big bears and 45-70

[Ji in Hawaii]

Heavy Hardcast Large Frontal Area (meplat) @ Medium Velocity

550 Grain Jae-Bok Young Crater


525 Grain Beartooth Pile-driver

[Pitchfire]

Not to bring this back up, but to add an addendum, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pJHjSfap7c

[Blaine]

Not to bring this back up, but to add an addendum, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pJHjSfap7c

I can attest that I watched a fellow Forumite do this test several years ago with similar results....I can't recall the exact bullet, but it was a 500, or 525 at about that same fps.....IIRC, I shot one of them out of my BFR, and recoil was not horrible. It was not bad at all from my Guide Gun....
Maybe "Grizz" will chime in...He might even have pictures....

[hfcable]

was the 458 Lott really developed because of the many failures and fatal encounters of the 458 Winchester?

I have no interest at all in Africa or African hunting.. wouldn't go even if it was free or even if you paid me ..but I would think i might remember seeing articles about that ? ? ....


I always thought it and many others were developed by the 'more is better / mine is bigger than yours' crowd.

[rodeo kid]

I'm with Joe, he is a gentleman of the highest order, those who opt to cast stones at him are sadly without my respect. Enough Said! God Bless.

[Les Staley]

Pitchfire, thanks for this resurrection. I just dug out two of my old 45-70s yesterday. Haven't done any shooting with them for about 15 years. Killed seven Black bears in Wyoming in the late 90s early 2000s, mostly with a Marlin 95 that could be easily scoped (bears don't usually move till last light). Two of these bears measured 6'8" tip of nose to tail. It could sit on its butt in your doorway and touch the head jamb with its nose. No experience with the Big ones..Mostly shot handloads with 300 gr jacketed bullets. None complained much, mostly bang flops. Quit hunting bear, figured I had enough rugs and such, sold the Marlin. Still have a Shilo Hartford model, a Browning 85 traditional hunter, and a couple others that will take care of my daylight shooting. Today tried a new gas checked cast 395 gr over 14 gr of Trailboss. Shoots lights out. Deer season starts Sat. here in North Idaho..

[Griff]

Fun to reread this. The thought still struck me... I always thought the adage was... "a big, heavy, slow bullet will penetrate farther then a small, light, fast one."

Nor should it surprise anyone that the same bullet will penetrate farther when pushed faster. IF, it's construction allows for that higher velocity. It's the reason my rounds in 45Colt are dependent on which platform I'm loading them for. (I just know some you will cringe at the word, "platform", so that's why I used it... ). The 240JHP for the Colt SAAs are designed for that cartridge and velocity range... the 240JHPs destined for the 1892 Rossi and 1885 are designed for the 45Magnum, not the 45Colt, are loaded to "Ruger" or +P pressures, and have a thicker jacket to withstand an higher impact speed and penetrate. I certainly don't want the bullet to "blow up" on contact with feral hogs...

So far, this is only theory on my part... but I'm pretty sure it's sound, in case I ever get that invite for a free hog hunt!

[tman]

405grn. Green box Remingtons. Hornaday's 325 flex tip. Winchester 300 grn silvertips. All will give the big bears a run for their money.

[TomD]

As fabulous as the 45-70 is for everything from mastodons to squirrels, it would be nice if at least one maker would offer the 50 alaskan in some rifle. I can get an 1886 in demountable, 12" barrel, stainless, blacked out with a muzzle break, and that is just one maker, Chiappa. The 50 is a certainty and pretty much meets even African standards. You want to kill a bear, that is one thing, if you want to stop one, that is another, as with all large dangerous game. (Or so I have heard. We have Polar Bears in my province but I am as likely to see one as a Tarpon in Lake Ontario ).

[JNG]

Well thanks for keeping this alive. With my Sharps, I'm keeping in BP as God made it.

[jeepnik]

Remember one thing. The 45-70 was originally a military cartridge. But, it was not designed to kill a man, although it did admirably. It was designed to kill the horse under the man. Not only does shooting the horse put a man on foot, but you have a very good chance that the man will be seriously injured when the horse goes down, hopefully on top of said man.

Now to take the cartridge into it's civilian uses, remember the largest critters on earth have been taken handily with the 45-70. And this includes large bears.

[Ji in Hawaii]

No bahrs here in the islands (my lucky rabbit's foot keeps them away) but we do have some large ornery boars some I've heard of and even seen that were pushing 600 pounds. The majority of my pigs over the past 40+ years were shot with my 1894 Marlin 44 mag and 240 grain JSPs all one shot drops though honestly my biggest was just a tad over 300.
The only load for my 45-70 (Smelly Nelly my sporter SMLE) is 400 grain hard-cast flat-point @ 1400 FPS, and I'm very confident it'll get the job done should an errant bahr decides he wants to test the power of my rabbit's foot and voyage to my rocky home in the middle of the Pacific. Bahrs beware!

[Les Staley]

You sleeping with one eye open these days, Ji? Ya never know....