BioDiesel

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:51 pm

That 3 litre is okayed for biodiesel. It's cheaper. Some of the diesel around here has 10% mixed in the real fuel....I wonder if I want to save 40 cents a gal??

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:50 pm

In some states that's all you find at the pump. In TX the pump sez "...may contain between 20 & 5% biodiesel by volume."

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:00 am

Griff wrote:In some states that's all you find at the pump. In TX the pump sez "...may contain between 20 & 5% biodiesel by volume."

How about the straight biodiesel? I'm very much inclined not to use it unless it's absolutely necessary.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:38 am

Willie Nelson is backing that stuff. You'll make him happy if you use it.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:57 am

It works. But there are a few downsides. The biggest one is the smell. Get behind a vehicle burning it and depending on the source it will gag you (think rendering plant). While at freeway speeds you may not care, but stuck in traffic or stopped on surface streets you will have to deal with it.

Another downside is that the smell will get into the vehicle and stay there. You may eventually get used to it, but no one will want to ride in your vehicle. It will effect resell value.

Lastly, as you are driving down the road creating odor pollution, folks will look on in disgust and think you are a flaming, liberal, tree hugger. This might be the hardest pill to swallow.

Larkbill · Post by **Larkbill** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:01 am

I think "may contain" are the operative words. Based on what I'm seeing on the mileage readout on my 2015 Freightliner (DD15 and DT12 trans) there is a large variety in fuel composition and quality out there. Such as unexplainable jumps up and down from one tank to the next. A tank from Iowa might do great one week, but poor the next. Most of the time I gross mid 78K to low 79K (our water treatment trailers are heavy) so my load only varies when I haul some of our specialty equipment. Of course then the mileage goes up. We also bobtail a lot, have 'tailed from St. Louis to Billings, Mt. so I'm more concerned about trip average mileage rather than the accumulated. I haven't reset the accumulated since I took delivery in May, at 38K it's showing 7.6 mpg. Trip I just took to Windsor, On. only grossed 51K and even with the time spent getting across the bridge and through customs I had a trip average of 8.2, must have been good fuel because subsequent trip to Chicago with typical load ran 7.9. The week before it struggled to stay over 7 going to east Ky, and even the bobtail mileage coming back was unimpressive. Fuel quality.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:06 am

Larkbill wrote:I think "may contain" are the operative words. Based on what I'm seeing on the mileage readout on my 2015 Freightliner (DD15 and DT12 trans) there is a large variety in fuel composition and quality out there. Such as unexplainable jumps up and down from one tank to the next. A tank from Iowa might do great one week, but poor the next. Most of the time I gross mid 78K to low 79K (our water treatment trailers are heavy) so my load only varies when I haul some of our specialty equipment. Of course then the mileage goes up. We also bobtail a lot, have 'tailed from St. Louis to Billings, Mt. so I'm more concerned about trip average mileage rather than the accumulated. I haven't reset the accumulated since I took delivery in May, at 38K it's showing 7.6 mpg. Trip I just took to Windsor, On. only grossed 51K and even with the time spent getting across the bridge and through customs I had a trip average of 8.2, must have been good fuel because subsequent trip to Chicago with typical load ran 7.9. The week before it struggled to stay over 7 going to east Ky, and even the bobtail mileage coming back was unimpressive. Fuel quality.

Another downside. More for larger vehicles, but it will also have some effect on smaller ones. Something to remember, hydrocarbon (not blends or biodiesel) based fuels quality is pretty tightly regulated. That "may contain" statement allows producers to fudge the numbers, and most take full advantage of it.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:30 am

I only buy fuel from the same chain for my KW, and although I know the fuel comes from different refineries, the quality remains fairly constant. Pulling a box van, weight, wind and my idle time are bigger factors on my fuel economy than bio vs non bio-fuel.

Jeepnik, I can't tell any difference in exh quality, what does STINK are the trucks with the exhaust filter regen systems. This sys traps particles and when a certain restriction level reached, the trapped particles are burned off at very high temps.

wvfarrier · Post by **wvfarrier** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:45 am

I make my own for use on the tractor and my generator

mikld · Post by **mikld** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:58 am

Several years ago the Dept. Of of Water and Power for the city of Los Angeles switched to a biodiesel blend and a few vehicles were set aside for 100% biodiesel. When I left the Dept. 6 years ago, the results were pretty good; cleaner burning, less soot, good mileage (although 80% of the equipment that used that fuel weren't road vehicles,
such as backhoes, "utility" trucks, cranes, etc.). No problems with seals, fuel lines, filters, etc., as some fuels. BTW the shop would smell like Micky D's French fries when someone was tuning/repairing a biodiesel powered piece of equipment.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:16 am

Griff wrote:I only buy fuel from the same chain for my KW, and although I know the fuel comes from different refineries, the quality remains fairly constant. Pulling a box van, weight, wind and my idle time are bigger factors on my fuel economy than bio vs non bio-fuel.

Jeepnik, I can't tell any difference in exh quality, what does STINK are the trucks with the exhaust filter regen systems. This sys traps particles and when a certain restriction level reached, the trapped particles are burned off at very high temps.

You've got that right. But autos don't have the regen systems. They just stink. Out here there a quite a few folks stinking up the roads proudly displaying bumper stickers that they run on bio. I doubt these folks park in their own garages, because if they are attached the whole house would stink.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:49 pm

jeepnik wrote:
Griff wrote:I only buy fuel from the same chain for my KW, and although I know the fuel comes from different refineries, the quality remains fairly constant. Pulling a box van, weight, wind and my idle time are bigger factors on my fuel economy than bio vs non bio-fuel.

Jeepnik, I can't tell any difference in exh quality, what does STINK are the trucks with the exhaust filter regen systems. This sys traps particles and when a certain restriction level reached, the trapped particles are burned off at very high temps.
You've got that right. But autos don't have the regen systems. They just stink. Out here there a quite a few folks stinking up the roads proudly displaying bumper stickers that they run on bio. I doubt these folks park in their own garages, because if they are attached the whole house would stink.

This new 3 liter has a regen system, but with the DEF, it doesn't engage very often. A light is supposed to come on the dash when it does, and in nearly 2000 miles (yea, I love road trips) it has not come on as of yet. There's an outfit down town that has the pure DioDiesel...I might try a tank...well, I'll get nearly empty, and try a 1/4 tank, and see how it runs/smells.

If the smell urinates off my AlphaHotel neighbor lady, it will be well worth it.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:04 pm

AlphaHotel, got to remember that one....

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:58 pm

gamekeeper wrote:AlphaHotel, got to remember that one....

I think I have this right:
That blighter is a rum 'un.....

Larkbill · Post by **Larkbill** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:48 pm

Not sure about the light duty units, large trucks have two different parts to the emission system. The first thing that arrived was the Diesel Particulate Filter, aka DPF. That system traps the particles and when full must be regenerated. Raw diesel fuel is injected and burned off along with the particles at high temp. Just me, but it seems like a waste of time to trap the particles then dump them and fuel on one stretch of road. A truck going through regen looks and smells like an environmental disaster.

After the DPF is the oxidizing catalyst. This unit is the one that is constantly injected with small amounts of Diesel Exhaust Fluid, or DEF. As I understand it this keeps the catalyst bed healthy and free flowing. Mid year 2010 or so is when the catalyst was added, think the filter began in 2007. This is where the really funky smells come from.

One of the guys I worked with at the car dealership ran auto trans fluid (recycled) and cooking oil in his Duramax, older so no cat, he bought a filter system and additives for the cooking oil. It's smells were quite pleasant and the dealership was happy to not pay to have the atf hauled off.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:17 am

BlaineG wrote:
gamekeeper wrote:AlphaHotel, got to remember that one....
I think I have this right:
That blighter is a rum 'un.....

I think only Dick Van Dyke talks like that!....

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:46 am

gamekeeper wrote:
BlaineG wrote:
gamekeeper wrote:AlphaHotel, got to remember that one....
I think I have this right:
That blighter is a rum 'un.....
I think only Dick Van Dyke talks like that!....

Sorry.....If you guys spoke English, it would be easier.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:49 pm

BlaineG wrote:
gamekeeper wrote:
BlaineG wrote:
gamekeeper wrote:AlphaHotel, got to remember that one....
I think I have this right:
That blighter is a rum 'un.....
I think only Dick Van Dyke talks like that!....
Sorry.....If you guys spoke English, it would be easier.

Blaine, some of us are linguistically challenged. I'm lucky if I can speak SoCal American. This foreign language "English" is beyond me.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Sep 01, 2015 2:14 pm

Aye, the thing that separates us the greatest, is our common language! I was pretty lucky, I grew up in a house with a Dad from TN (east at that), a Mom from New Zealand, all of us located in SoCal where they claim they have NO accent! But a neighborhood where a WASP was the minority, so one heard Ebonics outta blacks, Spanglish from the local Hispanics, Spanish from those that were educated, and Mexican from the laborers... if that ain't cross-cultural, I don't know what is!

If it weren't for the "English" speakers in my home, the 10 years of Spanish in school, 2 years of German and 2 years of Latin, I'd never had stood a chance conversing with English speakers from such exotic places like Texas, Louisiana, South Carolina and Georgia! Luckily, my grandmother's TN drawl and slang was pretty universal... I'm completely lost when it comes to NH, ME, or MA and all 5 dialects spoken in NY!

Having been a fan of Robert Burns' poetry, I do ok with both Scotsmen and Irishmen... but those Welsh... and some Londoners... what is it they speak?

Don't get me started on the Canadians... No wonder the Quebecers wanna split off, getting stuck between the Newfies and the uptight Parliament types in Ontario, it's enough to drive a frog mad!

I delivered a load of phone equipment to a factory in Troi Riviers, QC once... the security guard asked me something in French, I asked what he said. He repeated his question again, in French. So I asked, "no comprende, habla Espanol?" For the third time, he asked his question in French. I then said, "ich verstehe sie nichs, vas sagen du?"

Finally, he asked me, "do you speak any English?"

There... how's that for thread drift?

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:18 pm

BlaineG wrote: How about the straight biodiesel? I'm very much inclined not to use it unless it's absolutely necessary.

jeepnik wrote:It works. But there are a few downsides. The biggest one is the smell. Get behind a vehicle burning it and depending on the source it will gag you (think rendering plant). While at freeway speeds you may not care, but stuck in traffic or stopped on surface streets you will have to deal with it.

My hunting buddy on Maui burned straight bio-diesel for several months in his then new Ford F-250 6.0 liter Powerstroke Diesel. Most bio-diesel here in the islands is made from oil from fast food deep friers so his exhaust smelled just like french fries a very pleasant smell to all of us. Only problem was the straight bio-diesel "varnished" up his injectors thus needing replacement of all 8 fuel injectors. Fortunately for him the Ford dealer replaced all under warranty BUT with a promise that he would never again burn straight bio-diesel in this truck again. He won't even burn 10% bio now, he's a straight diesel burner now. I hear the new diesels with all the precise electronically controlled fuel metering is sensitive to straight bio-diesel. The older engines with mechanical fuel injection have no problems. There are several old Mercedes Benz diesel sedans running around here burning straight bio-diesel with no problems whatsoever.

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:32 pm

Griff wrote: Having been a fan of Robert Burns' poetry, I do ok with both Scotsmen and Irishmen... but those Welsh... and some Londoners... what is it they speak?

I had an electrician friend on Maui who was a Scotsman but had lived in Southern California a couple decades before moving to Maui. He lost most of his Scottish brogue except when he got excited... then that Scottish brogue would take over like a man possessed! One day he introduced me to his new hire a young man from Manchester England. We were having lunch the young fellow was happily conversing with us but when he left for a restroom break I turned to my Scottish friend and asked "what was that that he was saying?" Scottish friend shrugged his shoulder and replied "I have no idea". Manchester English is the most difficult English dialect I have ever encountered, makes our Hawaiian Pidgin sound like a midwest newscaster in comparison.

slimster · Post by **slimster** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:42 pm

I think the variables depend on where you bio diesel...or make your own!

BAGTIC · Post by **BAGTIC** » Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:07 pm

Remember that when buying biodiesel or any other biofuel the cost savings is not because it is more efficient or economical. It is because they are exempt from federal and in many locales states taxes. That 40 cents, more or less, savings is one of the reasons your roads are not being properly maintained. Rob Peter to pay and you will be lucky to break even due to increased wear on your vehicles.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:15 am

slimster wrote:I think the variables depend on where you bio diesel...or make your own!

You had to get up pretty oily to think that one up....

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:37 am

Akkkkkkk we pay some of the highest road taxes in the country here, never used bio out of choice, and our roads are some of the absolute worst in the country. Have driven in vast majority of our states highways and CA's freeways will shake the fillings out of your teeth.

Freakin (won't say which party) politicians spend the money on everything BUT the freeways. The only time they repair roads when the current administration gives them "free" chinese money.

If politicians, in ANY state, used all the highway funds, JUST for highways, there would never be potholes.

I said "out of choice" because a few times at the pumps in Oregon, all I could find was 20%. I prefer 100% diesel, but when you are near empty, you get what you get. Here at home, I avoid bio. I would rather not take risks on replacing hard parts on my diesel truck.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sat Oct 03, 2015 12:11 pm

handirifle wrote:Akkkkkkk we pay some of the highest road taxes in the country here, never used bio out of choice, and our roads are some of the absolute worst in the country. Have driven in vast majority of our states highways and CA's freeways will shake the fillings out of your teeth.

Freakin (won't say which party) politicians spend the money on everything BUT the freeways. The only time they repair roads when the current administration gives them "free" chinese money.

If politicians, in ANY state, used all the highway funds, JUST for highways, there would never be potholes.

I said "out of choice" because a few times at the pumps in Oregon, all I could find was 20%. I prefer 100% diesel, but when you are near empty, you get what you get. Here at home, I avoid bio. I would rather not take risks on replacing hard parts on my diesel truck.

They want a super fast train no one will be able to afford to ride (remember what the SST seats cost, it will be the same deal) because it looks good in the papers. Fixing roads is jus so ho hum.
But the real thing is this, you aren't driving on the right roads. Go to areas that are upscale, and we're talking in the same cities and those that are depressed and look at the difference in road condition. Money talks my friend.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:15 am

Bio diesel... hmmm...

isn't that called... "vegetable oil"? Wasn't that what Mr. Diesel actually DESIGNED his engine to run on?... BEFORE the us.gov.epa hacks got involved?

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:58 pm

Old Ironsights wrote:Bio diesel... hmmm...

isn't that called... "vegetable oil"? Wasn't that what Mr. Diesel actually DESIGNED his engine to run on?... BEFORE the us.gov.epa hacks got involved?

That's what I've learned. It was supposed to run on anything....

kfarm · Post by **kfarm** » Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:23 pm

Not to change the subject but I just bought a new tractor, its got that dang DPF tier 4 on it. First time it regened it scared me to death. Lights on the dash came on falshed and all thought the dang thing had gone south on me. Goes through this regen every 15-20 hours and last 20-30 minutes. It's got me watching the hour meter wondering when.

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