The Winchester Yellow Boy Rides Again

[Pete44ru]

.

Winchester is now offering a new Model 1866 Yellow Boy with Ulrich-style engraving for their 150th Anniversary.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/ ... -1866.html







However, both the blurb and the specs/details fail to ID the chambering/caliber (.45 Colt ? .44-40 ?).

Winchester Model 1866 150th Commemorative High Grade Lever Action Rifle -Only a limited number will ever be made -- all in commemoration of the 150th Anniversary of the founding of Winchester Repeating Arms.
Every feature, every component, every detail testifies of the importance this gun will have in the history of Winchester, just like the originals did.
This remarkable rifle starts with a custom grade V/VI walnut straight grip stock with a satin oil finish that’s velvet smooth to the touch.
Features a classic rifle-style forearm with engraved forearm cap for the legendary look and feel of the original Model 1866.
One of the crowning embellishments is the custom 150th Anniversary engraving on the polished brass receiver, lifter, lever, buttplate and forearm cap -- all done in the classic Ulrich style, including the Winchester Horse & Rider, and the WRA trademark scroll.



I'm wondering if Winchester's sourcing this model from Uberti, or from Miroku - does anyone know for sure ?



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[1894cfan]

44-40 for $3330!

[Leverluver]

I'd seen mention of it before. Pretty sure it is Miroku.

[Blaine]

44-40 and $3330!

Maybe it's the Auld Phart in me, but this new-fangled CNC-ish engraving...every one perfect as a picture, and identical...just does not appeal to me.

[jdad]

44-40 and $3330!

Maybe it's the Auld Phart in me, but this new-fangled CNC-ish engraving...every one perfect as a picture, and identical...just does not appeal to me.

It's better than new-fangled CNC-ish engraving. It's HIGH_TECH laser engraving.

[Griff]

.I'm wondering if Winchester's sourcing this model from Uberti, or from Miroku - does anyone know for sure ?

Miroku and .44-40. I think the '73 version is better lookin'!

[Old Savage]

+1

[kaschi]

It would have been a nice touch if they had made it $4440 to keep the numbers easy to remember….. Man, that's a lot of money. But I will bet that no frills standard rifles and carbines will follow with more reasonable pricing.

[Malamute]

Beautiful rifle, Id love to have one, or one of the high grade 73's.

I also believe they are Miroku made.

[DPris]

They are Miroku.
Denis

[Rube Burrows]

Love that Henry offers an 1860 and now Winchester offering the 73 and 66 again also. Its nice to be able to purchase one of these that bear the original makers name......however; I just wish the prices would compete with Uberti instead of beign 2+ times more.

[Malamute]

The standard grade Winchester/Miroku 73s are close to the cost of a Uberti 73. They also offer a couple slightly upgraded versions with color case hardening and nice grade wood.

The Henry Henry isn't made by the same named or original company. The original Henry's were made by the New Haven Arms Company, which was partly owned by a guy named Oliver Winchester, and the next model that came out in 1866 was called an "improved Henry", but the company name was changed at that point to The Winchester Repeating Arms Company, and the gun was eventually designated the 1866 model Winchester.

I understand that there was a very short term change to Henry Repeating Arms before the switch to Winchesater, but theres no connection in any way shape or form to the Henry Arms Company of today. They have simply adopted a name and implied some historical context for their company. They make fine guns in their own right, and they fill a market niche, but their implied historicity annoys me for its deceptiveness about the implied relation to the historic gun that's called Henry.

[Pete44ru]

The Henry Henry isn't made by the same named or original company. The original Henry's were made by the New Haven Arms Company, which was partly owned by a guy named Oliver Winchester, and the next model that came out in 1866 was called an "improved Henry", but the company name was changed at that point to The Winchester Repeating Arms Company, and the gun was eventually designated the 1866 model Winchester.

I understand that there was a very short term change to Henry Repeating Arms before the switch to Winchesater, but theres no connection in any way shape or form to the Henry Arms Company of today.

They have simply adopted a name and implied some historical context for their company.

Their implied historicity annoys me for its deceptiveness about the implied relation to the historic gun that's called Henry.

I, if not Mr. Imperato, take issue with your representation/slurring of the current Henry Repeating Arms Co as being deceptive.

Louis Imperato was working at the 1911-founded Jovino's Gunshop in Manhattan, NY, when in 1993 he seized the opportunity to use his manufacturing license to produce black-powder revolvers and established a factory in Brooklyn.

There doesn't have to be a physical/family connection to legally represent an entirely-owned brand name.


In 1996, Mr. Imperato legally acquired the rights to the historical name "Henry Repeating Arms", a defunct brand name under which had previously produced Benjamin Tyler Henry's revolutionary 1860 lever-action rifle.



HRA carries a tribute to Benjamin Tyler Henry on their website: https://www.henryrifles.com/henry-history/

The HRA company began producing .22 caliber lever, pump & bolt action rifles, and in 2013 the company announced production of a replica of the original 1860 Henry rifle, with a traditional brass receiver but modern steel barrel and internals, and chambered in .44-40 Winchester rather than the original obsolete .44 Henry rimfire.

The current HRA represents the first American production of a Henry style replica rifle in 150 years - and unlike today's Winchester & Browning companies, does not have their products produced outside the US (an excellent distinction IMHO).


.

[DPris]

There were no rights to the "Henry Repeating Arms Company" to be acquired.
Anybody coulda grabbed & run with it.
The Imperatos did.
Denis

[Malamute]

The Henry Henry isn't made by the same named or original company. The original Henry's were made by the New Haven Arms Company, which was partly owned by a guy named Oliver Winchester, and the next model that came out in 1866 was called an "improved Henry", but the company name was changed at that point to The Winchester Repeating Arms Company, and the gun was eventually designated the 1866 model Winchester.

I understand that there was a very short term change to Henry Repeating Arms before the switch to Winchesater, but theres no connection in any way shape or form to the Henry Arms Company of today.

They have simply adopted a name and implied some historical context for their company.

Their implied historicity annoys me for its deceptiveness about the implied relation to the historic gun that's called Henry.

I, if not Mr. Imperato, take issue with your representation/slurring of the current Henry Repeating Arms Co as being deceptive.

Louis Imperato was working at the 1911-founded Jovino's Gunshop in Manhattan, NY, when in 1993 he seized the opportunity to use his manufacturing license to produce black-powder revolvers and established a factory in Brooklyn.

There doesn't have to be a physical/family connection to legally represent an entirely-owned brand name.


In 1996, Mr. Imperato legally acquired the rights to the historical name "Henry Repeating Arms", a defunct brand name under which had previously produced Benjamin Tyler Henry's revolutionary 1860 lever-action rifle.



HRA carries a tribute to Benjamin Tyler Henry on their website: https://www.henryrifles.com/henry-history/

The HRA company began producing .22 caliber lever, pump & bolt action rifles, and in 2013 the company announced production of a replica of the original 1860 Henry rifle, with a traditional brass receiver but modern steel barrel and internals, and chambered in .44-40 Winchester rather than the original obsolete .44 Henry rimfire.

The current HRA represents the first American production of a Henry style replica rifle in 150 years - and unlike today's Winchester & Browning companies, does not have their products produced outside the US (an excellent distinction IMHO).


.

Ive read the information and tribute to Benjamin Tyler Henry on their website. I, and many others, feel its somewhat deceptive to give a "historical account" of the "Henry" discussing the original rifle made by the New haven Arms Company and nicknamed Henry after one of the guys that invented it, then naming their modern company Henry and seemingly imply theres some sort of connection to the original rifles and company when all they did was pick a name out of the air basically, with no other connection whatsoever to the original company. Many people are left believing there is some historical connection based on their information. There isnt, other than taking up a name pretty much out of thin air and building guns.

Like I said, their guns are fine for what they are, well made and all, filling a non-historic lever action niche until they decided to build an 1860 Henry type rifle to capitalize on the name. Its cool to have that name on the gun, but few if any of the originals were marked Henry Repeating Arms. It was a very short term name for the company before being changed to the Winchester Repeating Arms Company.

[Rube Burrows]

The Henry Henry isn't made by the same named or original company. The original Henry's were made by the New Haven Arms Company, which was partly owned by a guy named Oliver Winchester, and the next model that came out in 1866 was called an "improved Henry", but the company name was changed at that point to The Winchester Repeating Arms Company, and the gun was eventually designated the 1866 model Winchester.

I understand that there was a very short term change to Henry Repeating Arms before the switch to Winchesater, but theres no connection in any way shape or form to the Henry Arms Company of today.

They have simply adopted a name and implied some historical context for their company.

Their implied historicity annoys me for its deceptiveness about the implied relation to the historic gun that's called Henry.

I, if not Mr. Imperato, take issue with your representation/slurring of the current Henry Repeating Arms Co as being deceptive.

Louis Imperato was working at the 1911-founded Jovino's Gunshop in Manhattan, NY, when in 1993 he seized the opportunity to use his manufacturing license to produce black-powder revolvers and established a factory in Brooklyn.

There doesn't have to be a physical/family connection to legally represent an entirely-owned brand name.


In 1996, Mr. Imperato legally acquired the rights to the historical name "Henry Repeating Arms", a defunct brand name under which had previously produced Benjamin Tyler Henry's revolutionary 1860 lever-action rifle.



HRA carries a tribute to Benjamin Tyler Henry on their website: https://www.henryrifles.com/henry-history/

The HRA company began producing .22 caliber lever, pump & bolt action rifles, and in 2013 the company announced production of a replica of the original 1860 Henry rifle, with a traditional brass receiver but modern steel barrel and internals, and chambered in .44-40 Winchester rather than the original obsolete .44 Henry rimfire.

The current HRA represents the first American production of a Henry style replica rifle in 150 years - and unlike today's Winchester & Browning companies, does not have their products produced outside the US (an excellent distinction IMHO).


.

Very well said. I have talked to Mr. Imperato and he was nothing short of Awesome. For him to take the time out of his busy sched. to talk to me about the 1860 Henry several years before they started producing them again was pretty neat.

[Sixgun]

If anything, Mr. Imperato is pretty much like Bill Ruger. They both entered a business that was already pretty much established by big money and made their manufacturing processes successful with quality arms.

Although I don't own any of these Henry Repeating Arms guns, I see them all the time at silhouette matches and there is one thing I have yet to be asked by fellow shooters.........."Hey 6, can you fix my jammed gun?" .......like I have been asked to do with countless later production Marlins and Winchesters.

My hat is off to Mr. imperator for making a great gun and especially one that's 100% made in U.S.A.------6

[Malamute]

If anything, Mr. Imperato is pretty much like Bill Ruger. They both entered a business that was already pretty much established by big money and made their manufacturing processes successful with quality arms.

Although I don't own any of these Henry Repeating Arms guns, I see them all the time at silhouette matches and there is one thing I have yet to be asked by fellow shooters.........."Hey 6, can you fix my jammed gun?" .......like I have been asked to do with countless later production Marlins and Winchesters.

My hat is off to Mr. imperator for making a great gun and especially one that's 100% made in U.S.A.------6

And I think we can all agree to that!

I am interested to see how the production Henry long range rifles work out.

[claybob86]

.I'm wondering if Winchester's sourcing this model from Uberti, or from Miroku - does anyone know for sure ?

Miroku and .44-40. I think the '73 version is better lookin'!

Me too!

[Griff]

If anything, Mr. Imperato is pretty much like Bill Ruger. They both entered a business that was already pretty much established by big money and made their manufacturing processes successful with quality arms.

Although I don't own any of these Henry Repeating Arms guns, I see them all the time at silhouette matches and there is one thing I have yet to be asked by fellow shooters.........."Hey 6, can you fix my jammed gun?" .......like I have been asked to do with countless later production Marlins and Winchesters.

My hat is off to Mr. imperator for making a great gun and especially one that's 100% made in U.S.A.------6

If anything, Mr. Imperato is living the American Dream. But his marketing ploys are like dreamland... the American consumer will believe any lie, look at politics for the proof of that. There never was a Henry Arms Co... When New Haven Arms went belly-up, good ol' Ollie Winchester was there to snap up the pieces... And let's not confuse Tony Imperato with his Dad, Louis... it was he, as the head of IVER JOHNSON ARMS, who produced the Colt "Signature Series", and a host of other guns. Sure Tony worked there, but that firm dissolved.

Their success is built on billing their 100% USA produced copy of a GERMAN rifle. Yes, they say they "acquired" the rights to the Henry Repeating Arms Co...implying somehow that there were some to acquire... But, since it didn't exist, all they had to do was go down to the Courthouse and file corporate papers in that name... But, it sounds better than saying they bought the rights to ERMA..., the defunct German firm that produced that levergun before HRA came along. It's like their billing of the "BIG BOY" as being legal for SASS use when, in fact, it wasn't, since it's not copy of a pre-1900 design. I could chaulk that up to ignorance...

American marketing, half truths, withholding facts, and bold lies... And people buy it up.

[DPris]

Griff, Griff, Griff.

Man, you GOTTA stop bottling all your feelings up inside.
It ain't good for your blood pressure or your digestion & sooner or later it'll catch up to you.

LET IT ALL OUT!
Speak your mind.
Express your true feelings.
Relieve the pressure!

You'll feel better if you do.
Denis

[marlinman93]

As long as we're pointing fingers, we should not forget why Oliver Winchester put Henry's name on the first guns anyway! He did not want the Winchester name on a gun he wasn't sure would be a success! It was only after it proved to be a huge success that Winchester renamed the company's guns after himself.
I see very little to admire about Winchester's tactics back then. He was a business man, and a very savvy one. He made Winchesters a huge success, but it was those who worked for him, or sold him patents that made the company. Winchester spent a lifetime buying up the competition, and closing them down. Had it not been for others like Marcellus Hartley, he would have also closed down Remington, and the oldest production gun maker in the USA would have been but a footnote in firearms history! Sadly many other great gun makers didn't get saved from the Winchester axe.

[Sixgun]

Marlinman,
Thanks for saving me a mess of typing. I was getting ready to say that....on how Winchester bought up other patents.

In the world of Capitalism, if you ain't shrewd, you ain't gonna make it. People always wonder why the U.S.A. is the greatest. Capitalism....let the brightest .......and shrewdest minds prevail"!

Everyone here owes their lifestyle to Capitalism as I do not see anyone beating a path to get into Mexico or any of the raghead nations.---- ------6

[marlinman93]

You're right Sixgun! Many of the patents Winchester paid good money for were never produced. He simply bought them to stop the competition from getting their hands on them. Can you imagine a firearm inventor back then being excited too have Winchester purchase his patent; only to never see it go into production! Chances are he bought them cheap, with a promise of so much per gun when Winchester built them! Then never paid off on the so much per gun part!

[Griff]

Ollie weren't no saint. I believe I read somewhere that Winchester (after Oliver was dead), bought up 46 of JMB's patents... but only produced what ??? 7? 1885, 1886, 1887, 1892, 1894, 1895, & 1897. The others Winchester bought the whole company, but JMB was the most prolific designer of his time, (still?). Their fallin' out was over the Auto shotgun that JMB designed... went on to be produced by FN, Remington and a couple of others... Didn't Colt buy every handgun design that JMB came up after FN successfully marketed his first in Europe!

[marlinman93]

That falling out with Browning and Winchester over the shotgun patent was based on Browning's insistence on royalties. Winchester had always paid Browning a flat price for his designs, but Browning wanted a piece of the action, and the Winchester Co. said no. So Browning walked, and that ended a very successful partnership between the two! Winchester was hurt far more by the parting than Browning was!

[Griff]

That falling out with Browning and Winchester over the shotgun patent was based on Browning's insistence on royalties. Winchester had always paid Browning a flat price for his designs, but Browning wanted a piece of the action, and the Winchester Co. said no. So Browning walked, and that ended a very successful partnership between the two! Winchester was hurt far more by the parting than Browning was!

Absolutely...

[DPris]

Oliver Winchester died in 1880, so I doubt he himself can be too vilified for the practice of buying up designs & not using 'em.
He was out of the picture by the time John Moses was building up sales to the company.
Denis

[Griff]

Oliver Winchester died in 1880, so I doubt he himself can be too vilified for the practice of buying up designs & not using 'em.
He was out of the picture by the time John Moses was building up sales to the company.
Denis

Yep, but I couldn't remember his successor's name...

[DPris]

Bennett.
Denis

[Griff]

Bennett.
Denis

I went to school with a guy named Bennett, and I could picture him, but couldn't remember his name... Word association only works if you remember the clues...

[marlinman93]

TG Bennett took over after Winchester's son died of tuberculosis just four months after Oliver Winchester's death. Bennett was Winchester right hand man, and probably better suited to take over than his son anyway.
The relationship with Browning started not long after Winchester's death. Browning patented the 1885 in 1879, and supposedly it was Bennett who traveled to Ogden to work the deal with Browning to purchase the patent, all 125 guns, and parts. His initial trip was said to be a legal trip to tell Browning brothers to stop copying the Winchester reloading tools, and confiscate any he found.
After buying all 125 guns, and telling Browning to stop copying their tools, Bennett left. Supposedly without all the parts, as Browning again began building his version of the single shot, and Bennett later had to telegraph Browning again, and tell him to cease production. Since it took so long for Winchester to get the gun into production, I think Browning figured why not continue in the meantime!

[Griff]

TG Bennett took over after Winchester's son died of tuberculosis just four months after Oliver Winchester's death. Bennett was Winchester right hand man, and probably better suited to take over than his son anyway.
The relationship with Browning started not long after Winchester's death. Browning patented the 1885 in 1879, and supposedly it was Bennett who traveled to Ogden to work the deal with Browning to purchase the patent, all 125 guns, and parts. His initial trip was said to be a legal trip to tell Browning brothers to stop copying the Winchester reloading tools, and confiscate any he found.
After buying all 125 guns, and telling Browning to stop copying their tools, Bennett left. Supposedly without all the parts, as Browning again began building his version of the single shot, and Bennett later had to telegraph Browning again, and tell him to cease production. Since it took so long for Winchester to get the gun into production, I think Browning figured why not continue in the meantime!

Different spin than the Browning family tells in their book.

[marlinman93]

quote]Different spin than the Browning family tells in their book.

I bet it is! I'd expect the truth is somewhere in between!