Second battle of Adobe Walls

Scott Tschirhart · Post by **Scott Tschirhart** » Sun Jun 11, 2023 7:08 pm

On our way home from the Holiday I’m planning on visiting the Turkey Track Ranch and the grave of Billy Dixon at Adobe Walls.

It’s been too long.

Old No7 · Post by **Old No7** » Sun Jun 11, 2023 8:09 pm

For sure, if I was traveling through that area, I'd stop too!

Would be a hoot to stand near where he did and take a gander way out yonder at where his "targets" were! (Not sure just WHAT is the correct noun to use anymore -- so I will just call them that!)

Old No7

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Mon Jun 12, 2023 3:41 am

Cool I would go out of my way to see that, love history.

Scott Tschirhart · Post by **Scott Tschirhart** » Mon Jun 12, 2023 6:56 am

gamekeeper wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 3:41 am Cool I would go out of my way to see that, love history.

You actually have to go out of your way to see it. I’ll post some photos.

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Mon Jun 12, 2023 6:58 am

Took my daughter there when she was about 12 or so, more than 20 years ago. I'd done a lot of reading about the buffalo hunters -- including "The Life of Billy Dixon." I was also interested because my grandmother, who was born near here in Fisher County, grew up on her Daddy's ranch on the Canadian just upstream from the Turkey Track where the village of Plemons once stood. It is an inspiring place to visit. I hope to see it once more some day.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Mon Jun 12, 2023 8:03 pm

Scott Tschirhart wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 6:56 am
gamekeeper wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2023 3:41 amCool I would go out of my way to see that, love history.
You actually have to go out of your way to see it. I’ll post some photos.

Other'n being in the midst of the 19th century buffalo grounds, there ain't anything around. I've always thought that curious... most other trading posts developed into towns... and ended up being "between & there". Adobe Walls, just ain't!

Scott Tschirhart · Post by **Scott Tschirhart** » Fri Jun 16, 2023 4:34 pm

First onto the Turkey Track Ranch

Scott Tschirhart · Post by **Scott Tschirhart** » Fri Jun 16, 2023 5:51 pm

The site

Scott Tschirhart · Post by **Scott Tschirhart** » Fri Jun 16, 2023 6:15 pm

Billy Dixon’s grave was terribly overgrown

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Fri Jun 16, 2023 6:25 pm

There is some big medicine at that place. Thanks for the visit, Scott.

Scott Tschirhart · Post by **Scott Tschirhart** » Fri Jun 16, 2023 6:32 pm

The bluff where the shot was made is over my right shoulder

JMick · Post by **JMick** » Fri Jun 16, 2023 8:34 pm

Nice, thanks for sharing.

Woodtroll · Post by **Woodtroll** » Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:05 am

Very interesting post, thanks for taking the time to share the photos! I always wondered what that long shot would look like in person.

Scott Tschirhart · Post by **Scott Tschirhart** » Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:17 am

It’s a long shot, but the Buffalo hunters had been shooting at rocks on that bluff so probably helped Dixon to range that shot. Not taking anything away from him. He did it.

Woodtroll · Post by **Woodtroll** » Sat Jun 17, 2023 7:26 am

He certainly did, although I read somewhere he said it was a "lucky shot". But a man good with a gun, especially one that is familiar to him, can have a lot of "luck" with it. Sort of like some of the Elmer Keith stories folks refuse to believe. I've never approached his level, of course, but once spent enough time shooting handguns to get good enough that I believed his stories about shooting at distance were certainly possible.

piller · Post by **piller** » Sat Jun 17, 2023 2:26 pm

Luck seems to favor those who practice and prepare. I am reasonably certain that he had practiced shooting at a distance. Buffalo tend tò move away from humans shooting them, and some shots were probably at a longer distance than would be ideal.

Woodtroll · Post by **Woodtroll** » Sat Jun 17, 2023 5:31 pm

I agree completely. That's the same point I was trying to make, you just did a better job of it!

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Sat Jun 17, 2023 6:11 pm

Just last month finished reading "Life of Billy Dixon". Get the book if you haven't already, great read.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Jun 17, 2023 6:34 pm

https://texashillcountry.com/shot-centu ... n-history/

SNIP:
"Meanwhile, down in Adobe Walls, Billy Dixon took aim. He was using a Sharps Big Fifty, a single-shot with an octagonal, 34-inch barrel, firing a .50, 600-grain bullet driven by 125 grains of black powder. He dialed in his adjustable rear peep sight and got ready. He was aiming for the group of riders on the bluff, rather than any one particular target, and in later years he would call it a lucky shot, though he would also note, “I was not without confidence in my marksmanship.”

This does not detract from the skill of properly gauging the range.

piller · Post by **piller** » Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:45 pm

There was a lot of skill involved.

Oldncrusty · Post by **Oldncrusty** » Tue Jun 20, 2023 6:06 pm

Thanks for the on location reporting! Great to see it live (almost).

Scott Tschirhart · Post by **Scott Tschirhart** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 7:51 am

I rested my .50 Sharps across the pickup bed and considered my chances of making that shot……not likely that I would come close.

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 10:31 am

We were in the area a few years back and drove there and checked it out, it`s a long drive on a dirt road getting there but was happy we went there and seen it.
Not much activity there thought it would be more of a tourist attraction but wasn`t disappointed ya could feel what happened there.

black river smith · Post by **black river smith** » Sat Jun 24, 2023 1:16 pm

Another -- thanks for sharing your visit to an interesting historical site and event.

Rube Burrows · Post by **Rube Burrows** » Wed Jun 28, 2023 4:34 pm

Would love to visit the area sometime. Thanks for sharing the pics.

Scott Tschirhart · Post by **Scott Tschirhart** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 7:38 am

Follow up:

https://youtu.be/3Hp6weaY-S0

Post by **AmBraCol** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 8:42 am

Scott, have you ever been to the "Friends of Billy Dixon" range? Don't know if it's still a going thing or not. Their website doesn't come up for me here in Coffee Country.

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:27 am

Just for the record, according to Sharps scholar Frank Sellers the two standard loads for the .50 2 1/2-inch straight (introduced in July of 1872) were .50-100-425 grease-groove and .50-100-473 paper-patched.
I don't know where the gentleman quoted above came up with the "Big Fifty" load of 125 grains under a 600-grain bullet.

Scott Tschirhart · Post by **Scott Tschirhart** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 8:51 pm

I’ve seen that load written about elsewhere but I don’t know where it was written.

I suspect it’s from Dixon. He said that he borrowed the .50 because he didn’t think his .45-90 would carry that far.

He might not have been terribly familiar with a borrowed rifle. His autobiography says the rifle was a .50-90

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 9:20 pm

Scott Tschirhart wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 8:51 pm I’ve seen that load written about elsewhere but I don’t know where it was written.

I suspect it’s from Dixon. He said that he borrowed the .50 because he didn’t think his .45-90 would carry that far.

He might not have been terribly familiar with a borrowed rifle. His autobiography says the rifle was a .50-90

.
Scott, was the 50-90 an "express" load with something like a 300Gr bullet? Or did I just make that up?

Scott Tschirhart · Post by **Scott Tschirhart** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 10:31 pm

I don’t think so. The express loads were generally in the lighter Winchester rifles.

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Thu Jul 20, 2023 7:14 am

Mike Venturino has written about the results of archaeological surveys of the battle site. The fight started close in, with the Indians actually trying to batter down the doors and the defenders applied their handguns and Winchesters to the business at short range. The surveyors found .44 S&W American, .44 Colt and .44 Henry casings. Once the attackers were driven away from the buildings, the defenders then put their buffalo rifles to work; surveyors recovered .44-77, .44-90, .50-70 and .50-90 cases. No .40 cases were recovered, although the .40-70 SBN became widely popular after its introduction in 1869 and the .40-90 2 5/8 SBN had been introduced in May of 1873.
This is summarized from the chapter "The Buffalo Rifle in Combat" in Mike's excellent "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West."

Scott Tschirhart · Post by **Scott Tschirhart** » Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:09 am

I’d be very surprised if there were not a great number of .44 Henry and .50-70 cartridge cases found on the property.

piller · Post by **piller** » Fri Jul 21, 2023 1:27 pm

I am not real familiar with all the old cartridges. Seems as if they were pretty effective when one looks at them with consideration for the technology of the time. I am familiar with the .45-70, and it still works well within its limits.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Fri Jul 21, 2023 3:18 pm

piller wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 1:27 pm I am not real familiar with all the old cartridges. Seems as if they were pretty effective when one looks at them with consideration for the technology of the time. I am familiar with the .45-70, and it still works well within its limits.

Limits! Brian, the 45/70 has Limits? I thought it was just me. LOL

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sat Jul 22, 2023 9:47 pm

piller wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 1:27 pm I am not real familiar with all the old cartridges. Seems as if they were pretty effective when one looks at them with consideration for the technology of the time. I am familiar with the .45-70, and it still works well within its limits.

http://www.researchpress.co.uk/firearms ... -hook-1879

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Jul 23, 2023 5:58 pm

AmBraCol wrote: ↑Wed Jul 19, 2023 8:42 amScott, have you ever been to the "Friends of Billy Dixon" range? Don't know if it's still a going thing or not. Their website doesn't come up for me here in Coffee Country.

Friends of Billy Dixon the last event they have listed is 2011. As I recall the inaugural even was 2008. I have wanted to go back for several years, but haven't heard anything beyond that. Maybe Cowboy Tutt knows more.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Jul 23, 2023 8:03 pm

Scott Tschirhart wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:09 am I’d be very surprised if there were not a great number of .44 Henry and .50-70 cartridge cases found on the property.

I'm surprised they were not policed up to reload.

Scott Tschirhart · Post by **Scott Tschirhart** » Mon Jul 24, 2023 7:21 am

Blaine wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 8:03 pm
Scott Tschirhart wrote: ↑Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:09 am I’d be very surprised if there were not a great number of .44 Henry and .50-70 cartridge cases found on the property.
I'm surprised they were not policed up to reload.

The Henry was a rimfire cartridge. But you are certainly correct about the.50-70.

At Fort McKavett I’ve seen evidence that someone was casting bullets and reloading cartridges.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Mon Jul 24, 2023 10:27 pm

Found this in my saved images, I cant recall where i saved it from.

Adobe Walls site diagram.jpg

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Tue Jul 25, 2023 7:28 am

Thanks Malamute. I am not sure I have seen that before. It would sure be nice if we could locate the monument that now stands there on that map.

Scott Tschirhart · Post by **Scott Tschirhart** » Tue Jul 25, 2023 3:36 pm

The creek and the bluff are really the only things that you can tell were there at the time. There isn’t anything to show where the buildings or the stockade would have been but it’s clear that they were somewhere in the general vicinity.