Casting Issue

[Griff]

I have been having a issue with casting lately. Last year my 35 year old Lyman Mag20 quit heating. So, the power unit in our house okayed me to buy a new pot. I got the new Lyman Mag25. Has a built in PID. At the same time I bought a Lee Pro IV with a PID that I got in trade for the old Lyman pot.
I really like the Mag 25, it's stable, and although I've cast a whole bunch of my 45-225-CAV bullets... without an issue. But, in casting some .30-30 GCFN I started having "folding" problems. They've started to lessen, as I've upped the meld temp, but... now I'm casting at 750ºF. Seems way too hot. And still getting folded bullets from both molds.

I haven't tested any to see of they're very hard... but I generally let the pot get low, then add the same mix of 6 parts WW to 1 part Linotype. I generally put the two molds I'm going to work with on top of the pot to warm as the meld is brought up to temp. Then I'll run one mold for about 6 - 10 fills dumping all the bullets back in the meld to get it hot, then start working the second mold into rotation to get it hot enough to run bullets...
The Saeco #316 has started to produce better bullets, but the new RCBS 40-300-CAV mold I got a few weeks ago is still producing "folded" noses and not quite filling out the lube grooves.

While these from the Saeco 316 are not the best, I'll probably go ahead and use 'em, in our short range target matches, at least until the meld in the pot is gone. Maybe I'll do hardness test on them tomorrow and see if I have gotten too much Lino in the pot. Then I'll put new lead in, and watch the addition of Linotype more carefully. With only 50 lbs of WWs left, I'll get scrounging soon! I've never had this problem before and am wondering if anyone else has, and what they found the cause was. Sure hope it's not something else.

[ollogger]

Zinc in the WW? clean the RCBS mold again, heck I don't know??
I've had my share of problems casting


Brad

[Shasta]

I think the mould is too cold. At least that was the problem when my bullets looked like that. I use a small travel iron turned upside down on my bench to pre-heat the moulds. They need to be pretty hot to drop good bullets. I keep my lead around 625* in the pot.

Shasta

[Griff]

I think the mould is too cold. At least that was the problem when my bullets looked like that. I use a small travel iron turned upside down on my bench to pre-heat the moulds. They need to be pretty hot to drop good bullets. I keep my lead around 625* in the pot.
Shasta

Seems to be the consensus over at CastBoolits.com also. Suggested running just one mold very fast. I'll give it a try tomorrow. I have a hot plate that I'll pre-heat the mold on. Wait... I'll have to dig it out of the trash, the boy was cleaning up the shop today. and threw it out... said something about the cord... I'll have to look.

[Mainehunter]

I had similar problems when I started using the aluminum NOE molds. After a few test runs I now pre-heat those molds on a hot plate with a large coffee can that I cut out that acts like a lid. The wrinkles went away and what's nice I was able to lower the temp on my lead alloy mix a few degrees.

Mainehunter

[GunnyMack]

Sure looks like a cold mould.
Griff if you have your wood stove going try warming your moulds by setting them on top. Free heat!

[fordwannabe]

Looks like a cold mold to me....but I would give them a good shot of brake cleaner, in case they got some type of oil/lube in them.

[Sixgun]

Griff,
It's obvious that you know your "stuff" when casting bullets.....such as using a thermometer to make sure your alloy is between 650 and a high end of 750...and not depending on the dial on the furnace.........working the mould up to temperature........knowing that it takes a large cavity mould less time to heat up than a small cavity.....properly degreasing the mould before use............knowing the mould previously made nice bullets.

It's a no brainer to see the problem.....if you have followed the above knowledge........Olloger said it...you have zinc in your alloy....did you add something extra since the 45 Colt bullets?......it only takes something like .01% to mess up a pot. Empty the pot and load it up with a known alloy, preferably previously cast bullets that you don't need.......eliminate the variables------6

[Chuck 100 yd]

Griff. I agree that the mold is not hot enough. I use an inexpensive hot plate I bought new for $19
To preheat my molds. No more wrinkles or partial fills. Also a little more Tin in the Alloy helps a lot.

[Griff]

Griff. I agree that the mold is not hot enough. I use an inexpensive hot plate I bought new for $19
To preheat my molds. No more wrinkles or partial fills. Also a little more Tin in the Alloy helps a lot.

The molds are hot enough... pre-heating them on top of the pot for like 30 - 60 minutes as the meld heats... then running several dumps thru them as fast as possible, really gets them hot... I can't treat my aluminum molds like that, they get too hot... I'm generally running one aluminum & one steel, these are two steel molds.

If I do, as Sixgun & Ollogger suggest, have some zinc, (yea Sixgun, this batch is from an Flea-bay seller), I know adding tin will help ameliorate the "folding"; but, oh... how much tin to add? Adding more linotype will only get my bullets harder... due to the high antimony in Lino... Oh I'm getting a headache. Next batch of casting lead will be coming from Rotometal!!!

I guess this means delving into a facet of casting I've tried studious to avoid! This stuff has been in the pot in varying amounts for the past year... I went thru approximately 50 lbs of this stuff as I've cast over the last year... with nearly 20 lbs in the pot, less the approximately 3-½lbs of linotype that I commonly alloy in with my WWs at a 6:1 ratio... I have some pure lead, (don't cast as many RBs as I used to), but no tin... I guess I could buy some soldering wire, guess the solid core stuff... I certainly don't need to add antimony...

[Sixgun]

Griff,
Come on, your a smart guy....adding tin or antimony to a pot of lead that may possibly be contaminated is like adding more sugar to a cup of coffee that someone put a few drops of diesel fuel in.

Don't waste the tin......

Try this...going from my head here....may find a better solution elsewhere........

Heat the pot up to high heat........say...750............stir the pot like it owes you money, scraping the sides and bottom.........add a quality flux........say pure beeswax.......stir the pot like it owes you $1,000.........light off the smoke.......let the junk rise to the top.....zinc is lighter than lead........don't be frugal as to how much junk you take off the top.....dig in and waste a few pounds.

Do the above 3 times.....you can never over flux.........if this don't do it, I'll take the next flight to Texas to steal your guns.....and the Black Rose...you just have to tell me how to drive it. ------6

[Griff]

Yeah, I wondered about re-fluxing, it was my first "go to", but with the shop closed up due to the cold... okay, so it's only in the 50s, it's still cold to this Texas boy! Gotta buy some more flux. But, my more immediate problem is getting a .30-06 case outta my sizer die! Tell ya how the fluxing goes later...

[marlinman93]

It sure looks too cold of a casting temperature, or too cold of a mold. I just sit my molds on a piece of flat bar above my furnaces, so it warms up with the furnace and stays warm there if I stop casting. I also leave the last bullet in my mold if I stop as it works like a heat sink to maintain heat.
I'd ignore temperature settings, and turn the heat up until the wrinkles go away. Unless the bullets start looking frosty, it's not too hot. I also keep a rhythm going as I cast, so once I start dropping bullets, I keep going at a speed that provides consistently good bullets.

[M. M. Wright]

I used to buy 50/50 bar solder, like they used to use in body shops. Allowed me to get exactly the alloy I wanted when I alloyed it with pure lead. Can't find it any more but you can buy pure tin from John Walters, the one who sells wads.
I still have about a thousand pounds of no. 2 cast in linotype molds that I use for most stuff. You know lots and lots of 200 grain 44s.

I got a new 3 cavity .461 300 GC from accurate recently. Brass and I love it. I have a Roller in 11.7 X 51R that requires the .461 bullet. I can size them down for the other four 45s I have.

Figuring out what is in recent wheel weights is impossible. Some of the new ones have no lead at all. I think I'd run it out in ingots to save for jigs and sinkers then start over for bullets with a known alloy.

[Ben_Rumson]

The nose of the bullet will show chill folds if the melt enters the mold too slow Hold the mold right against the nozzle & see if that helps

[AJMD429]

Do you have a way to double-check the actual temperatures...???

[GunnyMack]

So I have an idea Griff- try that mix in other moulds! If more moulds have same issue then you know it's the mix. If not then you have a problem with that specific mould(s).
If it's the mix, pour ingots and sell it off.
Or just use it for plinking ammo and send it down range!

[Griff]

Mold wasn't getting hot enough. Fluxed with a bunch of wax, and a little bit of contaminates came up, but not enough to really cause the issue. Casting with just the single mold today... produced a bunch of good boolits:

I didn't even take time to inspect each drop as it came out... trying to run the mold faster than I usually do... you can see some of the early ones in the upper part of the pan... those'll get sorted out and remelted.

Nice crisp corners and no "folds" in the nose or elsewhere.


After I'd ran 10 or 12 dumps I started noticed that I had less and less "swirl" showing in the base after cutting the sprue off. Then, a few drops later, it was gone... an looking at the noses, smooth and silky looking. I might have some dust in one half, will inspect it after everything cools off and I drop out what in there... started getting towards the dinner bell, so it was quittin' time!

Next to drill out the set screw on the Saeco mold and get a new one in there! Always something... no?

[JohndeFresno]

Griff, as you know, I have not yet gotten into casting. But I have sure read tons about it. And besides, I've stayed at the Holiday Inn!

I recall many casters suggesting that you dip the edge of the mold itself into the pot to bring it up to the right temperature. It seems to me that this would be a good way to equalize the stuff that is being cast with the steel that is holding it; and your observation finally pointed to the problem of having the right temperature on the mold.

That's all I have.

[Sixgun]

Hey Griff...take those bullets that have wrinkles in them and shoot them. I've done that many times experimenting and never could tell the difference between most of them. The ones that do shoot bad are one side with bad bases or ones that have an inner air pocket and may weigh 10-15 gr. lighter.

[Griff]

Hey Griff...take those bullets that have wrinkles in them and shoot them. I've done that many times experimenting and never could tell the difference between most of them. The ones that do shoot bad are one side with bad bases or ones that have an inner air pocket and may weigh 10-15 gr. lighter.

All the bad ones went back in the meld, except the few in the pan in the above pic. The others'll get lubed, sized and loaded for the Sharps... Still have 160 or so new, unfired cases from Bertram. Plus a few fired cases... Plan on doing some shooting tomorrow... ain't gonna let this month get by without shootin' in the Leverguns Postal match. Plus, I haven't fired the '66 Centennial since I put the tang sight & Lyman #17A on it. Needs sightin' in.

[marlinman93]

I rarely sort during casting, unless I see an obvious cull that goes right into the pot. Once my towel gets full of dropped bullets, I stop with a bullet in my mold and sit it on top of the pot (on the piece of bar stock). Then I make room by sorting the bullets I cast, and get right back to fast casting.
If I'm doing multiple calibers I put the next mold on the furnace to warm up as I box up the last caliber. Then by the time I'm done getting things out of the way the molds are warm and ready to start the next batch.
I often cast 500-700 bullets in a session, as I don't cast until I'm getting closer to wanting to reload the same bullets.

[walks with gun]

You can also try dissolving a Viagra in water and then drop the bullets in there, helps get the wrinkles out.

[Sixgun]

You can also try dissolving a Viagra in water and then drop the bullets in there, helps get the wrinkles out.

I was thinking about that and ought to try it. I was asking a buddy about viagra and he told me you have to have 8" for it to work properly and I told him the only way I could do that is to fold it in half. He laughed and told me his was only 2"..............from the ground. -------6

[elmo123]

I used to have the same problem and then I bought one of the thermal temperature guns and learned that my steel molds have to be about 250 degrees to cast decent bullets. I usually rest the cold mold on the edge of the furnace while the melt is getting hot enough.