Wow!! a .30 cal 170 grain bullet at 2000 fps!!
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- Senior Levergunner
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Wow!! a .30 cal 170 grain bullet at 2000 fps!!
This was Guns 'n' Ammo TV's reaction to a Federal reduced recoil load for the .308 win. They were going on and on about how great the low recoil was.
Do those ballistics sound familiar to anyone else?
You just have to love marketing machines.
Do those ballistics sound familiar to anyone else?
You just have to love marketing machines.
My first attempt at an outdoors website: http://www.diyballistics.com
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- Senior Levergunner
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Re: Wow!! a .30 cal 170 grain bullet at 2000 fps!!
You're forgetting, the .30-30 is chambered mostly in light weight lever guns, and the .308 in bolt guns that are usually a pound or more heavier. The reduced recoil .308 is going to be much more comfortable for a new or young shooter to use. As they gain experience or grow older, they can move up to hotter loads if they feel the need to.Jason_W wrote:This was Guns 'n' Ammo TV's reaction to a Federal reduced recoil load for the .308 win. They were going on and on about how great the low recoil was.
Do those ballistics sound familiar to anyone else?
You just have to love marketing machines.
With 170 grain factory ammo, my .30-30 Model 94 isn't too far behind my .30-06 1903A3 Springfield in recoil. And with the 20" barrel, is probably just as loud. For these reasons, I consider the .30-30 a poor choice for new or young shooters. No need to give your 12 or 13 year old child, or your wife, a flinch. Perfect levergun caliber for them is the .25-35, and I'm suprised Marlin isn't making some 336s in that caliber.
It is funny though that the .30-30 is run down regularly by gun magazines, but this new load is probably just fine for deer in their opinion.
~Michael
- horsesoldier03
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I have an 11 yr old daughter that expresses intrest in hunting and guns as well. We will frequently go shooting together and up until now she has been restricted to .22s and her .410. However, the last time we went shooting, she tried both the 30-30 and my .308. She loved both of them and chose the .308 primarily I think because it had a scope. Naturally I was hesitant, however, her 5 shot group that she kept in a 3" circle proved to me that with my supervision she was ready to step up. She shot 20 rounds that day, although she did complain a little about her arm being sore the following day. I will definately be looking for that reduced load for her. However, I suspect it will be the same as the 30-30s recoil that she already handles.
- deerwhacker444
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I saw that episode this week, I was laughing at the TV. For those of you who didn't see it, it was funny because the Federal "rep" was stating that this 170 gr. bullet was specifically designed to perform in reduced .308 Win. loads.
IT WAS A FLATNOSE 170 gr. 30-30 BULLET THAT THEY LOADED INTO A 308 CASE...! He was trying to get the viewer to think that this was something special that they've come up with. What a farce. Boddington should be ashamed of himself.
"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men
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our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots
to prevent its ruin." Samuel Adams
shall possess the highest seats in Government,
our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots
to prevent its ruin." Samuel Adams
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- Senior Levergunner
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Everyone has to pay bills and put food on the table.deerwhacker444 wrote:
I saw that episode this week, I was laughing at the TV. For those of you who didn't see it, it was funny because the Federal "rep" was stating that this 170 gr. bullet was specifically designed to perform in reduced .308 Win. loads.
IT WAS A FLATNOSE 170 gr. 30-30 BULLET THAT THEY LOADED INTO A 308 CASE...! He was trying to get the viewer to think that this was something special that they've come up with. What a farce. Boddington should be ashamed of himself.
Still, I found it amusing.
My first attempt at an outdoors website: http://www.diyballistics.com
- Old Ironsights
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Waitamminit...
.30/170 at 2000?
And my .357/180 at 1800 is no good for deer?
.30/170 at 2000?
And my .357/180 at 1800 is no good for deer?
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
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- Senior Levergunner
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That's what I like about a lot of these more vintage rounds. They're very frugal in that they don't burn all that much powder.Jeeps wrote:Just goes to show ya that waaaayyy back then folks knew how to "get 'er done"
and didn't "overdo" stuff either. If it did the job then we will use it and love it.
It would be interesting to see how much powder the new federal loading burns compared to a 30/30 at the same velocity.
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- J Miller
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When these reduced power loads came out I laughed. Not because I thought they were funny, but because I thought the marketing gimmick was aimed at wimps and pansies.
My wife is 5'5" and her go to rifle is a Win 94 carbine loaded with full pressure ammo. The recoil of the light carbine never bothers her.
My 10 year old step son ( now over 30) was insulted when I told him he should let me make him some lighter loads for the 30-30 and 303 British. He would have none of it. He too shot full power loads from these guns.
These low recoil rounds are a solution searching for a problem.
Joe
My wife is 5'5" and her go to rifle is a Win 94 carbine loaded with full pressure ammo. The recoil of the light carbine never bothers her.
My 10 year old step son ( now over 30) was insulted when I told him he should let me make him some lighter loads for the 30-30 and 303 British. He would have none of it. He too shot full power loads from these guns.
These low recoil rounds are a solution searching for a problem.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
- gundownunder
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leverbob I dont have your sensibilities.
old iron sights, you should be aware that you are discussing pistol ammo and they are discussing rifle ammo. There is no comparison and you should stick to squirrels and other rodents and stop harrassing game animals with a gun that has no place in the hunting fields.
old iron sights, you should be aware that you are discussing pistol ammo and they are discussing rifle ammo. There is no comparison and you should stick to squirrels and other rodents and stop harrassing game animals with a gun that has no place in the hunting fields.
Bob
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You have got to love democracy-
It lets you choose who your dictator is going to be.
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You have got to love democracy-
It lets you choose who your dictator is going to be.
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- J Miller
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OK, now you did it. That should start something. I think I'll sit back and watch.gundownunder wrote:leverbob I dont have your sensibilities.
old iron sights, you should be aware that you are discussing pistol ammo and they are discussing rifle ammo. There is no comparison and you should stick to squirrels and other rodents and stop harrassing game animals with a gun that has no place in the hunting fields.
J e
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
Doesn't everybody know that before they invented short-mag calibers, those weak 30-30, 35 Remington, or 45-70 bullets just harmlessly bounced off deer? Makes you wonder how anybody managed to get any kind of wild game back in the day! So says my gunsmith every time somebody brings him a short-mag rifle to fix.
And what about gunwriters who say that the 357 and 44 mag rifles are not powerful enough for whitetails, but then turn right around and write articles advocating carrying 44 mag revolvers into "bear country" for "self-defense"?
I have pretty much stopped reading gun magazines. Many of the posts such as found on this website and a few others make far more sense.
And what about gunwriters who say that the 357 and 44 mag rifles are not powerful enough for whitetails, but then turn right around and write articles advocating carrying 44 mag revolvers into "bear country" for "self-defense"?
I have pretty much stopped reading gun magazines. Many of the posts such as found on this website and a few others make far more sense.
Now boys, you know that once you have shortened, fattened, lightened, lengthened, increased, decreased, enlarged, sped up, slowed down, shrunk, spindled, folded and mulitiated every cartridge you can, the business is just gonna dry up.
Please let them have their fun.
While I won't be around to see it, I bet 100 years from now the old .30-30 will still be selling, as will be the '06, 35 Rem, 45-70 and a host of other dead and useless cartridges. And they will still work.
Please let them have their fun.
While I won't be around to see it, I bet 100 years from now the old .30-30 will still be selling, as will be the '06, 35 Rem, 45-70 and a host of other dead and useless cartridges. And they will still work.
- gundownunder
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I hate to burst that bubble but I'm afraid that in 100 years kids will walk around saying " My grandpa told me that in the old days his grandpa used to be able to own guns"I bet 100 years from now the old .30-30 will still be selling,
If i'm wrong I bet you will be right.
Bob
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You have got to love democracy-
It lets you choose who your dictator is going to be.
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It lets you choose who your dictator is going to be.
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- handirifle
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Re: Wow!! a .30 cal 170 grain bullet at 2000 fps!!
Slick13 wrote:You're forgetting, the .30-30 is chambered mostly in light weight lever guns, and the .308 in bolt guns that are usually a pound or more heavier. The reduced recoil .308 is going to be much more comfortable for a new or young shooter to use. As they gain experience or grow older, they can move up to hotter loads if they feel the need to.Jason_W wrote:This was Guns 'n' Ammo TV's reaction to a Federal reduced recoil load for the .308 win. They were going on and on about how great the low recoil was.
Do those ballistics sound familiar to anyone else?
You just have to love marketing machines.
With 170 grain factory ammo, my .30-30 Model 94 isn't too far behind my .30-06 1903A3 Springfield in recoil. And with the 20" barrel, is probably just as loud. For these reasons, I consider the .30-30 a poor choice for new or young shooters. No need to give your 12 or 13 year old child, or your wife, a flinch. Perfect levergun caliber for them is the .25-35, and I'm suprised Marlin isn't making some 336s in that caliber.
It is funny though that the .30-30 is run down regularly by gun magazines, but this new load is probably just fine for deer in their opinion.
~Michael
Well I disagree with that theory, sorry. The 336 marlin weighs 7lbs, according to the web site, and the Savage wood stocked bolt 30-06 weighs......7 lbs. The synthetic stocked one weighs 6.5 lbs. The Rem 700 weighs in at 7.5 lbs average, and I don't think 8 oz will make that much difference to felt recoil.
Add a scope to the marlin and we're at about 8lbs, more when it's loaded.
Besides, you can easily load the 150gr in 30-30 to reduced velocities and have even less recoil and just as much range.
Reduced recoil stuff is a good idea, IF you already have a bolt gun in those calibers.
It's all very good. I hunt with a .375 H&H mag Brno, kicks a bit but I don't have to trail the deer after the shot. Most folks IMHO who fear recoil need to practice a bit more and learn to enjoy their rifles. My Marlin 94 in 357 mag has shown me a more fun side of shooting and I may hunt with a 444 this season. There is such a large "Cool factor" to these beasts that I can't explain.