Earl!!! .357 Blue Dot load.

[JerryB]

Earl, I know you load a lot of Dot powder. Tell me about 10 grains of Blue Dot with a 158 grain swc in a Rossi 20 inch .357, what Kind of fps would you get? My grandson in Texas loaded these
and I put a few in the carbine and put it by the back door, our last three day deer season opens the day after Christmas.

[earlmck]

Jerry, I've been using Green Dot and Red Dot for a number of light (maybe I should say "low velocity") loads, but haven't used Blue Dot in many years. For years Blue Dot was my powder for full-power 357 magnum loads and I used 12.5 grains of it with a 158 grain cast bullet in a Colt revolver. Velocity according to my notes was about 1350 fps from the 6" revolver barrel. According to QuickLoad that load exceeds SAAMI max by a ways, but also says I'd get 1450 fps from it. I wonder if Blue Dot isn't one of those powders that is a little faster now than it used to be (like 2400 new vs. old).

My old Speer book shows Blue Dot with the 158 grain SoftPoint, 10 grains as a starting load for a bit over 1400 fps velocity from a rifle. QuickLoad says that 10 grains should give a bit over 1500 fps and 22K psi. Either way, certainly a mild load but maybe just about right for a bullet intended for revolver velocities. That Speer book is an old one, so QL might be closer to right in the present-day if the powder has changed some over the years.

Blue Dot didn't fall out of favor with me -- I just stumbled into a deal whereby I ended up with several cases of a surplus powder labeled "H108" which is, as you might guess, just a bit faster powder than H110. And I have used almost nothing else for magnum pistol loads ever since -- sitting here with a lifetime supply of the stuff.

[BAGTIC]

I have been using12 grains of BD with jacketed bullets for at least 40 years in M92 clones and a Colt Mk III 6 inch. with good results. I seldom load any ammo to max pressure. According to QL most of my loads in all calibers are about 90% of SAAMI or less, some considerably less.

[Blaine]

I use BD in .357, and .44 mag. A stout Lee Factory Crimp will help it burn much better, and evenly.
I was using some 160gr hardcast.

[JerryB]

Earl, as you always do you came through with just what I needed to know. Like I said I put some in my Rossi 92 and set it by the back door just in case a deer shows up, reckon they will do the job.

Blaine and Bagtic thanks for your help too.

[Scrateshooter]

I bought that pound of Blue Dot in 2014 when you jumped on pistol powder like a WWII Marine on a grenade.

I was getting about 1300 fps out of a 6" S&W 27 with that 10gr of Blue Dot and a 158gr SWC from Slash K in Tucson, AZ.



Grandpa, I heard these deer now have titanium skin and you might need to get a 350 Tactical Max Mag loaded with depleted uranium missile to get the smallest of deer.

[JohndeFresno]

From a while ago; I can't remember which of my manuals dropped Blue Dot from some loadings in their next edition, but at least one major powder or bullet manufacturer did, to the best of my memory. There is this, from my archives:

ATK Commercial Products
900 Ehlen Drive Anoka, MN 55303
www.atk.com

July 25, 2008

Dear Functional Wholesaler:

Please distribute this letter to all of your customers immediately with instructions for them to do the following:

• Post this letter in a highly visible area of their establishment
• Distribute to their customers as soon as possible

Alliant Powder Blue Dot® Product Safety Notice

Alliant Powder® periodically reviews and tests their published reloading data to verify that recommended recipes have not changed over time.
During the latest review Alliant Powder discovered that Alliant Powder’s Blue Dot® should not be used in the following applications:

• Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 357 Magnum load using the 125 grain projectile (Blue Dot® recipes with heavier bullet weights as specified in Alliant Powders Reloading Guide are acceptable for use).
• Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 41 Magnum cartridge (all bullet weights).

Use of Blue Dot® in the above cases may cause a high pressure situation that could cause property damage and serious personal injury.

We apologize for any inconvenience that this may cause and appreciate your understanding and cooperation in this matter.
Thank you for your cooperation and if you have any questions or concerns please contact me at Dick.Quesenberry@ATK.com or call me at 540-639-8503.

Dick Quesenberry
Alliant Powder
Product Line Manager

(I'm not Dick Quesenberry, but the way, if that is confusing).

[Bill in Oregon]

That's an interesting warning. Only time I ever had a pressure issue in a sixgun was with Blue Dot handloads in a Blackhawk in .41 Magnum.

[BrianSH]

Way back in the late 80's I shot one of my best groups ever out of an 8" heavy bbl Dan Wesson, using 9.9 BD pushing a cast 160swc. Three shots clustered into 3/4 and one flyer opened up to 1 3/4".

I pcs'd shortly after and never did any load development after that. - Brian

[jnyork]

My very best, most accurate load by far for the .357 is the 10 grains of Blue Dot with the Berry's Plated 125 grain bullet out of my Rossi 1892 clone. I have shot several thousand rounds of this at metallic silhouette and never a problem. I use a Lee crimp die.

Wonder why the factory now tells me not to use this load?

[BrianSH]

My very best, most accurate load by far for the .357 is the 10 grains of Blue Dot with the Berry's Plated 125 grain bullet out of my Rossi 1892 clone. I have shot several thousand rounds of this at metallic silhouette and never a problem. I use a Lee crimp die.

Wonder why the factory now tells me not to use this load?

I test fired a Ruger 1911 loaded with 10 - 10.2 of BD under a 200gr swc. shot very accurately at 50 feet.
I once read something to the effect that "new" BD was made from cotton cellulouse, and the "old" BD used to be made from wood cellulose, and that caused a slight change in pressure curves.
- Brian

[Blaine]

Lawyers have a somewhat dampening effect on otherwise perfectly good, safe loads......

[earlmck]

From a while ago; I can't remember which of my manuals dropped Blue Dot from some loadings in their next edition, but at least one major powder or bullet manufacturer did, to the best of my memory. There is this, from my archives:

Much thanks for finding that, John. I hadn't paid attention to the Blue Dot saga: my first inkling of a change in formulation was when QL showed my old 12.5 grain load giving 5k psi over max pressure. My old Colt did not tolerate pressure like my present GP100 does and I would not have put thousands of rounds of excess pressure loads through it I believe. So looks to me like there may be quite a difference in "new" Blue Dot vs. the "old" Blue Dot. And maybe 2008 is the magic date for the change-over?

So Jerry -- how old is the Blue Dot you are now using for your 125 grain loads?

That is very interesting on Blue Dot not being recommended at all for 41 mag: I'm afraid I told one of my friends who just acquired one that Blue Dot would be one of my top choices for it. Fortunately for him I gave him a pound of W296 and he doesn't load a whole bunch, so I'll be able to pass along the warning before he even thinks of buying more powder.

I'm very puzzled how a powder that should be a very nice burn rate for it could be dis-recommended for all loads for a particular cartridge. That doesn't compute in my brain pan.

[jnyork]

So Jerry -- how old is the Blue Dot you are now using for your 125 grain loads?

.

October 14, 2014

This thing has me wondering if the new data is based on jacketed bullets, which would develop more pressure than cast bullet loads with the same amount of powder. The Berry's Plated are cast bullets with a tiny bit of plating on them .

[Nath]

I tried some bd in my 94 legacy. Forget how much.
I was impressed from the get go, that I do remember!
Good in hornet too, very carefully!!
Also in 30wcf x 150cast.

[JerryB]

Earl, like the younger Jerry said 2014 is when my grandson Scrateshooter bought his Blue Dot powder, and loaded up the loads that I have. Maybe cast bullets shoot ok with it, the ones he shot were in a S&W 27 6 inch with cast swc bullets. Thanks, a lot of good information here now.

[earlmck]

My very best, most accurate load by far for the .357 is the 10 grains of Blue Dot with the Berry's Plated 125 grain bullet out of my Rossi 1892 clone. I have shot several thousand rounds of this at metallic silhouette and never a problem. I use a Lee crimp die.

Wonder why the factory now tells me not to use this load?

Yeah, I think that Berry's Plated acts more like a cast bullet than a jacketed. And if I'd shot those thousands of a load with fine results I would figure on going for a few more thousand. That's pretty close to what you're thinking, isn't it Jerry

I can tell you that QuickLoad didn't detect any schizophrenia in the Blue Dot powder. It even looks as good in the 41 mag as I thought it should. It would, however, suggest lighter loads with the new Blue Dot than I was using with the old stuff.

[otteray]

The Blue Dot safety warning issue was discussed and somewhat concluded right here, back in late July, 2008.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8768&start=20

I'm still waiting patiently for the new data based on the new pressure testing methods, along with an unopened four lb. container of that powder, given to to me for free by another shooter.

[Paul105]

I have some old chronograph data (2004)

All 9.6gr Blue Dot
Fed 100 Primers
Mixed Cases
75 Deg F
4 Long Paces From Muzzle

18" Marlin 1894
158gr Meister LRNFP .... 1,480 fps
158gr Rem JHP ............ 1,405 fps

6.5" Ruger Blackhawk
158gr Meister LRNFP .... 1,270 fps
158gr Rem JHP ............ 1,225 fps

3" S&W M60
158gr Meister LRNFP .... 1,165 fps
158gr Rem JHP ............ 1,130 fps

1.9" S&W M360
158gr Meister LRNFP .... 1,020 fps
158gr Rem JHP ............ 950 fps

Paul

[blackhawk44]

My latest lot of Blue Dot is about 2 grains faster than the early Hercules version.

With 158gr LRNFP in Winchester .357 brass and WW primers

20" Rossi carbine-
8.2gr BD= 1417fps avg.

4 5/8" Ruger old model-
8.2gr BD= 1180fps avg.

(Lyman lists 8.2gBD= 888fps) Work up slowly!