Just purchased a large frame Win1894 in 450Marlin

[577nitro]

I just scored this, I've never seen a 94 in a large frame big bore. It's a Browning/Miroku in 450 Marlin, ported barrel, full length mag, tapped for scope, etc. I'm pretty sure I'm going to
convert it into either a 450AK or 50AK. Nothing wrong with 450 Mar other than it's an orphaned cartridge, we'll see what happens.

577Nitro-

[CowboyTutt]

That's really neat! Is that the original chambering??? Didn't think the '94 action is that strong. -Tutt

[BenT]

Nice snag! The 450 marlin will have plenty of power in that light gun. Enjoy it as is. Get a 100 pieces of brass and it will last you many years. With the porting don't shoot it without ear muffs.

[Bearskinner]

In 450 Alaskan, you should be able to keep the barrel stock, just ream the chamber to the new caliber. The tube should be ok to house the larger diameter case. Might have to open up the loading gate?

[577nitro]

That's really neat! Is that the original chambering??? Didn't think the '94 action is that strong. -Tutt

Yup it's the original chambering, it was made in 2000 offered from Browning, it's a large frame, not the same as the original 30-30win version. The 450M is a 45KPSI round, so I think it's
plenty strong. The 450AK and 50Ak are lower pressure for the same velocities, that's why I thinking about converting, but, not sure, have to test it out first. I just thought it is cool as sh** in
94. I have a 86 I'm converting to 45-90 so I can shoot both 45-70 and -90.

577Nitro-

[577nitro]

In 450 Alaskan, you should be able to keep the barrel stock, just ream the chamber to the new caliber. The tube should be ok to house the larger diameter case. Might have to open up the loading gate?

Yeah, I converted a M1895G to 450AK, really love it too, great round, lots of power.

[CowboyTutt]

I understand the interest in wanting to modify it, but it might be more valuable left alone? Just an action and trigger job maybe? Great find! -Tutt

[Rimfire McNutjob]

It will be interesting to see if that conversion is possible. The 450 AK's rim is 80+ thousandths larger in diameter.

[Bridger]

That's really neat! Is that the original chambering??? Didn't think the '94 action is that strong. -Tutt

Yup it's the original chambering, it was made in 2000 offered from Browning, it's a large frame, not the same as the original 30-30win version. The 450M is a 45KPSI round, so I think it's
plenty strong. The 450AK and 50Ak are lower pressure for the same velocities, that's why I thinking about converting, but, not sure, have to test it out first. I just thought it is cool as sh** in
94. I have a 86 I'm converting to 45-90 so I can shoot both 45-70 and -90.

577Nitro-

First off, I’m definitely a fan of your new rifle! I vote leave it as is.
But, I’m thinking that rifle is considerably newer than 2000. First off, in 2000 that tang safety wasn’t in existence on 94s, it was that God awful crossbolt. Second, 94s weren’t being made in Miroku in 2000, even the Big Bores as far as I know. Also, I don’t think that short rifle configuration was made in 450 until much more recently than 2000.

[577nitro]

That's really neat! Is that the original chambering??? Didn't think the '94 action is that strong. -Tutt

Yup it's the original chambering, it was made in 2000 offered from Browning, it's a large frame, not the same as the original 30-30win version. The 450M is a 45KPSI round, so I think it's
plenty strong. The 450AK and 50Ak are lower pressure for the same velocities, that's why I thinking about converting, but, not sure, have to test it out first. I just thought it is cool as sh** in
94. I have a 86 I'm converting to 45-90 so I can shoot both 45-70 and -90.

577Nitro-

First off, I’m definitely a fan of your new rifle! I vote leave it as is.
But, I’m thinking that rifle is considerably newer than 2000. First off, in 2000 that tang safety wasn’t in existence on 94s, it was that God awful crossbolt. Second, 94s weren’t being made in Miroku in 2000, even the Big Bores as far as I know. Also, I don’t think that short rifle configuration was made in 450 until much more recently than 2000.

I’m going off what the owner said, I know nothing much about this model, it’s new to me. If it doesn’t work out for a conversion, that’s OK too, I don’t have anything against the 450M, other than lack of availability. I would need to scrounge dies and brass somewhere.

[2ndovc]

You can find pretty much anything if you're patient and spend a little time looking for it.

I've killed several large boar with my .450 Marlin, not one of them took more than a single step. Is the .450 AK really that much more useful/ powerful?

Nothing against custom firearms, I have many. I've always started with an abandoned receiver or something that's already been altered, instead of an original or uncommon gun.
Just an opinion. It's your gun, do what you want.

jb

[vancelw]

If it is Browning/Miroku made, the serial number will tell you what year it was made.

[hfcable]

the 450 AK i have seen [ and owned] were all done on the model 86 / model 71 sized actions and the 450 AK that i am familiar with uses the 348 winchester brass as a starting point. wouldnt think this could work on any model 94 ?

but ,,,it is early and i am only on m first cup of coffee...

[crs]

Nice rifle and a +1 on your plan to upgrade one of your rifles to 45-90; I just completed that on my Beretta 45-70 double rifle and am eager to shoot it over a chronograph.
I have had a Miroku made 1886 45-90 for years and it is a highly functional rifle, shooting 45-70 also. It hold about96% the powder as a .458 win mag and shoots NF 450 grain FPS very well at 2150 fps.

Here is some fun reading on the 450 Marlin cartridge -- https://www.chuckhawks.com/450Marlin.htm

Enjoy the new rifle.

[Griff]

AFAIK, Browning never produced any mdl 94 copy until after the Winchester factory closed in 2006. The Winchester 94AE was produced under license by Miroku in 450 Marlin beginning in 2012. It was not a "large frame" mdl 94, but the standard (and as far as I know) the only sized 94 ever made. Winchester had previously offered the mdl 94 in 480 Ruger in 2003, and beginning in 2004 in 450 Marlin. It'd be interesting to see the markings on barrel & frame... I wonder what the actual measurements are? Since the Olin Corporation sold the rights to manufacture arms under the Winchester name to FN, which already owned Browning... I can see where some confusion comes in.

[JFE]

Nice pick up.

I don’t know that the length, width and depth of the action is any different to a regular 94 action. It would be interesting to compare that action with a regular 94.

[Old Savage]

What is a large frame Win 1894?

[castcat]

Don't think it's been said but believe it is a 94 AE big bore

[Griff]

Don't think it's been said but believe it is a 94 AE big bore

No, it doesn't have the thicker web over the locking lug area the Big Bores have. Just like the other Winchester 94s offered in 450 Marlin, it appears to be a standard AE frame. (Cause other'n the Big Bore & AE, the only frame ever made is the standard 1894 or mdl 94 frame. (Were the Big Bore ever offered in an AE {angle eject})?

[577nitro]

After some thinking and tinkering….I think I’m gonna scrounge up the dies and brass and just keep it a 450M for the time being.

I’ve found some ammo, grabbed 100 rounds should be good for a while. I really won’t know anything until it arrives next week and I can
Start measuring things. I really don’t think it’s the same frame as my original 94 30-30, it looks bigger in the photos.

As far as the 450Ak….the reason I love it, is that it allows for higher velocities with the same pressure…or lower pressure at the targeted velocity, its a win win either way. Brass is easy to find/make and the bullet selection is superior to the 50Ak. However I do love the 50AK/50-110 in a LG. I have two double rifles I built for myself that are in 50-90 Sharps and one in 50-140 Sharps, they are full nitro loads, not BP. What I was thinking is maybe build a set of barrels for one in 50-110Win, so I could have a matching set, 1886 in 50-110, and the double regulated to a matching load. If I could ever find the time to actually work on my own stuff! The cobblers kids go barefoot!

577Nitro-

[vancelw]

Don't think it's been said but believe it is a 94 AE big bore

No, it doesn't have the thicker web over the locking lug area the Big Bores have. Just like the other Winchester 94s offered in 450 Marlin, it appears to be a standard AE frame. (Cause other'n the Big Bore & AE, the only frame ever made is the standard 1894 or mdl 94 frame. (Were the Big Bore ever offered in an AE {angle eject})?

According to Chuck they were. I believe I had seen AE .375 BB rifles, because when I was looking for a 375 Winchester I made sure not to get an AE or one with the High comb.

I have a box of .450 Marlin just waiting for a rifle to magically appear in front of me.

[44shooter]

If I remember right Big Bores preceded Angle Eject briefly then were made concurrently with Angle eject features for a long time but in low numbers. I do not believe there are different frame sizes of 1894s. I know the Big Bores had the beefy rear receivers but have read they aren’t really necessary for strength. Big Bores were made in 307, 356 and 375 most of the run. Then I recall seeing Winchesters in 444 and 450 Marlin before New Haven shut down. Wish I had bought that 444 Timber Carbine I saw for a little over three hundred new in the box.

[CowboyTutt]

Nitro, I think you made a wise choice for now. I am no expert on the AK cartridges and just started reading up on them tonight, but it seems like the 450 AK is only marginally better ballistically speaking in a levergun and probably not worth the cost. Also, its a valuable rifle and I can tell you, having a custom project in the works for 1.5 years now, everything is moving super slow right now. I had to wait over 6 months for my barrel and reamer for my wildcat conversion. I will have over 2 years total on this project by time its done. I think keeping it the way it is like you have chosen is the best way to go. Really nice looking gun, look forward to the range report!!!! -Tutt

[577nitro]

I think this is the ad for it. Wish mine was a take down, that would really cool, but I think I’ll be happy as is. Starting to think it might be fairly rare.
Still doing research, anybody have dies? Looks like a another custom set from Hornady…and a six month wait! Maybe I might be able to use 45-70 dies in a pinch.

PS: I don't think it is a "big bore" or large frame, it appears as standard size mdl94 frame. How they got it to feed 450M I don't know. But it now opens up many possibilities for future projects!

7A454EB8-575F-4433-950A-A7506A96F2F1.jpeg

[Old Savage]

Big Bore is one of their actual terms. There is no large frame.

[Old Savage]

Big Bore is one of their actual terms. There is no large frame.

[577nitro]

Big Bore is one of their actual terms. There is no large frame.

Roger that my mistake. I’m quite confused now though. I went to the Winchester web site and they list a bunch of supposedly current
Model lever guns for sale and current manufacturing. They do list the Mdl94 in many delicious versions, however trying to find one is impossible,
And what also confuses me is why they would build and chamber in a pretty much defunct round like the 450M? Hornady told me they are not producing ammo for it anymore. Why would you do that? It’s basically a hammer at that point. I’m not assuming reloading is part of equation because not everybody does or can reload.

They would be better off chambering in the 458 American, at least that way you can make brass from many donor cartridges and use the 458mag dies.

I have been looking at ammo on the gun auction sites and the prices are asinine, 5.50 to 7.00 a round, that’s a gouge. I paid less for 577NE and 450/400 3.25” than that. I paid $1.50 per case for 450AK, and I could buy as a many as I wanted from Quality Cartridge.

Again nothing against the 450M, its a great idea, and I think Ruger should bring it back, but somebody needs to make it available commercially at a reasonable price. Honestly you could categorize the 405Win in the same position, being guns chambered in it with no commercially available ammo.

577Nitro.

[Old Savage]

Looked at the site, Indeed they are making rifles in a number of calibers not commonly available and at hefty prices. But on why things are produced or why people want them, who knows? But, still a semi free country you like Tutt can go for anything you want. But, be prepared of course to jump through the hoops and Pay!

[2ndovc]

I don't believe .450 Marlin dies are custom, at least they weren't. I might have a spare set. I will take a look when I get a chance.


jb

[CowboyTutt]

Might be worth a look. -Tutt

https://opticsandammo.com/product/horna ... fg-546553/

[577nitro]

I don't believe .450 Marlin dies are custom, at least they weren't. I might have a spare set. I will take a look when I get a chance.


jb

I was told if the dies are not currently in production then you have to order them through the
Custom dies shop as they are a one off run. What I do is order two sets, since they are tooling its easier and cheaper for the second one, and can sell the spare with the gun and keep a set for myself.

PS: I just bought a new set of Hornady dies off fleabay. I’m all set now, 100 piece of ammo/brass, and dies for loading.

You all were right, little bit of scrounging and searching and I found all I needed. Can’t wait to get it in and throw some lead down range!

I would like to get a Model 95 450M in that Timber version high grade, that thing is a beauty!

[Drawdown]

Didn't read all the posts but all I can say is wow, you got a jewel, and get equipped to shoot it as is! No doubt another of the great cartridges that just never developed a following, but that don't mean squat if you can get furnished to use it. That's what I would do and enjoy every minute of it. Congratulations!

[577nitro]

Didn't read all the posts but all I can say is wow, you got a jewel, and get equipped to shoot it as is! No doubt another of the great cartridges that just never developed a following, but that don't mean squat if you can get furnished to use it. That's what I would do and enjoy every minute of it. Congratulations!

Roger that! I have everything to shoot'er now, just waiting on everything to arrive.

[577nitro]

So I finally got the gun in my hands, and it's everything I hoped for. Incredibly light and fast pointing, very smooth action. I have two other model 94's, a mid 50' and a mid 70's both Win originals (30-30) and there is a defiantly a difference in fit and finish between them. The Jap version is much better, it's pretty obvious. Being so light, the factory loads recoil a bit, but not bad. I'll get photos up next time I go out this weekend, weathers been iffy last few weeks...spring in CO.

577Nitro.