Lead bullets in 357 mag rifle.

[Grandpa Ron]

I am on the hunt for a 357 mag lever gun. I shoot light handgun loads at about 800 ft/sec. I am assuming that my handgun loads will work in a lever gun without leading up the bore etc.

I never needed the advantages of jacketed bullet expansion and killing power to punch holes in paper.

I was curious what other 357 shooters use.

[Tycer]

http://leverguns.com/articles/paco/357_ ... rature.htm
http://leverguns.com/articles/taylor/357magnum.htm
http://leverguns.com/articles/357colorado.htm
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/fryxe ... n_1894.htm
http://www.sixguns.com/crew/skeeters_bullets.htm

You are gonna love this adventure!

[Old Ironsights]

I generally shoot heavy magnum handloads in my Rossi, but have been known to load up some dead soft 158gr HPs moving at subsonic speeds for silent in town depredation work.

A 158 at 700 hits a 'coon harder than any .22 ever can and does it with less (NO) noise.

Never had any problems with leading when shooting catsneeze loads either.

Hard cast/gascheck for magnums, dead soft/pure lead for subsonic catsneeze.

Works for me.

[1894cfan]

Lyman #2 lead out of either Lee 158wfn bullets or same with Lyman 158wfn with 13.5gr 2400. Light loads with 3.0gr either bullseye or 231. No leading either way. YMMV HTH

P.S. No leading in either handgun or 1894c with either load with Lyman #2 lead alloy. BH 15.

[claybob86]

This is interesting. My experience has been that cast bullets leave lead in the bore and jacketed bullets leave copper in the bore. Period. I don't shoot cast bullets in centerfire rifles because it's hard enough dealing with the lead in pistol barrels. I don't need that in my rifle barrels. I prefer to not spend more time cleaning than shooting.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

This is interesting. My experience has been that cast bullets leave lead in the bore and jacketed bullets leave copper in the bore. Period. I don't shoot cast bullets in centerfire rifles because it's hard enough dealing with the lead in pistol barrels. I don't need that in my rifle barrels. I prefer to not spend more time cleaning than shooting.

In the overall picture that is true. But, there is more to it. It's a matter of degree. Lead that is too soft or too small for the bore is going to leave lead. Soft lead melt at the rear of the bullet. Hard lead will too if it doesn't fill the bore but it's mainly from hot gases escaping along the sides. Generally if you are pushing any lead beyond 1200 FPS or so it is going to lead some. Really hard cast and gas checks decease the leading and allow faster loads.
As for removing lead I find it easier than removing copper. Some folks use the Lewis lead removers but I get the same results using Bronze wool (from marine paint supplier)wrapped tight fitting around an old bore brush. That and some bore cleaner for lube and it come right out. May take a trip or two but so does copper.

I am on the hunt for a 357 mag lever gun. I shoot light handgun loads at about 800 ft/sec. I am assuming that my handgun loads will work in a lever gun without leading up the bore etc.

I never needed the advantages of jacketed bullet expansion and killing power to punch holes in paper.

I was curious what other 357 shooters use.

Shooting them sure, no problem. Feeding them maybe yes, maybe no.
The thing to keep in mind, all leveraction, pump action and semi-auto guns (long guns or handguns) are ammo length and bullet shape sensitive. Some more than other. For instance, you don't think about it much if you are dealing with a rifle cal. like 3006, 308 or 223 and even 30-30.Those are all bottleneck calibers and bottlenecks always feed better than straightwall ammo, whether it is a rifle cal or a pistol cal. That's because you have a small diameter bullet going into a really big hole by comparison, the bottleneck chamber being much like a funnel. The original pistol cal leverguns of the day were designed to work with bottleneck ammo in the 1.5" to 1.6" OAL with round nose flat point bullets. Ammo like 44-40, 38-40, 32-20 and 25-20.
These modern straight wall ammo leverguns are a lot like semi-auto handguns. There’s just some ammo they aren’t going to work well with.
What that means is rifles like the 92's and 94's may not work well with really long 357’s. (they can hang up and won't come up at all or They tend to hit the top inside of the chamber before they make the turn into the chamber)
As for the 38’s. The most common problem with the shorter 38's is the gun will throw out live rounds with the empty's. Or, stovepipe them. This is because the shorter 38 coming on to the carrier from the tube can bounce forward enough that the rim is too close to the rim slots in the guides and when you lever it fast the carrier just catapults them up or out with the empty.
or bullet shapes other than the round nosed flat point profile they were designed for. Bullet shapes like TC's and SWC can be problematic.
For 38’s, this is what I have found to work best. A 158gr elongated round nose flat point seated above the crimp groove and just crimped into the side of the bullet just above the lube groove.




For years there were commercial reloaders that offered CAS ammo and have offered 1 1/5" long loaded Cowboy leveraction 38's.
For years I directed my rifle customer to "T" ammo for his 1.5" cowboy 38's. But, Roy retired so I was recommending Ammo Direct.
Well, they are out of business at least temporarily. (had a fire I believe)
Here is the new source.

Contact
CUSTOM AMMO & RELOADING SERVICES,LLC
817-326-3855
Email; landjb7@charter.net

Larry Benningfield
3110 Marble Court
Granbury, Tx 76049.

they sell this ammo and will also reload your brass.

As for 357mag, the best feeding I’ve found is the Hornady 357 Mag 140 gr FTX® LEVERevolution.

[Griff]

With only two .357 leverguns I certainly can't speak with the authority of someone that's seen thousands of 'em... but my two Rossi .38/.357 carbines work fine with ammo loaded to std. .38Spl. OAL. They'll also feed and digest .357 length ammo. I exclusively shot 158 grain round nose seated in the crimp groove. I've recently switched to plinkin' with a Truncated Cone in those same 38 Spl cases. I ain't shootin' at lightning fast speeds like the cowboy shooters, but, for grins & giggles shootin' against a buddy at the range, they seem to work fine.

The 158 RN that I use is pictured at the upper left:

This pic is before I got those TCs, and have only loaded a dozen or so... and I can't remember what weight I got them in... Bein' a .45Colt kinda guy, the .38s aren't thought of very often...

[crs]

The barrel twist has something to do with what shoots well in a rifle.
For example, my Winchester 1892 .357 Mag has a Douglas barrel that shoots high velocity ammo well, but anything slower than a fast .38 special such as Super Vel 110 is too slow and will keyhole at 25 yards. Usually lead bullets loads fast enough to stabilize would badly lead up this barrel.
So, I shoot only high velocity jacketed bullets - even 180 grain Buffalo Bore barely stabilize enough for hunting purposes.
However, the rifle is extremely accurate with hot loads with jacketed bullets from 110, 125, 140, and 158 grains.

[mikld]

Barrel leading isn't a fore gon conclusion with lead bullets. I get minimal (often no) leading in any firearm that I load/shoot lead bullets in (revolver, pistol, hand gun cartridges in rifles, and bottle necked rifle ammo). When the bullets are of the correct alloy and fit the gun, leading does not happen...

[retmech]

Lead bullets sized right and with a decent lube do not lead a barrel. I do not clean the barrels on my Rossi 92's, Ruger GP .357, or my K-38. There is no lead in them and the the bullet lube leaves a coating that prevents rust. The cylinders and actions require occasional cleaning but that's it. My normal loadings for plain base bullets in the .357 Rossi's are in the 1200-1400 fps area and accuracy@100yds is in the 3 moa range. Lead bullets with gas checks will easily get you into the 1600-1800 fps range with no leading and good accuracy. Size matters(so does lube). Spend some time learning about cast bullets, most of what you hear in gunshops and gun shows is BS.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

With only two .357 leverguns I certainly can't speak with the authority of someone that's seen thousands of 'em... but my two Rossi .38/.357 carbines work fine with ammo loaded to std. .38Spl. OAL. They'll also feed and digest .357 length ammo. I exclusively shot 158 grain round nose seated in the crimp groove. I've recently switched to plinkin' with a Truncated Cone in those same 38 Spl cases. I ain't shootin' at lightning fast speeds like the cowboy shooters, but, for grins & giggles shootin' against a buddy at the range, they seem to work fine.

....................

Yep, just like semi auto pistols, some seem to work with everything but then the next same make gun maybe not. I've had consecutive numbered Rossi 92's here where one would run on everything and the other not so much. I have an old InterArms imported Rossi that will even run empty brass!!!

As for running at speed what I like to tell my CAS customers is think of it like you would a race car. Once you get gun up and running the next step is to test with different fuels to see what it runs best on.

[Griff]

Once you get gun up and running the next step is to test with different fuels to see what it runs best on.

Used a few samples of several different bullets before I found one that is to stick to... I think I got lucky with the TC...

[C. Cash]

in my 356 Winchester I shoot hard cast lead, sized .359 at what should be 2000-2100 fps with no problems. To clean, I break out the standard bronze bore brush and give it about 20 passes, then wet/dry. It's the same as cleaning up my 22's after a day of plinking. Beartooth and Montana Bullet Works(now closed?) have worked well for me. The Buffalo Bore 180's or similar take a 357 Mag. to a new level of power/performance, but I only have used them in a handgun. They would make dandy hog/deer loads, methinks, especially in a rifle.

[Old Ironsights]

in my 356 Winchester I shoot hard cast lead, sized .359 at what should be 2000-2100 fps with no problems. To clean, I break out the standard bronze bore brush and give it about 20 passes, then wet/dry. It's the same as cleaning up my 22's after a day of plinking. Beartooth and Montana Bullet Works(now closed?) have worked well for me. The Buffalo Bore 180's or similar take a 357 Mag. to a new level of power/performance, but I only have used them in a handgun. They would make dandy hog/deer loads, methinks, especially in a rifle.

You've seen my post about what the BB 180 will do to a running whitetail at 110yds haven't you?

Even at 110y that 180 solid is moving fast/hard enough to detonate the shoulder and ruin a front quarter.
Here's the ranged shot:

Here's what happened:

Let's call it a "one shot stop" and leave it at that...

[C. Cash]

Nice going OI! Seems it did the job nicely. Bigsky reported complete penetration from end to end on a mountain lion. I feel pretty confidant that a heavy cast 357ish bullet will get the job done on anything I am likely to encounter in my lifetime.

[J35]

I have a dozen molds that I cast bullets from for a Win. 94 .357 mag. rifle.

They go from 130 gr to 225 gr.

I have found good loads for all except a 148 gr WC . The 358495.

The best paper puncher is the old 158gr PB 357443, who would'a thunk it.

The best GC bullet out of the bunch is the original 180 LBT. I bought the mold new 26 years ago.

I bought the rifle new and have never fired a jacketed round.

200 cast rds or ten, 4 patches with Ed's Red and it is clean, been that way since day 1.





----------J