Got my hands on a decent 38-55 (photos)

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:36 pm

Got this one a few months ago. Took some photos today. It's a beauty, with lots of case colouring on the lever and some nice figuring on the buttstock.
SN 258230
SN applied: 3-8-1905
Date in: 3-28-1905
Type: Rifle
Caliber: 38/55
Barrel: Round
Trigger: Plain
Date shipped: 4-1-1905
Order: 5091

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:56 pm

That's a real beauty Kirk. Shoot well?

ollogger · Post by **ollogger** » Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:34 pm

Kirk, you always find a great gun & blow it out of the stadium with a awesome photo!!

Brad

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:36 pm

Tycer wrote:That's a real beauty Kirk. Shoot well?

It shoots very well using a standard weight bullet (255 grains) at either the original BP velocity of 1,300 fps, or the later High Velocity 1,600 fps. I'm talking approximately 2", five-shot groups at 100 yards.

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:44 pm

Wow, very nice!

Sounds like its a good shooter as well.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:48 pm

Beautiful....

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:48 am

That's a really nice find, looks more like 2005 than 1905.

guido4198 · Post by **guido4198** » Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:08 am

That's a gorgeous rifle.
I've never owned a 38/55 but have always been intrigued by that caliber. Congratulations on a great find.
Thank you for sharing.

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:07 am

Nice one Kirk, I am still enjoying the one I got from you, great accuracy

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:52 am

Borregos wrote:Nice one Kirk, I am still enjoying the one I got from you, great accuracy

Pete, I'm glad you are still enjoying it. I was just thinking about that one the other day. It was my very first vintage Winchester and my first 38-55. I also bagged a Whitetail buck with that one. I've got a lot of good memories of that rifle.

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:12 pm

Spectacular rifle Kirk! Not many that well kept left anymore!

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:43 pm

WOW !!.

.

Catshooter · Post by **Catshooter** » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:36 pm

Sweet rifle! Barrel length?

Cat

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:21 pm

Such a fine rifle Kirk, 24 or 26 inch barrel? Will you make meat with it this year? I had a herd of does and a nice wide rack buck through here several times this afternoon. was carrying the 1892 32wcf but could not get the shot I wanted, they may be back tomorrow.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:38 pm

JerryB wrote:Such a fine rifle Kirk, 24 or 26 inch barrel? Will you make meat with it this year?

Cat and Jerry, it is a standard 26" round barrel. I would very much like to make meat with it, but this year's hunt is over. In the meantime, however, I've already put about a hundred rounds through it at the range.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:26 am

Ok, I've got it down pat now... Kirk's "decent" rifle translates to my "safe queen"...

That's a real looker Kirk!

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:33 am

It`s a beauty Kirk, thanks for showing it.

M. M. Wright · Post by **M. M. Wright** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:00 am

Kirk, it would look especially good with a cloud of white smoke coming out of it.

Thanks for sharing.

JOHNNY WACKO · Post by **JOHNNY WACKO** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:08 am

nice shape ,boy if it could talk you would have to tell it to shut up.with all those years of stories.

thanks for the pictures there way better then words.

hondo1892 · Post by **hondo1892** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:49 pm

Wow, great rifle. Glad to see you post another great Winchester again.

southfork · Post by **southfork** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:13 pm

So what loads are you shooting through it? Factory or reloads? If the latter, would you care to share your loading data?

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:41 pm

Very nice!

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:40 pm

southfork wrote:So what loads are you shooting through it? Factory or reloads? If the latter, would you care to share your loading data?

I've probably done more load experimentation with the 38-55 than any other caliber, and with more different rifles/carbines. The rifle I now have is an example of a completely standard Winchester Model 1894 from that era. I find that the round barrel shooting characteristics are not the same as the octagon barrel characteristics.

One of the very interesting discoveries I made with this particular rifle is that it gives me the best accuracy at around 1,300 fps and 1,600 fps with a standard 255 grain cast bullet (my actual weight is 262 grains lubed, sized and gas-checked). In between, the groups tend to stretch out vertically.

1,300 fps:
My favourite powder is 5744 but I can't seem to find it anywhere up here in Canada anymore, so I've resorted to using 2400, in addition to 5744. The two loads are as follows:

15 grains of 2400 over a Winchester Magnum primer for 1,341 fps and a 4-shot group of 1 & 7/8" at 100 yards.
17 grains of 5744 over a Winchester Magnum primer for 1,307 fps and a 5-shot group of around 2" at 100 yards.

1,600 fps:
24 grains of RL-7 over a magnum primer, with a 262 grain Accurate GC soft cast bullet for 1,591 fps and a 10-shot group of 2 & 5/8" at 100 yards.
25 grains of RL-7 over a mag primer, with a 246 grain Stone Fence JFP bullet for 1,550 fps and a 5-shot group of 2 & 11/16" at 100 yards.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:42 pm

KirkD wrote:Got this one a few months ago. Took some photos today. It's a beauty, with lots of case colouring on the lever and some nice figuring on the buttstock.
SN 258230
SN applied: 3-8-1905
Date in: 3-28-1905
Type: Rifle
Caliber: 38/55
Barrel: Round
Trigger: Plain
Date shipped: 4-1-1905
Order: 5091

What a peach!

You sure can sniff'm out friend!

N.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:20 pm

Nath wrote: What a peach!

You sure can sniff'm out friend!

You and Gamekeeper should come over sometime and we'll have a good time shooting it.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:21 am

KirkD wrote:
Nath wrote: What a peach!

You sure can sniff'm out friend!
You and Gamekeeper should come over sometime and we'll have a good time shooting it.

I'll get the canoe greased up

Thank you.

N.

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:19 pm

SWEET!!!!!!!

southfork · Post by **southfork** » Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:16 pm

Kirk, Those loads that you developed look to be very accurate. Thanks for your notes. Which 255 grain mold did you use for casting the gas-checked bullets?

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:29 am

love that 38-55.....real beauty!

Wish mine was a vintage rifle

Rube Burrows · Post by **Rube Burrows** » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:01 am

Very good looking rifle. Congrats.

geobru · Post by **geobru** » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:53 am

You really do know how to find them Kirk! That is one NICE rifle!

I am intrigued by your comment about the difference in octagon versus round barrel performance.

How do they differ in your experience?

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:59 pm

geobru wrote:You really do know how to find them Kirk! That is one NICE rifle!

I am intrigued by your comment about the difference in octagon versus round barrel performance.

How do they differ in your experience?

The octagon artel is stiffer so is not so sensitive to different loads.

South fork: it is an Accurate mould but I'm on the road for a few days and can't check the mould number. I'll try to remember to do that when I get back home.

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:50 pm

WOW and NICE... :)

southfork · Post by **southfork** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:53 pm

Kirk, if your back at home from your travels, have you had a chance to check your 38-55 bullet mould particulars and number? I picked up my 38-55 Model 1894 rifle today. It also has a round barrel, but is a commemorative rifle.
- Southfork

piller · Post by **piller** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:03 pm

Nice looking rifle. 255 grains in .38 sounds as if it would be a long stable bullet. How well does it penetrate on game? Pass through on deer sized game?

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:08 pm

Piller, My son sent a Winchester 94 to JES Reboring 3or 4 years ago and we got back a really fine 38-55 carbine. Kirk gave me some load data and I shot a big doe that fall. The load was a 255 grain hard cast bullet and 18 grains of 5744 powder. The shot was a complete pass through at about 30 yards, that was a very dead deer. It was standing broad side, right side to me, all innards and left shoulder was jelled.

Carlsen Highway · Post by **Carlsen Highway** » Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:38 am

Wow what a beautiful rifle, and well photographed.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Fri Dec 02, 2016 1:52 pm

southfork wrote:Kirk, if your back at home from your travels, have you had a chance to check your 38-55 bullet mould particulars and number? I picked up my 38-55 Model 1894 rifle today. It also has a round barrel, but is a commemorative rifle.
- Southfork

Good to be home for a few days. Sorry for the delay, Southfork. Here it is http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_det ... 255L-D.png I went with the brass, two-cavity option. For the last few years, I don't bother looking around for moulds, I just go straight to Accurate Moulds and see what they got. Customizing a mould is free. You specify your alloy and what you plan to size them to, and they adjust the mould diameter accordingly. Lubed and gas-checked, my bullets weigh in at 262 grains with clip on wheel weight alloy. They give excellent accuracy in my 38-55's as well as a 38-72 I once had.

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:14 pm

A buddy of mine was given a Marlin 38-55, we finally tracked down a box of factory loads and took it to try it out. Couldn't hit paper at 50! So we moved to 25 and put a bigger piece of paper up, then we found it shot patterns instead of groups.
We knew the bore was dark and pitted but had no idea it was that bad!
Discussed having it relined but he wants it to stay original. So it hangs over his mantle now.
That Marlin probably never saw a cleaning rod!
Real shame, what a great caliber!

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:13 pm

GunnyMack wrote:A buddy of mine was given a Marlin 38-55, we finally tracked down a box of factory loads and took it to try it out. Couldn't hit paper at 50! So we moved to 25 and put a bigger piece of paper up, then we found it shot patterns instead of groups.
We knew the bore was dark and pitted but had no idea it was that bad!
Discussed having it relined but he wants it to stay original. So it hangs over his mantle now.
That Marlin probably never saw a cleaning rod!
Real shame, what a great caliber!

I expect that the main problem is an oversize bore. I've seen Marlins with a .384 groove diameter. This can be fixed by sizing the bullets as large as they will chamber and using soft cast bullets. That Marlin with a 384 bore gave me 2" groups at 100 yards with oversize bullets. I've never seen a bore so bad it wouldn't give five-shot groups of 4" or less at 100 yards, and I've seen some sewer pipes in '73's and '76's. See if he can slug his bore and measure the groove diameter. I'll bet it's oversize.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:27 pm

KirkD wrote:
GunnyMack wrote:A buddy of mine was given a Marlin 38-55, we finally tracked down a box of factory loads and took it to try it out. Couldn't hit paper at 50! So we moved to 25 and put a bigger piece of paper up, then we found it shot patterns instead of groups.
We knew the bore was dark and pitted but had no idea it was that bad!
Discussed having it relined but he wants it to stay original. So it hangs over his mantle now.
That Marlin probably never saw a cleaning rod!
Real shame, what a great caliber!
I expect that the main problem is an oversize bore. I've seen Marlins with a .384 groove diameter. This can be fixed by sizing the bullets as large as they will chamber and using soft cast bullets. That Marlin with a 384 bore gave me 2" groups at 100 yards with oversize bullets. I've never seen a bore so bad it wouldn't give five-shot groups of 4" or less at 100 yards, and I've seen some sewer pipes in '73's and '76's. See if he can slug his bore and measure the groove diameter. I'll bet it's oversize.

+1.

southfork · Post by **southfork** » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:02 pm

KirkD wrote:
southfork wrote:Kirk, if your back at home from your travels, have you had a chance to check your 38-55 bullet mould particulars and number? I picked up my 38-55 Model 1894 rifle today. It also has a round barrel, but is a commemorative rifle.
- Southfork
Good to be home for a few days. Sorry for the delay, Southfork. Here it is http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_det ... 255L-D.png I went with the brass, two-cavity option. For the last few years, I don't bother looking around for moulds, I just go straight to Accurate Moulds and see what they got. Customizing a mould is free. You specify your alloy and what you plan to size them to, and they adjust the mould diameter accordingly. Lubed and gas-checked, my bullets weigh in at 262 grains with clip on wheel weight alloy. They give excellent accuracy in my 38-55's as well as a 38-72 I once had.

Thanks for that mold info, Kirk. I appreciate it!