What Is A Whitney Phoenix?

[Shrapnel]

I never knew what they were until I saw a couple on the Rock Island Auction. I bid on both, hoping to get one and actually got both. I took the 44-40 out today and shot gophers with it. What good are guns if you don't shoot them...

[Les Staley]

Shrap, your gophers don't really appreciate how privileged they are to be killed with such a rare antique rifle.. I thought my gophers would like to be shot with a Shiloh Hartford model in 45-70, but they weren't impressed..just went several feet in the air and came down certifiable grave yard dead..

[ollogger]

gonna pass on knowing any thing on the guns but they sure are nice!!
so what's the other one chambered in?
the guns were made to shoot & glad to see your putting them too use!!!

ollogger

[yooper2]

Neat! I remember reading about them in one of Mr. DeHass' books but have seen one in the flesh or even another photo outside the one in the book prior to tonight. What is the other one chambered for?


Eric

[Shrapnel]

I bought it thinking it was chambered in 38-40 as it was listed as a 38 CF. When I got it, it will chamber a 38 special. It definitely isn't 38-40. Mike Venturino will be writing an article on it soon, until then I won't know exactly what the chambering is. We need to slug the barrel and check the chamber dimensions before we do anything about firing the gun....

[Malamute]

Ive heard/read of them, but dont think I've ever seen one. Congrats on scoring the pair of nice, interesting old guns!

What does that gopher score in the record books?

I shot a really impressive bull mouse with a 30-30 round ball load, it was stealing my bird seed. Really impressive stopping power with that load.

[cas]

One part High Wall, one part Hepburn, one part Snider?

[yooper2]

I bought it thinking it was chambered in 38-40 as it was listed as a 38 CF. When I got it, it will chamber a 38 special. It definitely isn't 38-40. Mike Venturino will be writing an article on it soon, until then I won't know exactly what the chambering is. We need to slug the barrel and check the chamber dimensions before we do anything about firing the gun....

I look forward to reading that one!

Eric

[piller]

They are quite interesting looking. Congratulations on getting a couple of rare old rifles. Gophers BEWARE!

[Grizz]

kind of a side-wise falling block. -ish?

[Daisyman]

Shrapnel,
I'm with some of the other guys. I've looked at a LOT of guns in my time, but those are a first for me. Really neat guns!
Irv

[Chuck 100 yd]

There were lots of different versions of the earliest breech loaders. That one is similar to the Snider but with a two piece stock. Very cool rifles indeed.

[Panzercat]

Shrap, your gophers don't really appreciate how privileged they are to be killed with such a rare antique rifle.. I thought my gophers would like to be shot with a Shiloh Hartford model in 45-70, but they weren't impressed..just went several feet in the air and came down certifiable grave yard dead..

They were so overjoyed at the privilage that they lept for joy while hugging the incoming round and promptly died of excitement.

[Old Ironsights]

Weren't Whitneys used on the Southern Side by their snipers in the way Sharps were on the North?

[Malamute]

Weren't Whitneys used on the Southern Side by their snipers in the way Sharps were on the North?

Whitworths.

[Marvin S]

I know you said CF but no chance it's 38 RF? Anyway nice looking rifles.

[3leggedturtle]

Shrapnel,
I'm with some of the other guys. I've looked at a LOT of guns in my time, but those are a first for me. Really neat guns!
Irv

+1 Same here. Hope you find out soon what other rifle's cartridge is.

[Sixgun]

That's really interesting. I was baffled so I looked it up in a few old books I have and I'm pretty sure the cartridge is the center fire version of the 38 Long rim fire. Bullet diameter is listed at .375 and the book claims cases can be made from 38 Spl.

Common sense tells me it probably very close to the 38 Long Colt cartridge as it uses a heel bullet.

As you already shot it, what are you using? I'm guessing a .375 diameter heel bullet that will fit in a cut down 38 Spl case over 3 grains of Bullseye or 4 grains of Unique.

Pretty neat....keep us informed .-------6

[Shrapnel]

As you already shot it, what are you using? I'm guessing a .375 diameter heel bullet that will fit in a cut down 38 Spl case over 3 grains of Bullseye or 4 grains of Unique.

Pretty neat....keep us informed .-------6

I haven't shot it. We need to investigate the chamber dimensions and the bore diameter before we so shoot it. One person that had several of these told me that he thought it could be a 38 extra long. We still need to find out what ever it is to get it working...

[Sixgun]

OK, I reread and once again, before I put my brain in gear, I was "assuming" both were in 38 .....the other is a 44-40.

According to Flaydermans, your rifles were made in the 1867-1881 period and the 38 extra long center fire did not come about until 1885 where the 38 long center fire came out in 1875. This last bit of info came from Cartridges of the World.

An easy way to find out whether it's one or the other is to slug the bore. The 38 long was a .375 diameter and the 38 Extra Long used a standard .358 diameter bullet.

Another weird possibility is the 38-45 Stevens and that used a .363 diameter bullet.

A good bet would be the 38 Long as that cartridge was the most popular of the day.

When you have the difference between .358 and .375, a micrometer will tell you what you have without slugging.

One of the coolest things with antique rifles is all the figuring you have to do to make the gun shoot accurate.-----6