ~11mm dovetail grooves, thought I might try and use those.





You can get a dovetail mount from people like Recknagel and Rusan in Europe that lets you mount red dots to dovetails quite easily but they have a little retaining pin in the underside:



So, there needed to be a small hole drilled in the receiver of the Fabarm:



After that, it became a simple matter of mounting the red dot on with the QD dovetail mount.









So, I like that system as don’t have to have a bulky rail in the way if I want to go from slug shooting to wing shooting and that appeals (The Benelli with the Speed Bead you have to unscrew stuff to take the red dot off, rather less neat).

Here's sort of the sight picture:



And the gun in it’s entirety (Stock actually fits me well so need a bit of lift to be aligned with the red dot)



So, apparently like I like red dots. A lot…. (Hello. My name is Scrumbag and I’m a red-dot-aholic…) Anyone else using red dots on their long guns more than they thought they would?

Scrummy

[GunnyMack]

I'm not but I like that one you have on your Nova- how is it mounted?

[joepb]

My old eyes have a hard time with peep sights. I now have 4 long guns with red dots on them. I like them!!!..............Joe

[Sixgun]

Believe it depends on how old you are………..I was “raised” on open sights and after a lifetime of shooting the old antique Winchesters I’ve come to believe that receiver/tang sights are the fastest to get on target………to me, adding glass of any sort is a hinderence and at 69 I don’t plan to change as long as the yardage is below 250 or so as I can still shoot near moa out to 200 meters. Anything further, magnification is necessary.

If the rifle is up to it and I’m not shaking, it’s no problem to hit a beer can at 300 meters with an open sighted 1886 as long as the can is painted white and there’s little wind. Glass at short ranges (out to 200 meters according to conditions) are a solution to a non existent problem.

This ‘86 in 40-65 is a near moa out to 300 meters…after that the short bullet and a slow twist results in how some people shoot 25 yards with a revolver….you know, “pattern groups”. We see them here all the time, usually from upstate Pa. or Ohio.



This is a genuine gallon jug shooter out to 500 meters.38-55 with a 270 gas check.

[marlinman93]

I used a red dot for bullseye matches for a long time back 30 years ago. An Aimpoint, not a heads up display as shown above.
But I bought an AR15 on a lark maybe 5 years ago, and I put a heads up display red dot on it. Much different than my old Aimpoint as it has 4 different crossharis with a normal crosshair, then a crosshair with circle, a circle only, and a dot. And two color choices, red or green. Plus 10 brightness settings.
I think it will do the dishes too if I figure out how to set all that?

[Scrumbag]

I'm not but I like that one you have on your Nova- how is it mounted?

Something called a Burris Speed Bead. (Sits at the back of the receiver with a ring held in place between stock and receiver. Not sure they make them for the super nova anymore as think the Nova's and Supernovas come drilled and tapped for a rail these days).

Scrummy

[Scrumbag]

My old eyes have a hard time with peep sights. I now have 4 long guns with red dots on them. I like them!!!..............Joe

Excellent stuff! Pictures?

[Scrumbag]

I used a red dot for bullseye matches for a long time back 30 years ago. An Aimpoint, not a heads up display as shown above.
But I bought an AR15 on a lark maybe 5 years ago, and I put a heads up display red dot on it. Much different than my old Aimpoint as it has 4 different crossharis with a normal crosshair, then a crosshair with circle, a circle only, and a dot. And two color choices, red or green. Plus 10 brightness settings.
I think it will do the dishes too if I figure out how to set all that?

They do have their uses!

[Scrumbag]

Believe it depends on how old you are………..I was “raised” on open sights and after a lifetime of shooting the old antique Winchesters I’ve come to believe that receiver/tang sights are the fastest to get on target………to me, adding glass of any sort is a hinderence and at 69 I don’t plan to change as long as the yardage is below 250 or so as I can still shoot near moa out to 200 meters. Anything further, magnification is necessary.

If the rifle is up to it and I’m not shaking, it’s no problem to hit a beer can at 300 meters with an open sighted 1886 as long as the can is painted white and there’s little wind. Glass at short ranges (out to 200 meters according to conditions) are a solution to a non existent problem.

This ‘86 in 40-65 is a near moa out to 300 meters…after that the short bullet and a slow twist results in how some people shoot 25 yards with a revolver….you know, “pattern groups”. We see them here all the time, usually from upstate Pa. or Ohio.



This is a genuine gallon jug shooter out to 500 meters.38-55 with a 270 gas check.

Oh I like peep sights too. Have a Skinner on a Brno .22lr, an XX on the back of my 44 mag lever action and a Rigby style cocking piece sight on my 9,3x62. Lots of fun.

[AJMD429]

.
I do, if I want speed and don't need magnification.

However, there are other sight arrangements I like....

The Marbles Bullseye is still the winner for FASTEST to get on-target with for me, and since it combines the 'ghost ring' AND the precision 'aperture' in one sight PLUS is such tough steel I don't think you could break it if you tried, it makes an ideal 'home defense' gun sight.

The Williams FP is also great, for similar reasons, and I compromise by removing the aperture once I sight it in. It is still pretty accurate and still pretty fast.

The holographic and/or red dot sights are nice though, and especially for NIGHT use - combined with appropriate light and/or laser units.

For the Marbles Bullseye and Williams FP see this thread -
>>>http://www.levergunscommunity.org/viewt ... 74#p390174

For the 'Night Scout' Leverguns using red-dot and laser/lights, I posted this (with links to sub-threads) long ago -
>>>http://www.levergunscommunity.org/viewt ... 83#p583183

I really like THIS light/laser for any night/home protection use, on everything from full-size pistols to long guns....but it is PRICEY....


(https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1016309746?pid=146925)

Combined with the auto-adjusting dot Burris Fastfire-II, which is a natural for low/no light situations, you get a dual red-dot and green-dot - set up the green for 'close' where you'd use a laser, and the red dot for 'out there' more where you would be less likely to use the laser.



You'll be looking through the red-dot from above-bore, so it will be more parallel to your bullet trajectory, but the green may (or may not, depending on the setup) be below-bore, so will 'angle-up' and only be right on at a narrow range, but that's fine since you have the red dot, plus if you don't mind being "an inch high" or so, you can put the green dot on-target at a fairly far distance out. I'd say "green dot for inside the house or snap-shooting" and "red-dot for if you have to go out to deal with coyotes in the goat pen or whatever". WIth some setups like an AR, or if you use a cheek-riser, you may put the laser/light in front of a higher red-dot like the HoloSun or others designed to 'co-witness' with AR flip-ups, which changes the red vs green dot dynamics. Anyway, it is hard to describe but once you use a setup like that it is really hard to beat for stuff out to 75 yards like feral cats or possums. Not maybe ideal for two-legged predators, as they probably shoot at shiny things and lights (wish I had a $10,000 true milspec Night Vision setup, but Uncle Sam left them all oversesas for ISIS... )

[Bullard4075]

Good info.

[Streetstar]

.
I do, if I want speed and don't need magnification.

However, there are other sight arrangements I like....

The Marbles Bullseye is still the winner for FASTEST to get on-target with for me, and since it combines the 'ghost ring' AND the precision 'aperture' in one sight PLUS is such tough steel I don't think you could break it if you tried, it makes an ideal 'home defense' gun sight.

I have this sight on a model 94 carbine and it works very well, but I contemplated drifting it out and adding a scout rail. There is one that slots into the dovetail and lines up with the front receiver mount holes from Emerson I think. Not sure on that project yet though. Kinda’ thinking — if it ain’t broke don’t fix it

[JimT]

I don't want anything electronic on self-defense guns or hunting guns. It's too easy for failure at a critical time. Yes, there are lots of arguments about how dependable they are. At my age I don't care about statistics. I like what I've used for more than 65 years. They still work for me. If you prefer those kind of sights and they work for you, enjoy them and get to be the best shot you can with them. I will not argue that "my way is best" because it is not. It's just what I am used to and what I want to use.

[Grizz]

I don't want anything electronic on self-defense guns or hunting guns. It's too easy for failure at a critical time. Yes, there are lots of arguments about how dependable they are. At my age I don't care about statistics. I like what I've used for more than 65 years. They still work for me. If you prefer those kind of sights and they work for you, enjoy them and get to be the best shot you can with them. I will not argue that "my way is best" because it is not. It's just what I am used to and what I want to use.

I can argue that your way is best, but it's like trying to persuade someone that driving a stick shift makes you a better driver . . .

[JimT]

I can argue that your way is best, but it's like trying to persuade someone that driving a stick shift makes you a better driver . . .

I told my daughters never to date a guy who could not drive a stick shift.
It was one suggestion they both followed.

[Scrumbag]

I know what people mean about batteries and electronics but more and more people are learning to shoot with optical sights rather than irons these days.

Scrummy

[JimT]

Learn to shoot with them all. The skill set may be needed sometime. Whatever you choose to use, do so because it fits you better and you are more comfortable with it. Never be influenced by what others do. Learn what works for you. I shot Combat Matches years ago and there was a guy shooting with us who was not a "gun" person. But he had been held up at gunpoint and it affected him enough he wanted to learn how to shoot and defend his home. He chose the 1911 but had problems with sighting. In the end he had a white stripe on top of the slide instead of sights. The stripe was as wide as the rear sight had been at the back and tapered to almost a point near the muzzle. And at "combat" ranges he was deadly with that thing! Didn't work for me but it did for him.

[COSteve]

After using only irons on my AR15 Carbine for 2 decades, earlier this year I got a wild hair and added a small, cheap reflex sight to my rail. As my rear iron sight is a fold down it was simple to add in front and just leave the rear sight folded down.

I'm an irons type most of the time and like Sixgun, I much prefer a tang and globe sight set on my longer leverguns as any glass on them ruins the lines and feel for me. I don't have anything against someone putting one on his but glass optics on a levergun is a non-starter for my tastes.

Anyway, mine cost under $25, has 4 reticles and lights to either red or green and so I figured I try it to see if I'd like a better one. I'm surprised to say that it's easy to use and even through my glasses I can see the reticle clearly. It works well on my AR as a range toy and plinker as it's styled for it but I'm not interested in using one for any other style rifle as the majority of mine are peep sight irons.

Piney Reflex.jpg

[BobM]

I have dots on an AR, a 9mm PCC, a rimfire AR, and my 1187 deer/turkey/home defense shotgun.