New Henry, new to forum

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:11 pm

Just spent another hour & a half on this bore.
Sweets 7.62 took quite a bit of copper out.
Then I switched over to the JB BORE compound, applied it 3 times.
Good news is it IS cleaning up! Patches are now showing just a touch of grey and not black. Figure I'll keep pushing patches, see if I can get white in one end and out the other!

Not going to shoot it until bore scope gets here, want to see it before I dirty it up again. I still can not believe this bore!

flatnose · Post by **flatnose** » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:58 pm

Hmmm. 50+ patches and scrubbing to get down to copper. If you were removing black stuff, that was probably powder fouling. I wonder just how thick the fouling was.
Thinking out loud if the rifle barrel is a 44 cal thats been miss stamped and mis chambered?

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:03 pm

If that were the case, the 41's that I have put down range probably wouldn't cut circular hole at 25 yards. But it's a possibility the bore is oversize.
Not slugged it yet since I'm still trying to clean it.

The Sweets did a great job decoppering, now it's just black residue. Ran more JB and slowly it's getting better. Going to hit it more tomorrow.

flatnose · Post by **flatnose** » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:11 pm

Yes I agree. How many berrys did you shoot, and what was the load?
Keep up the good work and it will come clean.

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:29 pm

This barrel has seen ONLY jacketed bullets, about 65 jacketed bullets. The blueing would not come off with a copper solvent. Ammonia is copper solvent, ammonia will rust steel if left unchecked.
Being a new bore my plan is/was only jacketed until broke in but since I was having so much trouble getting it to come clean the whole process has been making me scratch my head, thus my joining this forum, to see if anyone else has had this with a Henry.
I know old bores can be tough between neglect, pitting,rust but I have never seen a new bore like this!

Again, any ideas and thoughts are welcome.

Once I get this clean and broken in I might play with ceramic coating it. More research!!

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:35 pm

Flatnose-
Maybe about 20 of the Berry bullets.
When I first shot it, was about 10 nosler 210 JHP , then 5 210 XTPs. Took it home to clean and that's when I saw more copper then steel. Thought I had it clean but boy was I wrong!!
Second time was the Berry and couple more Noslers.
Was not shooting groups of any sort. That got me to head scratching!
Load I was using was 20.0 grains of H110.
I have 5 other powders to try but NOT until it's clean!

flatnose · Post by **flatnose** » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:49 pm

I have shot a lot of berrys, mostly in revolver. I could not get jacketed velocities out of their plated bullets without leading the bore, but they did work well midway between jacketed and cast upto about 1200fps. I only ever had one barrel that bad, and that was an old 30-06. I think it had never been cleaned. Gave up with the patches and brush and switched to outers foulout which is sadly no longer made. It still took hours and several fluid changes to come clean. I must have removed enough junk to actually make a bullet. That barrel was toast.

flatnose · Post by **flatnose** » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:50 pm

I have shot a lot of berrys, mostly in revolver. I could not get jacketed velocities out of their plated bullets without leading the bore, but they did work well midway between jacketed and cast upto about 1200fps. I only ever had one barrel that bad, and that was an old 30-06. I think it had never been cleaned. Gave up with the patches and brush and switched to outers foulout which is sadly no longer made. It still took hours and several fluid changes to come clean. I must have removed enough junk to actually make a bullet. That barrel was toast.

flatnose · Post by **flatnose** » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:52 pm

I seem to have an echo

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:57 pm

Save yourself a lot of brain work and slug the bore and if you get a measurement of more than .411, dump the rifle.

Copper fouling with only 15 jacketed bullets? In my semi autos...several AR's, Garand, M1-A,and the BAR, I clean out the copper fouling every 200 rounds or so....and it's easy.

Slug the bore.-----6

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:59 am

Not having any 44 round balls on hand I made a die so I could drive a 54 round ball thru. So, after sizing a slug, it seems the bore is sized correctly, measures right at .400-.403. Again confirming it is not an oversize bore, just rough as a cobb!
Will spend some elbow grease on scrubbing, then hit the loading bench and go shoot this afternoon. Wish me luck! Will post results later.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:22 am

Aye, luck to ya mate!

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:53 pm

WHOO-HOO!!
So the copper fouling issue must have been caused by the Berry plated bullets. And the cause of poor groups.
I started out by shooting 3 rounds, 19 gr of 5744& 210 XTP, nice light plinker load, grouped fair at 50 yds, about 3". This is half the size of the original groups I shot last weekend. I cleaned the bore before the next three as I made scope adjustments. Cleaned again, shot 3, cleaned. Very minimal copper fouling.

After those 9 rounds I tried the 4 different loads I made up this morning.
3 rounds each, shot at 50 yards.
7.5 gr Bullseye, 210 Nosler, touched all three
20.5 IMR 4227, 210 Nosler, about 3/4-1" group
13.0 800X, 210 Nosler, almost touched 2, pulled the third REAL BAD, ruined the group. I knew it when the shot broke.
22.0 Lil Gun, 210 Nosler, touched all three again!
I will post pics as soon as I resize them all.

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:06 pm

Pics from today

kasTX · Post by **kasTX** » Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:13 pm

Nice! Looks like you got a good one after all.

You had me a bit worried. I have a Big Boy Steel Carbine in 44Mag on the way to replace a Marlin that shoots no better than the first groups you were getting. If the new Henry shoots as well as yours I will be very happy.

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:20 pm

yes I hope your new 44 behaves better then this one did!
Granted I now have only about 85 rounds thru this one, still has some break in to do.

I think I am going to relay my experience to Henry. With a few questions as well!

JerryB · Post by **JerryB** » Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:46 pm

I reckon you did get a keeper after all.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:53 pm

Congrats.

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:57 pm

Of course this didn't come easy, these are the patches I used today to clean between every three shot group!
That's a drop in the bucket compared to what I used since I started cleaning this barrel!

flatnose · Post by **flatnose** » Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:22 pm

Congratulations.
The berrys are soft swaged with a thin copper plate for the pistol caliber bullets, and usually will not hold up to high velocities. The rifle bullests are also swaged but have thicker plating and will go higher.
I have generally surpassed the berrys velocities and pressures with regular cast bullets of suitable alloy. Nothing wrong with berrys with the right powder and velocity.

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:31 pm

Yes, I have learned about the Berry stuff- the HARD WAY!

Only reason I bought Berry's was mostly for sighting in ammo. Instead of using up high dollar bullets. I won't make that mistake again.glad I didn't buy 500!
I have since picked up another hundred XTPs and a hundred of Sierras. I would really like to find some Remington's.

Not sure if I'll try any cast stuff anytime soon. Have to get this barrel well broken in first.

I happened to notice that the 5744 load was not complete burn- quite a few un-burned pieces of powder in the barrel. I haven't noticed that in my AR .450 Bushmaster!

Again, thanks to all for their input!!!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:12 pm

So... you're saying good futures investment will be cleaning patches?

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:21 pm

Yes if all the rest of the Henry's have rough bores like this one!!

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:12 am

Glad to see you made progress. It looks like a rough bore is the heart of the problem. A good session fire lapping would probably pay off .

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:23 am

Rusty, yes I think you are right. I need to do some research on that before I attempt it. I know it is pretty much straight forward.

Did a good clean on it yesterday, about 35 patches to come clean including JB bore paste. It is cleaning up faster but still way too much effort!

I am very pleased with the groups now! Yeah only 50 yard groups but still quite impressive. If it shoots tha well at 100 I might have to give up some of my less accurate bolt rigs.

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:39 am

Fire lapping is easy. You have complete control over how much metal is removed.

PriseDeFer · Post by **PriseDeFer** » Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:48 pm

Factory ammo yet? When everything else has been tried or fiddled with. It will be your last thing before shipping it back.

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Tue Sep 27, 2016 5:50 pm

No need for factory ammo- it's shooting 1 hole groups, now!
I posted a couple groups , just a rough bore!

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:09 pm

Once you get the bore scope post some pictures.

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:10 pm

Will post pics, IF I can figure out how!!

PriseDeFer · Post by **PriseDeFer** » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:07 pm

What I get for skipping ahead...Now I've read it I stand in awe of your determination.
You will go far.

kasTX · Post by **kasTX** » Tue Sep 27, 2016 10:35 pm

GunnyMack,

My Henry 44 Carbine came in today, so I headed to the range in the afternoon after a quick cleaning. Pretty much all good news - the bore looks great (although I was surprised to see what looked more like microgroove rifling) and it shot great too. First group of three rounds was 7/8" at 50 yards, and that was with my less-than-stellar eyes and the factory buckhorns that I really don't care for. It cleaned up easily afterwards (all jacketed, no plated or lead). On the downside, he blueing on the barrel is nothing special and the trigger needs work.

I also brought my Marlin 1894 in 44 for comparison and to employ some of the advice given in this thread. First group of three (with red dot for sight) was a sloppy 3.25" at 50 yards. I then loosened all the screws forward of the receiver and shot 1.75". Hmmm. I then took everything off forward of the receiver and shot four rounds into 2" with one flyer that was probably me due to the strange configuration. Without the flyer the group was right at an inch. The shift in point of impact between he first and last groups was over a foot! I have a book around here somewhere on accurizing factory rifles that I need to find and re-read, but that can wait given how well the Henry shoots.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:56 pm

Verbal Smith at LBT Moulds heavily promotes fire lapping. He sells a kit that comes with a vial of compound and the instructions.

He has answered many questions about it over on graybeards out door forums.

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:51 am

Kastex- good to hear your new friend is a performer!
I'm sure that my fouling issue was caused by the Berry plated stuff.
While I was shooting mine(2nd range trip) I notice the forend cap was touching the bottom of the barrel. That's when I had an 'ah-ha' moment. As the barrel warmed the cap put upward pressure on the barrel causing POI shift. When I got home I took it apart, relieved the cap and also chased the barrel channel in the forearm. NOTE: to remove mag tube yuo must take trigger group out to access mag tube retaining screw under front tang.
Yes, I'm not all that impressed with the polish/blueing on the barrel & mag tube. But I guess they figure as a hunting rig it'll be less apt to shine. The laser etched make/model doesn't lead me to think you could high polish and reblue without losing the letters. I would have preferred a bead blast blue over the sanding belt marks, but that's me.

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:58 pm

Ok fellas- don't buy an endoscope from eBay!!
This one cost me $11.99 and it's not worth the hassle of ordering it!
First off, instructions to install software is 1 run on sentence that doesn't make sense.
Secondly NORTON immediately flagged it for being a Trojan Gen 2
Thirdly after I did get software to load the directions are in Chinese, google translated it but it still didn't install everything. So now I have to fight to get this sent back and get my money back...

PRAY TRUMP WINS AND MAYBE WE CAN PUT PEOPLE TO WORK MAKING US GOOD BORE SCOPES!!!

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Wed Sep 28, 2016 6:21 pm

Alright, here is the Henry bore! I had to dig up an old laptop to make it work!
From what I can see, just a bit of crackle near chamber mouth, one suspicious spot there as well.

Again this $12 bore scope is NOT worth the effort!

Camera end is .390" so is only good for big bores.

Camel73 · Post by **Camel73** » Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:59 pm

Thanks for the heads up on the ebay borescopes... Was thinking of clicking one up tonight but maybe I'll wait on that...

Glad to see things are getting worked out, literally. Your patience and determination look like they're paying off. Happy days...

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:04 pm

Took me a while to figure out to use mine.

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:05 am

Well, I had to dig up a 12 year old lap top that doesn't work too well to get camera to work.
My 2 good computers would not run the software because it has a virus on it!
The instructions are junk, and in Chinese.
Contacted eBay seller- their response is here try this to load software... Umm NO!
Have never liked eBay!

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:25 am

UPS dropped me a package yesterday! 1# of CFE PISTOL- going to use this in the Henry. This may help this bore. Anyone see any real benefit with CFE PISTOL?

I use CFE223 in my AR10, very accurate but haven't had a fouling issue... UPS left me 8# of this too!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:23 am

GunnyMack wrote:UPS dropped me a package yesterday! 1# of CFE PISTOL- going to use this in the Henry. This may help this bore. Anyone see any real benefit with CFE PISTOL?

I use CFE223 in my AR10, very accurate but haven't had a fouling issue... UPS left me 8# of this too!

I haven't tried it yet. The only jacketed stuff I shoot outta handguns is my SD load... of which I've only shot a small handful, all loaded before CFE Pistol came out. But, the CFE223 in my ARs has been wonderful. Hope the CFE Pistol lives up to my new heightened expectations.

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:59 pm

Oh and here are my girls!

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:22 am

Well, that's odd! I had posted prior to the last pic, guess I didn't hit the SUBMIT button...

Loaded some CFE PISTOL loads, 5 with Sierra 210, 5 with Nosler 210.

Has anyone tried HAWK bullets? I recently revisited their site, they have some good looking stuff. Might try their 225 HP for my Bambi hunting load.