Cocking the Single Action with two-hand hold

[JimT]

The other day some of us here were discussing cocking single actions when using a two-hand hold. I decided to video myself shooting my Single Six rapid fire, which I did. Then I took screen captures of what my thumb is doing when I did that.

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[gamekeeper]

That looks comfortable and efficient Jim, it's been a long time since I had a handgun but when I did I mostly shot one handed.

[GunnyMack]

I never had luck with that technique but a good buddy of mine was very proficient at it.
Guess if it is practiced it would come easier. Of course now I only have large bores to practice with. Now if I had the time to practice that would be something else!

[Griff]

It appears to be the same grip and method I employ. When practiced up I can out run my 1911 for the five shots I load in the six gun.

[JRD]

Jim,
You are right on! When shooting a revolver with two hands, grip the gun with your strong hand and cock with the offhand thumb. I’m a huge proponent of that technique and give that as advice frequently to shooters who aren’t very practiced.

You don’t need to break your grip with your dominant hand and you can get quite fast. More consistent too since you aren’t regripping each shot.

Jason

[JimT]

It appears to be the same grip and method I employ. When practiced up I can out run my 1911 for the five shots I load in the six gun.

Yessir you can. I also practiced speed-unloading and could get 4 empties in the air at the same time. I got 5 once in awhile. I saw Thell Reed and he could run 5 and 6 empties in the air at a time consistently. I never got that good. But I won some Combat Matches using my .357 single action against double action revolvers. I wasn't always faster but I missed less. Sometimes.

[gcs]

Same technique I use, even with a double action and during quals. Almost as fast as double action but more accurate.

[junkbug]

How hard is that on a revolver’s internal mechanism? I did that rather slowly with 2 different .45 colt SAA uberti clones around 20 years ago. Both ended up jumping time and hitting the cartridge with the firing pin on the far edge of the rim.

I got rid of both of them and stopped shooting like that.

[marlinman93]

I also use the offhand thumb to cock my SAA and have tried holding the trigger back as I cock and release the hammer for rapid fire shooting. I was actually a little surprised at how fast, and fairly accurate this method is for defensive shooting.

[44shooter]

5-6 empties in the air from a SAA? As in you eject your last before the first hits the ground?

[JimT]

How hard is that on a revolver’s internal mechanism? I did that rather slowly with 2 different .45 colt SAA uberti clones around 20 years ago. Both ended up jumping time and hitting the cartridge with the firing pin on the far edge of the rim.

I got rid of both of them and stopped shooting like that.

On a Ruger the worst thing is beating the cylinder bolt sideways. After 5 or 10 years of it they can get sloppy. I came up with a stop for that by adding a plastic block between the bolt and the frame. Later on the New Model Ruger Hamilton Bowen added a 3rd screw to stop that.

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[JimT]

5-6 empties in the air from a SAA? As in you eject your last before the first hits the ground?

Yessir. I never got consistent at more than 4 in the air at a time. Thell Reed was a Master with a sixgun. I could unload and reload pretty quickly. I had a drop tube that I had 5 rounds in and when the gun was empty I just pointed it downward, placed the drop tube in the loading port and spun the cylinder letting each round drop into the chambers. Not as fast as a double action but pretty durn fast.

[samsi]

The other day some of us here were discussing cocking single actions when using a two-hand hold. I decided to video myself shooting my Single Six rapid fire, which I did. Then I took screen captures of what my thumb is doing when I did that.

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Interesting, do you always shoot with your support hand index finger in front of the trigger guard? I can see where that contributes to a more open hand position and gets the thumb a bit higher to boot. I remember when the finger forward grip was a thing with the IPSC/Combat crowd (1980's?), but I never did it much myself.

[JimT]

The other day some of us here were discussing cocking single actions when using a two-hand hold. I decided to video myself shooting my Single Six rapid fire, which I did. Then I took screen captures of what my thumb is doing when I did that.

a.jpgb.jpgc.jpgd.jpg

Interesting, do you always shoot with your support hand index finger in front of the trigger guard? I can see where that contributes to a more open hand position and gets the thumb a bit higher to boot. I remember when the finger forward grip was a thing with the IPSC/Combat crowd (1980's?), but I never did it much myself.

On the smaller frame guns, yes. The Single Six and Colt SAA.

[JimT]

How hard is that on a revolver’s internal mechanism? I did that rather slowly with 2 different .45 colt SAA uberti clones around 20 years ago. Both ended up jumping time and hitting the cartridge with the firing pin on the far edge of the rim.

I got rid of both of them and stopped shooting like that.

On a Ruger the worst thing is beating the cylinder bolt sideways. After 5 or 10 years of it they can get sloppy. I came up with a stop for that by adding a plastic block between the bolt and the frame. Later on the New Model Ruger Hamilton Bowen added a 3rd screw to stop that.

boltstop.JPG

For the Ruger old models and Colt SAA and copies I made the shim from a plastic roller off of a cupboard door latch. The plastic is sort of "self lubricating" and won't bind the bolt. Make sure it is a nice "slip fit" when you put it in place. It cannot be so high that the leg of the trigger spring is raised up by it.

Make sure the shim is large enough that it does not move around. Take a little time and get it to fit correctly. For the Colt and copies, the trigger/bolt spring will hold it in place when it's the correct size. On the Rugers the spring also holds it.

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[samsi]

The other day some of us here were discussing cocking single actions when using a two-hand hold. I decided to video myself shooting my Single Six rapid fire, which I did. Then I took screen captures of what my thumb is doing when I did that.

a.jpgb.jpgc.jpgd.jpg

Interesting, do you always shoot with your support hand index finger in front of the trigger guard? I can see where that contributes to a more open hand position and gets the thumb a bit higher to boot. I remember when the finger forward grip was a thing with the IPSC/Combat crowd (1980's?), but I never did it much myself.

On the smaller frame guns, yes. The Single Six and Colt SAA.

Thanks. Just dug out my copy of McGivern and checked the section on slip shooting with the SAA. Yep, support hand index finger ahead of the trigger guard there also.

[Griff]

It appears to be the same grip and method I employ. When practiced up I can out run my 1911 for the five shots I load in the six gun.

Yessir you can. I also practiced speed-unloading and could get 4 empties in the air at the same time. I got 5 once in awhile. I saw Thell Reed and he could run 5 and 6 empties in the air at a time consistently. I never got that good. But I won some Combat Matches using my .357 single action against double action revolvers. I wasn't always faster but I missed less. Sometimes.

That was something I never did... Rarely did I ever see a stage with a complete reload... However, I did get to the point of being able to finish our PPC qualification course with my SAA. There were two strings of 12 rounds and one of 18 rounds... that 18 rounds from the 50 yard line almost did me in. I still think they fibbed when they said my last shot was before the beep signifying time... 2-½ minutes ain't a lot of time to fire 18 rounds from 50 yards... if you want any kind of good score.

How hard is that on a revolver’s internal mechanism? I did that rather slowly with 2 different .45 colt SAA uberti clones around 20 years ago. Both ended up jumping time and hitting the cartridge with the firing pin on the far edge of the rim.
I got rid of both of them and stopped shooting like that.

As Nate Kiowa Jones so famously sez, "you don't enter a Nascar race with grandma's station wagon." They need to be tuned and timed so that it functions flawlessly. Bob Munden initially tuned my original SAA back in 1986. I was 35 at the time, did wear it it out around my 50th birthday after about 14+ years of steady competition. So it and my 2nd one went off to Springfield, IL to Oglesby & Oglesby to get rebuilt and the second tuned to match. The 2nd one has about a ½ more pound of trigger pull, so it's used in the left hand, the other is quite light, around 1-½lbs.

[JimT]

However, I did get to the point of being able to finish our PPC qualification course with my SAA. There were two strings of 12 rounds and one of 18 rounds... that 18 rounds from the 50 yard line almost did me in. I still think they fibbed when they said my last shot was before the beep signifying time... 2-½ minutes ain't a lot of time to fire 18 rounds from 50 yards... if you want any kind of good score.

I shot the PPC course with my old model Ruger 357 hidden in my boot. On the last stage it was 12 rounds in 10 seconds if I remember correctly. I fired 6 dropped my sixgun in my belt holster and pulled the .357 from my boot and fired 6 more. They had the nerve to disqualify me! I protested claiming it was only a New York Reload but they would not OK it. I thought that very small of them.

[Sixgun]

That 2 handed style started when cowboy action got started in the eighties….before that it was relatively unknown. It was meant for shooting 2’ plates at 15 yards and that’s about all it’s good for as solid steady support cannot be had with the offhand open. It’s actually bad to get used to that style of shooting……unless your a cowboy action competitor shooting huge plates 15 yards away.

As for the springs, Wolfe sells reduced power as it’s my personal opinion…. which doesn’t mean much……that using shims are not consistent and may even result in misfires or timing issues.——-006

[Griff]

I learned to shoot a pistol in the Navy... a 1911 on the ASC course, one-handed with the body bladed to the target. When I joined the Sheriff's Dept, I was taught the Weaver Stance and began shooting every qualification course like that. I had a 2nd Gen Colt SAA I purchased in 1974 and only shot it on the range. Usually two handed over sandbags for groups at 25 yards or more. It was no hardship to transition the two-handed weaver stance to cowboy action shooting. I know I wasn't alone. In fact, one of the founders of SASS openly discouraged anyone from shooting one handed... not exactly conducive to fast shooting. Two- handed shooting pre-dates WWII... Every self-defense/combat course I've attended subscribes to either the Weaver Stance, an Isosceles or a modified Weaver Stance. And that goes back to the '70s. Slow or untimed target courses still usually require the single-handed grip. (I.e. ASC or Bullseye). At least to the best of my knowledge.

[JimT]

I have been shooting that way since back in the 1960's when I was a wet-nosed kid. I learned from an old exhibition shooter who shot for Winchester. He showed me how to set a pop can or beer can full of water on the ground with an empty on top of it. Shoot the bottom can and the water blows the top can into air a little ways. If you're fast on the hammer you fire the second shot before the top can comes down and knock it flying. I've used that hold when killing deer, pigs, Javelina, and numerous other critters.

I used that hold when busting boards in the air

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Of course I used other holds also ..

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Shooting rocks at 200 yards

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This was me back in the 60's ...

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[Sixgun]

There’s two kinds of two handed shooting ….one, where the strong hand grips the gun and the supporting hand cups the strong hand.

Then there’s that stupid two handed shooting for short work where the strong hand grips the gun and the supporting hand is somewhat open and that hand does the hammer cocking.

But you guys know that.

Me and Griff were shooting one day and we were boff banging the 6” plate at 100 meters and the 10” plate at 200 meters with a first gen Colt SAA. in 38-40…..not difficult with probably a 30% success ratio but one thing for sure, it wasn’t done with that stupid one hand holding and the other hand thumbing.

What do I have to do….come down to Texas to teach you old guys how to shoot? I would but I only put on 247 miles on the Jeep since last July and a hundred of it was today! So take that you non shooters…BOFF of you!

And the gun we were using was the no finish Colt in the back….

[Sixgun]

Rocks or house sized boulders?…and besides Jim…..you cheated by having a teacher that was second to none!

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[Griff]

Actually, Sixgun... I was... I don't use the off-hand to cup the strong hand, even when going for a distance shot, I just don't find that to be all that stable. My "weak" hand is tied into the strong hand with the forefinger wrapped around the front of the trigger guard and the other three fingers pulling the strong hang into my locked elbow. Still leaves the weak thumb available to cock the revolver and not interfere with the falling hammer.

[JimT]

Rocks or house sized boulders?…and besides Jim…..you cheated by having a teacher that was second to none!96C9D842-8BA7-4AE2-B123-9BFE4BC2DFA8.jpeg

Both!

[JimT]

There’s two kinds of two handed shooting ….one, where the strong hand grips the gun and the supporting hand cups the strong hand.

Then there’s that stupid two handed shooting for short work where the strong hand grips the gun and the supporting hand is somewhat open and that hand does the hammer cocking.

At my age I don't hold anything loosely.

Never did hold a sixgun loosely ... especially the hard recoilers like the .475 Linebaugh. Hold that loosely and things happen that you really don't want to happen.

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[Grizz]

There’s two kinds of two handed shooting ….one, where the strong hand grips the gun and the supporting hand cups the strong hand.

Then there’s that stupid two handed shooting for short work where the strong hand grips the gun and the supporting hand is somewhat open and that hand does the hammer cocking.

At my age I don't hold anything loosely.

Never did hold a sixgun loosely ... especially the hard recoilers like the .475 Linebaugh. Hold that loosely and things happen that you really don't want to happen.
475Linebaugh.JPG

the third kind is easy to resolve. i was deer hunting with a friend who had a something-jdj that we were trying out before we hit the woods by plinking rocks across the inlet. his two hand hold was to put his open left hand under the butt of the gun. he could scarcely hit the boulder! with very little coaching he could keep all the bullets on the same rock, and up the hill we went... there are still pictures on the inet showing the palm support theory!!

[piller]

No coaching, and not much time on a single action. I cannot reach the hammer on my Ruger with my shooting hand unless I change my grip to one that I cannot use to shoot with. I started using my support hand thumb to cock the hammer because that was what was comfortable.

[Sixgun]

Ok……everyone has their own technique……I did the two handed off thumb shooting for years in C.A…….I got real good at it, and no brag, got the trophy’s to proves it…..I shot “duelist” also which was required by all at this one club where emphasis was put on “control & accuracy”.

No shot was closer than 25 yards and most rifle shots were from 40-100 yards away. It required you to use your sights and not just a blur of the muzzle….my favorite cowboy match…..once a year we would have a cowboy “convergence” with the roast pig. Stages were very elaborate and sometimes you could not “move on” unless a small target was eliminated….oh well, I could not do it anymore at least at the speed I used to….we had 10 once a year convergences of which I won 2 with 7 during the year matches. You could use a 38 Spl. with 2.8 grains of bullseye but you were not going to knock anything down….It was a real “match”.

Jim T is right….above everything else is the grip hold and the strength used to hold it…..In my competitive days I would use one of those spring things to strengthen the hands………and then there’s guys like Mark Shade who has nerves of steel, and hands of steel about the size of a catchers mitt..I’ve watched this guy many many times shoot a 460 Smith in handgun silhouette one right after the other faster than I could with the Maximum and hit more…..he was and is a special natural shooter. He was telling me that he is on lifetime heavy dosages of blood thinner as he don’t bleed when cut…

Like most old people, we tend to live in the past…..eyesight goes, reaction time goes, nerves go, speed and agility along with mental coordination goes and that’s why old guys don’t set no records….or should be President…..

[Grizz]

I can relate to that Six, i am losing my grip, which at one time kept me from getting me tossed into the ocean over a long career.... now my right hand has enough bone damage to make the 12Ga hurt... ain't for sissies...

[JimT]

Yep Sixgun. i can still shoot fairly well, but I cannot shoot the heavy recoiling stuff anymore. Last year I took my .45 to the range with my 300 gr. loads ... about 1150 fps. I took 20 rounds and brought at least 15 home.

It is what it is. I wouldn't even try to shoot the big revolvers anymore. At 77 I am in better shape than I was 5 or 6 years ago and I can still shoot my favorites .... 38 Special .. 357 ... 41 Magnum ... 44 Special ... 45 Colt ... 480 Achilles ...

[piller]

Because of a Covid vaccine caused series of strokes last year, my right hand lost about 90% of its grip strength. It has come back most of the way. Recently I took my .357 GP 100 out. It was almost as good as before. Left handed, my .480 Ruger was as good, actually a bit better than my Right hand with the .357, so I have not regained all my grip.