Would Like S&W to make 9mm Carbine
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- Advanced Levergunner
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Would Like S&W to make 9mm Carbine
Just sent an e-mail to Jessica Athas, S&W Training Division, requesting that they consider marketing a lightweight, affordable S&W 9mm carbine that shares magazines with my S&W Shield (M&P magazines).
(Certain portions with personal information excised)
Last year I fired and loved the M&P Compact and purchased the little Shield. With the huge advancements in 9mm ammunition during the last decade, I am now confident that the proper 9mm Luger cartridge is the ultimate defense caliber due to its portability, accuracy potential, ease of firing and effectiveness.
In fact, your company's Shield has supplanted daily carry and/or off-duty pistol for 40 years, the great Colt 1911 Mk IV Series 70 .45 ACP.
I have spent a considerable amount of time researching the options of home and personal defense carbines - for various scenarios, including those situations where multiple assailants are attacking honest folks who don't visit the range every month as is necessary to maintain handgun proficiency. A carbine, of course, is much easier to aim for the average citizen, or one who is intimidated by the modest amount of recoil from an effective handgun caliber.
I have considered a .45 ACP caliber carbine conversion - an upper - that could use one of my existing 1911 type pistols. But I don't like tying up a perfectly good handgun, and the conversion kit is about the same price as one or two regular pistol caliber carbines.
Your existing rifle caliber carbines are nice, but their cartridges penetrate way too much for urban application. Practice ammo is expensive. The guns are a bit pricey for the working stiff who just wants something to protect his family - thus the robust sales of the Hi-Point carbines.
And here in California, it is still touch and go as to whether your semi-automatic rifles and carbines will be deemed totally illegal, because of their profile, magazine availability, and so on.
HERE IS MY SUGGESTION:
A sleek little lightweight blow-back carbine that follows the pattern of the rather ugly but dependable Hi-Point. I seriously considered buying one, but its takedown is a nightmare and you have to pay a premium price for its special magazines. So, how about this:
1) 9mm Carbine, lightweight
2) Uses M&P magazines (!)
3) California limit would allow 10 round magazines, still quickly changeable in a firefight.
4) Mags feed into gun grip for sleek, clean and attractive profile
5) With simple blow-back design, easy to disassemble and clean
6) Affordable.
I have in mind the profile and characteristics of the Hi-Point but slimmed down, again with standard M&P mag in a pistol grip. My personal preference would be just good iron sights, but you could add a tactical rail for all those lights, lasers, and so on for the would-be "operators" or for night-time use.
Wouldn't you want to purchase one? Especially from Smith & Wesson!
Thank you for reading this rather long e-mail.
(JohndeFresno and address group)
Side note, not in the e-mail to S&W - I looked at Just Right carbines that now use M&P mags. They have a poor record for accuracy, and I think that there were reliability problems. I stopped looking when I discovered their dismal accuracy.
(Certain portions with personal information excised)
Last year I fired and loved the M&P Compact and purchased the little Shield. With the huge advancements in 9mm ammunition during the last decade, I am now confident that the proper 9mm Luger cartridge is the ultimate defense caliber due to its portability, accuracy potential, ease of firing and effectiveness.
In fact, your company's Shield has supplanted daily carry and/or off-duty pistol for 40 years, the great Colt 1911 Mk IV Series 70 .45 ACP.
I have spent a considerable amount of time researching the options of home and personal defense carbines - for various scenarios, including those situations where multiple assailants are attacking honest folks who don't visit the range every month as is necessary to maintain handgun proficiency. A carbine, of course, is much easier to aim for the average citizen, or one who is intimidated by the modest amount of recoil from an effective handgun caliber.
I have considered a .45 ACP caliber carbine conversion - an upper - that could use one of my existing 1911 type pistols. But I don't like tying up a perfectly good handgun, and the conversion kit is about the same price as one or two regular pistol caliber carbines.
Your existing rifle caliber carbines are nice, but their cartridges penetrate way too much for urban application. Practice ammo is expensive. The guns are a bit pricey for the working stiff who just wants something to protect his family - thus the robust sales of the Hi-Point carbines.
And here in California, it is still touch and go as to whether your semi-automatic rifles and carbines will be deemed totally illegal, because of their profile, magazine availability, and so on.
HERE IS MY SUGGESTION:
A sleek little lightweight blow-back carbine that follows the pattern of the rather ugly but dependable Hi-Point. I seriously considered buying one, but its takedown is a nightmare and you have to pay a premium price for its special magazines. So, how about this:
1) 9mm Carbine, lightweight
2) Uses M&P magazines (!)
3) California limit would allow 10 round magazines, still quickly changeable in a firefight.
4) Mags feed into gun grip for sleek, clean and attractive profile
5) With simple blow-back design, easy to disassemble and clean
6) Affordable.
I have in mind the profile and characteristics of the Hi-Point but slimmed down, again with standard M&P mag in a pistol grip. My personal preference would be just good iron sights, but you could add a tactical rail for all those lights, lasers, and so on for the would-be "operators" or for night-time use.
Wouldn't you want to purchase one? Especially from Smith & Wesson!
Thank you for reading this rather long e-mail.
(JohndeFresno and address group)
Side note, not in the e-mail to S&W - I looked at Just Right carbines that now use M&P mags. They have a poor record for accuracy, and I think that there were reliability problems. I stopped looking when I discovered their dismal accuracy.
Re: Would Like S&W to make 9mm Carbine
How are these? Seems handy and there are several mag choices.
https://www.keltecweapons.com/rifles/sub-2000
https://www.keltecweapons.com/rifles/sub-2000
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
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Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
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- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 4559
- Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:52 pm
Re: Would Like S&W to make 9mm Carbine
Yes - GunTests.com - a subscription that reviews guns with no favors or advertising, just like Consumer Reports - has given an "A" rating to this and the Thureon.BlaineG wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:42 pm How are these? Seems handy and there are several mag choices.
https://www.keltecweapons.com/rifles/sub-2000
Problems:
1) External high capacity magazines
2) Folding stock, pistol grip, external magazine combination.
Kel-Tec carbines can be modified for California, but the list of modifications and loss of functionality is ridiculous; just like so many laws found in this state.
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- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: Would Like S&W to make 9mm Carbine
Blaine, my grandson has a Keltec carbine and I really like it. His is the 9mm for Beretta mags. It is very accurate and we have never had a failure with any ammo used in it.
JerryB II Corinthians 3:17, Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
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- GunnyMack
- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: Would Like S&W to make 9mm Carbine
Palmetto State Armory have 2 different 9 carbine, one uses Glock mags the other uses Colt( I think) BUT they are AR pattern which prolly won't pass muster in CA. They also have Glock lower for 45.
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- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: Would Like S&W to make 9mm Carbine
Move out of California. Problem solved.
M. M. Wright, Sheriff, Green county Arkansas (1860)
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- fordwannabe
- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: Would Like S&W to make 9mm Carbine
I had a hi point carbine for a couple weeks when another forum member needed it. I actually liked it alot, except for only 10 round mags. OTOH my puma with a 16 inch barrel in 357/38 will fill the same role.
a Pennsylvanian who has been accused of clinging to my religion and my guns......Good assessment skills.
Re: Would Like S&W to make 9mm Carbine
The same people who tested an Uberti SAA clone in the same group as a Freedom Arms 83 in 454, some cutting edge apple to orange reviews there.JohndeFresno wrote: ↑Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:24 pm
Yes - GunTests.com - a subscription that reviews guns with no favors or advertising, just like Consumer Reports - has given an "A" rating to this and the Thureon.
(the FA didn't do well because it was expensive and it recoiled too much. 454 recoils? No kidding? )
Slow is just slow.
- 2ndovc
- Advanced Levergunner
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- Location: OH, South Shore of Lake Erie
Re: Would Like S&W to make 9mm Carbine
The Sig MPXs are pricey but so worth it if you're looking for a 9mm carbine. I was just about to buy a Colt when this one came up for sale. Mags are out there, Gen 1 work just as well as the Gen 2 and at half the cost and available in 10,20, and 30 rounders. I'm up to 7-800 rounds without a single malfunction. I know the dual mag thing is a cool idea and looked at the JRC, Areo takedown, and another I can't think of right now but in the end I thought ten 30 round MPX mags will do just fine without worrying about if they'll fit in my pistol.
jb
jb
jasonB " Another Dirty Yankee"
" Tomorrow the sun will rise. Who knows what the tide could bring?"
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- Advanced Levergunner
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- Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:52 pm
Re: Would Like S&W to make 9mm Carbine
Need a 10 rounder (only). I am looking into a gun grab in my state's immediate future - and possibly yours. Anything holding more than 10 rounds with external mag is chancy, from the way things are going and fueled by seemingly daily mass shootings, now.
For my state, a 10 round grip magazine that shares single stack mags with the now ubiquitous 9mm Shield should be a seller.
For my state, a 10 round grip magazine that shares single stack mags with the now ubiquitous 9mm Shield should be a seller.
Re: Would Like S&W to make 9mm Carbine
I have a 9mm keltec. Like it a lot. You won't get anything lighter. I think it weighs less than an Uzi.
It seems to be accurate and reliable so far. Mags are available for beretta pistols and aftermarket 25 rounders, which double as handy refills for the xd. just to have ammo handy to replenish the xd mags, the beretta mags are close but I can't get them to function in the springfield.
Anyway, I doubt smith could produce anything close to the handiness of the keltec for anything less than three times the price and doubtful utility beyond what keltec already makes.
Shooting at knock-down targets with the carbine and the xdsc, there is a noticeable increase in impact with the carbine, although I haven't quantified the velocity difference.
The new model keltec with the groovy stock is a little nicer because it incorporates features that are after market items on the second model.
obviously an Uzi firing from an open bolt is way far more groovier, but . . .
It seems to be accurate and reliable so far. Mags are available for beretta pistols and aftermarket 25 rounders, which double as handy refills for the xd. just to have ammo handy to replenish the xd mags, the beretta mags are close but I can't get them to function in the springfield.
Anyway, I doubt smith could produce anything close to the handiness of the keltec for anything less than three times the price and doubtful utility beyond what keltec already makes.
Shooting at knock-down targets with the carbine and the xdsc, there is a noticeable increase in impact with the carbine, although I haven't quantified the velocity difference.
The new model keltec with the groovy stock is a little nicer because it incorporates features that are after market items on the second model.
obviously an Uzi firing from an open bolt is way far more groovier, but . . .
. . . Grizz
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- 2ndovc
- Advanced Levergunner
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- Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:59 am
- Location: OH, South Shore of Lake Erie
Re: Would Like S&W to make 9mm Carbine
Ugh! Wasn't paying attention to the reason/ location.JohndeFresno wrote: ↑Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:53 pm Need a 10 rounder (only). I am looking into a gun grab in my state's immediate future - and possibly yours. Anything holding more than 10 rounds with external mag is chancy, from the way things are going and fueled by seemingly daily mass shootings, now.
For my state, a 10 round grip magazine that shares single stack mags with the now ubiquitous 9mm Shield should be a seller.
jb
jasonB " Another Dirty Yankee"
" Tomorrow the sun will rise. Who knows what the tide could bring?"
" Tomorrow the sun will rise. Who knows what the tide could bring?"
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- Advanced Levergunner
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- Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:52 pm
Re: Would Like S&W to make 9mm Carbine
One can pick apart any publication or product if they look hard enough for something to prove their point.
I have been a Gun-Tests subscriber for many years and have found their product reviews to be far more unbiased, accurate and reliable than any other gun publication currently available.
Unlike all of the high distribution gun periodicals, they do not accept hosted trips to a company sponsored ranch to try out the various firearms.
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- Advanced Levergunner
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- Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:52 pm
Re: Would Like S&W to make 9mm Carbine
Brother-in-law and family is doing so. So are a few of my friends.
I can't, so far; "asked and answered" many times before on this site. Does not solve my particular situation.