Follow-up on "Stainless" -- SIG's SS Durability Question

[Old No7]

I'd be interested in what your experience with "stainless" finishes has been...

This is a follow-up to the "Who Likes Stainless" post that was started recently.

To start with, I think we all know that stainless steel is really stain LESS -- not stain PROOF or RUST PROOF.

As any boater is well aware, to be best protected, stainless steel actually needs to be exposed to the air, or to be protected from the elements, especially water intrusion. That is why you will often see rust stains weeping from the eye bolts on the stern of a boat; it is not the outside "eye" that is rusting, but the inside stainless shaft of the bolt that has been exposed to water weeping into it, or seeping onto it from within the core of the transom itself. (The "fix" by the way, is to remove the bolt, any backing plates [which better be there for such an important fastener!] and any hardware and liberally coat all the internal stainless parts with a good waterproof marine grease such as "OMC Triple Guard Grease" . That will stop the rust weeping and protect the stainless finish which is not exposed to air.)

OK -- back to guns....................

My 25+ year old stainless Ruger Old Army -- is spotless!

My 15+ year old stainless Kahr K9 -- is spotless!

My 10+ year old stainless S&W Model 631 32 Mag -- is spotless!

My 5+ year old stainless Browning Buckmark Contour -- is spotless!

But my 2+ year old SIG P226 Stainless Elite -- has numerous small spots or patches of oxidation showing up.......

All my guns get wiped down and handled pretty much the same, as you might guess, with the Old Army even being subjected to corrosive blackpowder or Pyrodex -- yet the finish of the SIG stainless is no where as durable as the others listed.

This is not a bash against SIG -- as I bought the 226 Elite SS when I worked there -- but the difference on how this one is "aging" as compared to the others is alarming................

So, what's your experience with stainLESS guns and/or the SIG stainMORE (!?!?) finish ? ? ?

Old No7

[2ndovc]

I bought a used PPK/s in stainless that had some pretty decent pitting on the slide. It had come from an estate and the dealer had no idea how it had happened. By the way that was one of the nastiest, most unpleasant shooting pistols I've ever had!

My dad took the stainless Mini 14 my mom and I bought him in the '80s when he went on his sailing tour of the Caribbean. He ended up sending it to me about a year after he'd left Lake Erie. A couple islands along the way had made it difficult for him checking into Customs. On one Island, don't remember which one, the Police Chief offered him $1500 for it. He wouldn't sell it because we had bought it for him so many years ago. He ended up sending it home and I sent him back an H&R single shot 12 gage w/ an 18 1/4" barrel. Told him to throw it over the side if he thought there may be trouble. Only paid $80 for it. I have it now along with a 10" Becker bowie knife I'd given him to repel boarders with. The H&R faired just as well as the Stainless Mini. A few spots of rust here and there.. Pretty good testament to each of them. The hot and humid Gulf was really hard on everything else on his Tartan 37' . He had to replace all the Stainless shrouds and fittings after two years down there.


jb

[jeepnik]

The only stainless firearm that ever showed any "rust" is my old AMT .380 Backup. But, I used to carry it when riding my bike so it was exposed to considerable sweat. But, you have to understand that just touching a blued firearm and not wiping it down will cause it to rust.

The remainder from companies like S&W, CA, Colt, Ruger, Randall, Taurus, Marlin and others have showed no finish degradation. None are safe queens.

[JB]

Not all stainless steel is the same. The amount of molybdenum can vary. You'll notice magnets stick some some stainless alloys but not others. All will rust, but some stainless just rusts easier than others.

[HawkCreek]

I bought a Sig P220ST back around 2003 and it quickly became my carry piece. I carried it IWB for years in various holsters. Shot the snot out of it during that time too. Doesn't have a blemish anywhere on it.

[David]

I have a very early P229 (early 90's?) the stainless slide it's still perfect.
I however wax my firearms with Renaissance, which is a carry over from my antiques however use Rem oil vs whale oil (stinky)

[vancelw]

The only Sig I've ever owned (and ever will own) was a piece of junk. Useless for anything other than a boat anchor. Why anyone would need a stainless boat anchor is beyond me.

I have several stainless guns:
Marlin, Ruger, Kimber, TC, S&W, others I can't remember right now..

I use them hard and am lax in cleaning. Downright lazy.
The only one I've noticed any blemishes on is The TC Encore.
Oh, the Sig...it was a P220ST. Never worked well enough to see how the finish held up.

[jeepnik]

Not all stainless steel is the same. The amount of molybdenum can vary. You'll notice magnets stick some some stainless alloys but not others. All with rust, but some stainless just rusts easier than others.

You are quite correct about the magnet trick. I use it frequently on what is supposedly 316 stainless. Almost always the 316 from China (even a supposedly ISO facility) is magnetic. After one bad experience I now mandate that the 316 used on any of my projects is either US or European made. I quite often have contractors try to slip chinese stuff in. Sad but true, way too many folks have no morals or ethics anymore.

[piller]

13% Chromium is the minimum for it to be stainless. D2 steel is only 12%, and it is not stainless. Molybdenum, Vanadium, and Silicon are there to reduce the size of the carbides and make it a more homogenous mix. The A.G. Russell website has a tutorial on this.

[Old Savage]

Read about the Dozier D2 heat treat and its performance as very almost stainless.

[milton]

"Stainless" will rust but if seems to be a continuing process and you have oiled it frequently the gun may not have been run through the passivation treatment properly.

[cas]

Never had any issues with the 220ST I had either.

Have rusted Colt and Baer stainless.

[Old Ironsights]

I work day in and day out with "surgical stainless" $$$$ Surgical Instruments... and they will rust overnight if left wet (or dry) without cleaning.

All of my carry guns are Stainless or Cerekoted, but even then it's not proof against rust.

Because I can rust Tennifer. ...

[Old Savage]

We seem to have very different opinions on the 220ST.

[jeepnik]

I work day in and day out with "surgical stainless" $$$$ Surgical Instruments... and they will rust overnight if left wet (or dry) without cleaning.

All of my carry guns are Stainless or Cerekoted, but even then it's not proof against rust.

Because I can rust Tennifer. ...

Sure do. One of the hospitals I take care of was having problems with "yellow" stains on the pads under surgical instruments. Docs didn't like it one darned but that the surgical team would unwrap a set of instruments and things weren't pristine.

I ran all sorts of water tests, everything was in spec. I went through all of the equipment used to sterilize and package the instruments. Then by chance the woman running the sterilization area mentioned she had only been there a few months. Folks seem to recall that the problem wasn't that old. I talked to the crew and found that the new leader wanted to speed up the process so she shortened the drying time. Bingo.

They now have someone new running the sterilization room and problems have disappeared. Funny how following long running procedures (ones developed from years of trial and error) can prevent the need to reinvent the wheel.

[jeepnik]

I work day in and day out with "surgical stainless" $$$$ Surgical Instruments... and they will rust overnight if left wet (or dry) without cleaning.

All of my carry guns are Stainless or Cerekoted, but even then it's not proof against rust.

Because I can rust Tennifer. ...

Sure do. One of the hospitals I take care of was having problems with "yellow" stains on the pads under surgical instruments. Docs didn't like it one darned bit that the surgical team would unwrap a set of instruments and things weren't pristine.

I ran all sorts of water tests, everything was in spec. I went through all of the equipment used to sterilize and package the instruments. Then by chance the woman running the sterilization area mentioned she had only been there a few months. Folks seem to recall that the problem wasn't that old. I talked to the crew and found that the new leader wanted to speed up the process so she shortened the drying time. Bingo.

They now have someone new running the sterilization room and problems have disappeared. Funny how following long running procedures (ones developed from years of trial and error) can prevent the need to reinvent the wheel.

[Old Ironsights]

I work day in and day out with "surgical stainless" $$$$ Surgical Instruments... and they will rust overnight if left wet (or dry) without cleaning.

All of my carry guns are Stainless or Cerekoted, but even then it's not proof against rust.

Because I can rust Tennifer. ...

Sure do. One of the hospitals I take care of was having problems with "yellow" stains on the pads under surgical instruments. Docs didn't like it one darned but that the surgical team would unwrap a set of instruments and things weren't pristine.

I ran all sorts of water tests, everything was in spec. I went through all of the equipment used to sterilize and package the instruments. Then by chance the woman running the sterilization area mentioned she had only been there a few months. Folks seem to recall that the problem wasn't that old. I talked to the crew and found that the new leader wanted to speed up the process so she shortened the drying time. Bingo.

They now have someone new running the sterilization room and problems have disappeared. Funny how following long running procedures (ones developed from years of trial and error) can prevent the need to reinvent the wheel.

Irritating thing is that water staining has nothing at all to do with instrument sterility.

But what do I know, I'm only a CRCST/CER tech and not a surgeon... :Roll:

[Paladin]

I work day in and day out with "surgical stainless" $$$$ Surgical Instruments... and they will rust overnight if left wet (or dry) without cleaning.

All of my carry guns are Stainless or Cerekoted, but even then it's not proof against rust.

Because I can rust Tennifer. ...

Same problem here if I touch it, it corrodes. My first .38 super commander on a three-day trip overnight pitted. (OK the raft (RB15) tipped an I went swimming with it). I have Armaloyed, Metalifed, Ceracoated, or rattle canned almost everything from that point on. I swim with an S&W Model 60 3in, lots of Rattlesnakes around the swimming hole, it holds up well with the coil springs in it. MY sigs and Glocks have held up well as long as I rinse them off in fresh water after a dip in salt water. Everything has some corrosive that it will react to just try to keep your toys away from what they don't like.

[Beaker]

Acidic atmospheres such as found in laboratory environments among others can also play havoc with stainless steel of all types and grades. Hydrochloric acid fumes (muriatic acid) is notoriously hard on stainless even in very low concentrations especially in high humidity. It is very common to see corroded chrome, nickel and stainless steel in restrooms where HCl toilet bowl cleaners are used frequently. Also it has been shown that using chlorine bleach in the cloths washer in utility rooms near furnaces with ss heat exchangers will greatly reduce the life of the furnace heat exchanger. Both acid and chloride are "hell" on stainless steel and even worse on higher ferreous containing mild steels. This is why it is very important to thoroughly wipe down your firearms after handling especially if your hands are or were sweaty while handling them. The chloride from body salts will cause extensive pitting to all "steels" (and other active metals such as brass,aluminium, zinc, etc.) over time if not removed promptly.