Same Cast Bullet for Both 405 Win. and 40-82 WCF?

[southfork]

I recently snagged a previously-owned, custom, 2-cavity bullet mold that the prior mold owner used to cast gas-checked, 300 grain, bullets for his 1895 Winchester lever action rifle. He said it worked very well in his Japanese-made 1895 lever action. I am hoping to use the bullets that I cast with this mold in not only my own 1895 405 Japchester, but also a 1886 Winchester in 40-82 (with appropriate sizing). The overall length of the cartridges - when these bullets are crimped in the bullet crimp groove of new Jamison 40-82 WCF brass - exceeds the recommended OAL length for 40-82 WCF. They are certainly too long to function in the 1886 action.

I have thought about the possibility of trimming back the new 40-82 brass a little so that when crimped at the bullet crimp groove, the OAL length is right. I realize that setting the bullet further back might effect the pressure a little. I got the idea from a fellow who loads cast bullets for his 32-40 Model 94 using re-sized 30-30 brass. He had found that the crimp groove on his 30 cal. cast bullets was too far back, but that with the shorter 30-30 brass, the 32-40 cartridge OAL was right and everything functioned well. Any thoughts?

[Griff]

The 1886 was chambered for the 40-82, so the crimp groove must be back a ways. The 40-72 along with the .405 were chambered in the 1895 action. IIRC, the 40-72 & -82 used a .406 bullet dia., no SAAMI spec exists that I could find online. The SAAMI spec for the .405 shows a .412" groove dia.

Depending on what diameter the mold throws, it might be possible use slugs 'as cast' for the .405 and sized appropriately for the .40-82. Googling around might turn up more info. Buffalo Arms shows .406" for their .40-82 ammo. I dislike trimming brass, but especially when the end result is that brass is then regulated to use with one bullet. If the bullets are soft enough, just crimp into the shank at a point when you get a correct OAL.

[1894cfan]

I dislike trimming bras,

[Griff]

I dislike trimming bras,

Well, duh!

[geobru]

Thing I'd be worried about is if the bullet is too long and won't stabilize.
Mike Venturino reported that he shot a 300 grain bullet in an 86 in 40-82 in an article he wrote, so it might work.
I tried a 325 grain in my 40-82 that tumbled.
If you are shooting < 1800 fps in an 86 with a 1:28 twist rate, the longest bullet that will stabilize is 0.9" according to the Greenhill formula. If it is less than that it should work.
I think I'd load a few rounds with the full length brass, crimped so the OAL is correct and shoot them to see if the bullet stabilizes before shortening the brass.
YMMV!

[2520WHV]

You could also shorten the bullet's nose some for the .40-82....... You will lighten the bullet and would win both ways then by using the crimp groove and having the slower .40-82 twist happier.

You will probably be sizing the bullet pretty heavily for the .40-82...... At least .006" and maybe a little more.

2520WHV

[Sixgun]

I've been doing that for 20 years and doing what your buddy is doing for 40.

I use a 300 gr. Semi-spitzer g.c NEI mould that's designed for the 405 and incrementantly size it down (.410 to 408.).....push it with 23.5 gr of 5744....1400+....this is out of an original Hi-Wall single shot. I'm assuming your mould is for the correct Fp. Do what you have to do to the brass to make it work...inside neck ream......trim....whatever......your most likely are going to have to inside neck ream and trim as most 40-82 and 40-65 chambers will not accept a .408 bullet. Shortening the brass .100 will almost always solve the problem with that issue.......where there's no brass, there's more room for lead.

Tightness in chambers is almost always at the front of the neck.....the first .125-.200 or so.

Geobro is correct on bullet length. I'm really surprised my 300 gr. ssp spins true with the 1-28 twist. I do notice that accuracy is supreme out to 300 meters and only so-so past that.....as it slows, it wobbles.

I use 30-30 brass for 219 Zipper, 30-30, 32 Spl., 32-40, and 38-55. Just seat your bullets accordingly using correct oal with the 32-40 and the 38-55. Low pressures with these cartridges so unless your trying to make a magnum out of one of these cartridges don't worry about the length.

I hear "this and that" on slightly shorter brass and unlike a lot of people, I don't shoot an occasional box or two of ammo but thousands out of prime Winchesters and Marlins and I have yet to detect any chamber erosion or damage in any way.

Happy shooting and welcome to the world of using smokeless in black powder era arms. ------6


I have no idea why I even bother spending time and energy to answer questions.

[southfork]

Thanks for the input/help guys!